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RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns?


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RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? - 4/17/2009 11:25:55 AM   
kiwisub12


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Passion comes from fear - fear of upsetting your own little stable universe.
For instance, if gay marriage is legalised, then for a lot of hard liners their own marriage is devalued since they look down on gay people as being evil. If gay marriage is legal, then the "evil" ones are the same as , or equal to themselves.

They have a stake in keeping the status quo. If it is unbalanced, then they are compelled to rethink their universe, and all the ramifications that go with it. If one tenent of their universe is wrong, what else could be wrong and they don't know it yet.  To stop that happening, they have to impose or convince everyone else that their way is the right way, and anything else is wrong, evil and should be spurned.

Now , change gay marriage to any thing else that they may believe, and you can get fear and loathing for any idea that someone may feel strongly about.
At some level it is seen as an attack on their beliefs - and the way to handle an attack is to fight back - hard.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? - 4/17/2009 2:31:40 PM   
Vendaval


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Only if they can pass a firearms safety test and wear relfective clothing when out in the brush. 

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? - 4/17/2009 5:07:26 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Okay this is a Thread I wanted to do for a LONG time but always thought that this would end up in Random Stupidity or Deleted outright.

I seriously want to discuss the HEAT of a discussion. Why is it that when Religion or Radical Right or Communist Left or Guns or which President screwed up America Most gets discussed it is always a matter of who is right and who is wrong?

I am a Fairly Conservative guy I think most people know this. I really don't care about Gay Marriage, if you wanna marry fine you deserve to lose half your shit in a divorce just like the rest of us. I don't care about Gay's in the Millitary I kinda want the guy who's covering my ass to be someone attracted to it. I don't care about people who own Assult Rifles or Gernades. I don't care if Big Brother listens in on my phone calls cause I got nothing to hide. I don't care is animals are used for testing if it means that a human being won't be hurt from a product. I think PETA needs to calm down a bit, but I don't think that what they are trying to do is a bad thing I just think they should stop being hypocritical about it. I think Bush was a Horrible President but I don't think he was the worst and if you do maybe you need to do some History Homework. I don't think Obama is gunna Fix the economy in fact I think just as he leaves the white house we will be in the worst position we have ever been in.

HOWEVER, all of these things are opinions and you are welcome to have ones that are different than mine. My Question is why is it so important that you point out that my belief is wrong because yours is right?

You got Facts that prove your point? I got facts that prove mine. There is ever Mathamatical Proof none of us actually exist (Douglas Adams ROCKS)

The Question is what Fuels the Passion?

Look forward to discussing this.

Steel


Drink less....post even less when you drink.

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RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? - 4/17/2009 5:27:58 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
The Question is what Fuels the Passion?

Bitter experience. 

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RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? - 4/17/2009 5:58:25 PM   
FullCircle


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The PETA thing is a good example of the varying extremes of views because there are extremes of belief in that some say nothing should be tested on animals whereas more moderate people have said testing on animals is fine for medicines etc.

The question is: would we even recognise testing of cosmetics on animals as abhorrent today without the campaigning by people we considered as having extreme views in the past? Now we consider those that think testing of cosmetics on animals as good as the ones holding extreme views. I think that is a positive switch that wouldn't have occurred without a few people pointing out the needless suffering going on. 

Testing of drugs on animals is more tricky and it needs to be attacked from a different direction in terms of the arguments put forward. You will never win by weighing up the rights of animals against those of humans, instead you must ask how effective is such testing and are their better alternatives that will give more reliable results.

You’d think a scientist would know so you’d probably be surprised to learn there is a real split on even that issue. The problem is we all follow certain methodology because this is the way it has always been done, without trying alternatives. We test drugs on animals but how do we know this has saved human suffering i.e. has there been testing of drugs on humans first to act as a control and establish how many humans could die if we cut out the animal testing. It’s simply just the way we’ve always done things and how you could even begin to estimate how many lives testing drugs on humans saves is beyond my understanding.

Testing on animals also doesn’t prevent severe reactions to drugs even testing on humans doesn’t guarantee all humans will not have a severe reaction to drugs. We can probably only establish how effective animal testing is in saving lives by not having it for a while.


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RE: Should Bar Mitzpha'd Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? - 4/17/2009 7:14:13 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

The Question is what Fuels the Passion?


Each of us has a vision of how an ideal world ought to be designed, and it is this vision that forms the basis of our sociopolitical ideology. For each of us, our unique vision of this ideal world is shaped by the peculiarities of our own individual personalities - our sense of altruism, our desire for personal financial security, our concern for the safety of our children, our concern for the well-being of the children of total strangers, our desire to see justice visited upon transgressors, our sense of practicality and pragmatism, our own individual willingness to make personal sacrifices for what we perceive to be the common good, and a hundred other things all go into how we define a Perfect World.
...


But I don't.

I don't have anything like a vision of how an ideal world ought to be designed. 

Despite having spent a bunch of time with utopian fiction, I don't recall ever having seriously spent any time trying to conceive of an ideal world (nor spent time considering some ideal world vision which had cropped up as if spontaneously.) To write--or read--utopian fiction is for me just a potentially clever way of reflecting on the a-topian world I occupy.

What comes to mind as I try to conceive of conceiving of such a thing is this: the image of a child trimming and trimming and trimming her bangs until she ends up with a crooked little bit of almost nothing with which to frame the gap-toothed grimace she will probably soon be showing to her mom.

Shifting gears here: can we look at the notion of Ideal World from the following angle for a moment?

Can we agree that any world which can exist only in one's imagination is less ideal than any world in which people can actually walk around and interact? [Apologies to Anselm]

I want to highlight this because while it may be that an occaisional tyke might manage to get her bangs right, there is overwhelming evidence that every single effort to forge an ideal worl, by absolutely anyone or any group, throughout all of time, has failed.

My suggestion being that your imaginary ideal world--as well as any one I might come up with--is, according to all available empirical evidence, incapable of existence

Unless of course, the world we're in, with all its tribulations, is The Ideal World. [apologies to Leibniz, I suppose]

Those other ancient philosophers, Becker and Fagen, offered: "Any world that I'm welcome to is better than the one I come from," which is a fine line of poetry. It depicts an emotional place in which we very well may find ourselves. I just don't think its usefulness extends to, say, inspiring the design of a new, ideal world.

The song may even allude to this with its reference near the end to a "vision of a child returning".

This world, as near as I can tell, is the only one I'm welcome to. It is mutable, but only so much. It is not a ball of clay I can mold. I can't redesign physics, biology or human nature.

What I can do, if fallibly, is to mold, over time, my responses to that which The One World presents me with. I do spend some time thinking about and working toward what might be ideal in that regard.

But as for visions of How The Ideal World Ought To Be Designed, well, something else altogether must form the basis of my socioplolitical ideology. That is, if I have a sociopolitical ideology, which I kind of also doubt..

So, Panda. Do you think that A.) I'm the exception who proves your rule? Or do you think that B.) your rule, or anyway proclamation (see snipped paragraph atop this post) might need some revising? If neither then I'd be pleased to read about choice C.) of your own design.

Thanks











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RE: Should Confirmed Gay Catholic Preists Own Guns? - 4/17/2009 7:38:38 PM   
SteelofUtah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Drink less....post even less when you drink.



Glad to say that on July 13th it will have been 5 years since I touched a Drug or had a Drop.

Even when I did Drink I was a Silly Drunk often ending up being asked to just sit down or find a corner and take a nap.

But thanks for the Input.

Steel

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