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Gay marriage - 4/13/2009 10:16:53 PM

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This is political because it is law. So I decided to help kick off this new wing of CM because I can. Consider the facts.

Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce [in how many years, or is it months now ?]. I know alot of divorcees and there is not one of them happy, their lawyers seem to be well adjusted though.

Within that 50% there are many in a hetero marriage with kids, they have a rwal reason to try to stay together. They have joint bank acconts, they get along with one another's Parents, life is grand. Yet they can't make it, they can't seem to stay together.

So now YOU want to do it ? Are you fucking carazy ? C;mon in, there is room for more. You want to face possible alimony or palimoney ? You want to make two local attorneys richer ? Tell you what, go right ahead.

Tell you what, make it legal. Yup. Now you can also take a bite of the shit sandwich.

T

RE: Gay marriage - 4/13/2009 10:31:55 PM

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i don't think anyone goes into marriage with the goal of divorce. Call me a romantic, i guess.

What is desired is the ability to; stay in hospital room with the person you love ( through sickness and in health ), being able to take your mate's last name ( to love and honor ), things like that.

In my heart, i know that love cannot be governed by any law.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/13/2009 11:00:58 PM

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When anti-miscegenation laws were being argued,MLK would point out that races don`t fall in love,individuals fall is love.

The same logic applies here,I think.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/13/2009 11:02:57 PM >

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/13/2009 11:52:48 PM

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It is not a matter of eating a shit sandwich. (I've been divorced twice and I know how much it sucks, but that's not what this is about at all)

Why shouldn't same sex partners that want to be married - be afforded the same rights by law as heterosexual couples that are married?

If you are gay and have been with your partner for 20yrs and they die - you go to carry out their wishes - and the family decides otherwise, well, that's just too fucking bad. You can't claim the body, you can't make any decisions or do anything else unless there was a will in place, and again, the family can fight you for it because you are not legally entitled to do anything for your partner because they were not your 'spouse'.

You cannot legislate love. But because people think of marriage as a 'holy union' instead of a federal and state sanctioned legal union - which is what it really is - things get all mucked up in the moral arguments that everyone who isn't gay keeps bringing up.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Unless of course you are a man that loves another man or a woman that loves another woman.

And I think that is total and complete bullshit.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 12:27:48 AM

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well said, Juliana.. I have friends who have gone through what you described, and frankly, I find it criminal.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 6:25:39 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae

i don't think anyone goes into marriage with the goal of divorce.

that definitely wasn't the goal when i first got married 14yrs ago. yes, i thought it would last forever however things took a downhill turn after my oldest's accident. long story short - will be celebrating 3yrs divorce on May 24.

i know a gay couple who would like to have a marriage certificate for their special day August 11 however they will have to settle for a non-traditional civil union. i see nothing wrong with married gay/lesbian couples receiving the same rights as hetero couples.

edited to add:
this question was today's morning news poll - 51% favored gay marriage while 49% didn't

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 4/14/2009 6:55:12 AM >

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 6:44:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

This is political because it is law. So I decided to help kick off this new wing of CM because I can. Consider the facts.

Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce [in how many years, or is it months now ?]. I know alot of divorcees and there is not one of them happy, their lawyers seem to be well adjusted though.

Within that 50% there are many in a hetero marriage with kids, they have a rwal reason to try to stay together. They have joint bank acconts, they get along with one another's Parents, life is grand. Yet they can't make it, they can't seem to stay together.

As a person who has been advocating the right of marriage for both gay and straight people all my adult life and one who will be another married same sex couple, the actual issue is over having the same rights married heterosexual couples automatically are given. Look at it from this perspective, whether it's in the US or Canada, both are term the land of equal opportunity so why should some be more equal than others? To put quite bluntly, denying equal rights, including the right to marry, smacks of blatant segregation and the last time I check segregation is illegal.

So now YOU want to do it ? Are you fucking carazy ? C;mon in, there is room for more. You want to face possible alimony or palimoney ? You want to make two local attorneys richer ? Tell you what, go right ahead.

I know for may people, they find it almost impossible to believe but two women or two men can love their S/O just as deeply as yours or my parents do. Our purpose in wanting to marry or same sex lover is not to gamble that we will not become another statistic. We want a damn good solid assurance that our spouse will be accorded the same rights and privileges straight couples have, such as:
inheritance rights
medical power of attorney
power of attorney
survivor benefits
job security
right to adoption
immigration rights
tax benefits

Tell you what, make it legal. Yup. Now you can also take a bite of the shit sandwich.

T

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 9:30:35 AM

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From what I can make out the only objection to gay marriage is that homosexuals and lesbians don't fuck like straight people do, which in turn to my mind is the sexualization and fetishization of marriage and total blasphemy of everything the institution of marriage is supposed to represent.

This wouldn't be so bad if the heterosexuals weren't so bloody anal about it.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 9:39:47 AM

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forgive me cause I havent read the thread just saw this going by. Actually most people who were against prop 8 were afraid it'd devalue marriage and make a mockery of it, and that it'd teach kids to be homosexuals, and that the'd have no say against stuff about homosexuals being taught in public schools. And of course you've got the people who're just plane biggeted and don't want to see any one but those they view as normal, having anything that main stream does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

From what I can make out the only objection to gay marriage is that homosexuals and lesbians don't fuck like straight people do, which in turn to my mind is the sexualization and fetishization of marriage and total blasphemy of everything the institution of marriage is supposed to represent.

This wouldn't be so bad if the heterosexuals weren't so bloody anal about it.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 9:54:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

forgive me cause I havent read the thread just saw this going by. Actually most people who were against prop 8 were afraid it'd devalue marriage and make a mockery of it, and that it'd teach kids to be homosexuals, and that the'd have no say against stuff about homosexuals being taught in public schools. And of course you've got the people who're just plane biggeted and don't want to see any one but those they view as normal, having anything that main stream does.

Yet why is it that people can not understand that the institute of marriage will always survive? Plus it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that homosexuality is not learned, if that was the case then heterosexuality is also learned which it isn't. From a biological POV, sexuality in mammals is a biological function, not a learned behavior. I don't know where this flawed concept of what is normal sexuality and what isn't (concerning gay sex and straight sex) when there is no base line to compare with.

Maybe of people weren't so damn concerned about how two men or two women have sex then maybe we'd can focus on things which are more important. I know the heterosexual oriented population sure would hate it if we fags were so obsessed with their sexual practices.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 4/14/2009 9:57:12 AM >

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 10:08:33 AM

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Pray how can you teach someone to be a homosexual? Oh right, there's the 'one up the bum' method but marriage isn't all about fornication and sex..

It's practically the same objection as there is to gender recognition, it's all centred on genitalia and sexual organs, there's more to a guy than his dick, more to a woman than her pussy, and a whole lot more to love than boy meets girl.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 10:10:48 AM

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Good responses, but Stella, you gave me a chuckle - weren't so anal about it ? LOL.

I guess I understand, but probably never will fully. I can't imagine being gay, looking at a Man as I now look at a Woman. It is indeed a foreign concept to me, but so is eating raw fish. The best part of my education on the subject came from a gay guy, he was our customer and we did about a hundred grand worth of work to his house. He is a city councilman now and proudly displays the "fag flag" in his yard.

This was a very interesting conversation, he explained that he looks at a Man that way, but does not see Women that way. And there is not a damn thing he can do about it.

But that was not the point, which is that piece of paper is not all it is cracked up to be. Maybe the real solution is to make divorce illegal, then people will really think twice before jumping the broom, and I mean everybody. Of course this would put a bunch of lawyers out of business, sorry.

Think of it, a marriage is a life sentence, no way out. After all that's what the vows generally say is it not ? Just make it so people are not allowed to break their word. Put that into the equation and things will change in a hurry. Maybe the world would not be in such a lousy state right now. People actually held by law to their promises.

Go ahead and extoll the virtues of that piece of paper, I am not refuting that at all, it's just that IMO the disadvantages outwiegh the advantages. For all I care you can marry a goat, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

All I know is I have never seen a good divorce, and rarely do I see a marriage that went the long haul and it was actually "till death do us part". Yes a few, but very few.

T

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 10:16:21 AM

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Yet it's not for the worth of that piece of paper but for the benefits which that piece of paper signifies. And for many, the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 4/14/2009 10:17:14 AM >

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 10:50:13 AM

hlen5

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Some people who have objections to gay marriage actually BELIEVE it is a CHOICE to desire the same sex, rather than desire being hardwired in each individual. So if it's just a choice to love the same sex, well then you can change your mind, can't you (Just to be very clear, it's not what I believe)?!

I think it's a crime that same-sex partners don't enjoy the same rights and privileges of hetero couples.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 11:28:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Good responses, but Stella, you gave me a chuckle - weren't so anal about it ? LOL.

I guess I understand, but probably never will fully. I can't imagine being gay, looking at a Man as I now look at a Woman. It is indeed a foreign concept to me, but so is eating raw fish. The best part of my education on the subject came from a gay guy, he was our customer and we did about a hundred grand worth of work to his house. He is a city councilman now and proudly displays the "fag flag" in his yard.

This was a very interesting conversation, he explained that he looks at a Man that way, but does not see Women that way. And there is not a damn thing he can do about it.

But that was not the point, which is that piece of paper is not all it is cracked up to be. Maybe the real solution is to make divorce illegal, then people will really think twice before jumping the broom, and I mean everybody. Of course this would put a bunch of lawyers out of business, sorry.

Think of it, a marriage is a life sentence, no way out. After all that's what the vows generally say is it not ? Just make it so people are not allowed to break their word. Put that into the equation and things will change in a hurry. Maybe the world would not be in such a lousy state right now. People actually held by law to their promises.

Go ahead and extoll the virtues of that piece of paper, I am not refuting that at all, it's just that IMO the disadvantages outwiegh the advantages. For all I care you can marry a goat, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

All I know is I have never seen a good divorce, and rarely do I see a marriage that went the long haul and it was actually "till death do us part". Yes a few, but very few.

T

Term didn't some bright guy,in response to that asinine prop8 of protecting the sanctity of marriage...actually try and put something like that on the next ballot.Capitol idea if you ask me,after all the biggest threat to mariage is and allways will be divorce.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 11:32:24 AM

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Yanno, I read one of the most intelligent articles on gay marriage ever, last week in the local newspaper. The young man that wrote it is the son of two women that have been together for 30ish years.

His solution was to remove marriage from the legal system altogether. Make the legal aspects of ALL partnerships a civil union. NO ONE gets married except as a strictly religious ceremony, IF that is what they desire. That way, no legal claim that us perverts are sullying the sanctity of their holy matrimony.

You want to be a legal S.O., you gotta get a civil union. You want marriage........deal with it in the privacy of your faith and your church.

Made some sense. That silly boy.........the nerve!! Making sense.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 11:46:25 AM

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I accept your marriage proposal. ;-)

I could not be more flattered.

...seriously, a dude with the traits the Term has is a good catch.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 1:04:21 PM

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I really wish people would research that 50% bullshit before using it.

I'll state it again. The 50% of all marriages end in divorce statistic is inaccurate. This refers to a longitudinal study that divides the number of marriages from one year by the number of divorces of that same year or within a set of years (normally 5). Meaning, the people who got married 20 years ago don't have their marriage count but their divorce does. These types of studies do not accurately portray realized statistics.

Cross-sectional studies show that less than 20% of all marriages end in divorce. That means these individuals follow a group of marriages from beginning to end.... meaning other people's fuck ups and gains don't skew the the numbers. This statistic is the statistic that most individuals will realize in their lifetimes.

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 1:18:36 PM

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I also believe the sanctity of marriage can not be degraded by outsiders, hell people degrade their marriages all the time, by lying and cheating and spousal abuse, and the people who're all for "maintaining the sanctity of marriage" Don't rail about those issues. but I think that's a whole nother can of worms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Yet why is it that people can not understand that the institute of marriage will always survive?

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RE: Gay marriage - 4/14/2009 2:10:02 PM

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Wow Boijen,so what your telling me is that when I got divorced,I not only beat the odds(you should have met my wife) I cashed in on a long shot....yippie!!!!!!

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