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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 8:12:03 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I would not want a relationship with someone that wanted an intimate relationship with
a stranger, in this day and age.
 
I can't help thinking that, a while ago, the mere phrase 'intimate relationship with a stranger' would have been seen as a contradiction in terms.  How can one be intimate with a stranger?  Likewise, Shakti's use of the phrase 'disposable relationship'.  This points to why these things aren't supposed to happen.  They feel bad because, in terms of 'emotional logic', they make no sense.



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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 9:59:10 AM   
ShaktiSama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

 Where you find the impossibility to distinguish the two illogical, I see it as not being ruled by physical sex.  Just because some can not make the distinction does not mean that there aren't some of us who can.


I didn't say you or any one else couldn't make the distinction.  But I see the division as an essentially arbitrary one.  By this I do not mean it is illogical--it actually makes perfect sense, especially if you're married to a man who takes care of everything else.

In the vast majority of cases I have seen where a woman make this division, she is able to do things this way because she is in a stable marriage or long-term relationship with a primary partner who fulfills the bulk of her emotional, physical and even economic needs.  Even Akasha has a husband who takes care of her more "human" side 24/7, freeing her to play rougher with more casual boytoys.  TammyJo is married, you are married, Wickad is married, MsStarlett is married--we starting to see a pattern at all here?    I think the only person I've met here who doesn't have sex with her submissives and isn't married is LadyH, and I believe she's said that she just prefers to get those itches scratched by non-marital partners who are co-dominant or vanilla.

I'm not judging at all, I'm just pointing out the pattern I see.  There appears to be a web of emotional and sexual relationships that makes these divisions possible; most dommes who do not have sex with their submissives, are having sex with other men and are essentially polyandrous in their daily lives. 






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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 10:00:22 AM   
aidan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Shatki, I'm afraid we have found, yet again, another area in life where we do not agree.  Where you find the impossibility to distinguish the two illogical, I see it as not being ruled by physical sex.  Just because some can not make the distinction does not mean that there aren't some of us who can.

While I get where you are coming from about having the fall back of sex and intimacy with a primary partner, therefore not needing it to be fulfilled through D/s, I would have to say that it misses the mark.  My first D/s dynamic was neither disposable, nor sexual.  Only half of the two years that I've had clip as a submissive has My husband actually been in the same house for.  I have very little issue being celibate by choice.

Yes, the sadism in this is a great equalizer.  I won't deny that.  S/m is sexual to some.  In fact, it can be for Me, but it's not necessarily so.  What you give in the above example about worshiping another Dominants boots could be linked just as quickly to loyalty and devotion, as it could to sexuality.  Some people see submission the way some see sex.  That it should belong where it has been promised.



I think the problem here, Lady Pact, is that the term "arbitrary" is being connected to the term "illogical", and that's not a viable interpretation I feel.

While arbitrary can mean "capricious or unreasonable", the more common definition (at least academically) is "subject to individual will or judgment." Meaning that a thing is not compelled to be one way or the other except by an individual or group's feelings about said thing.

In that way, the sexuality of BDSM is entirely arbitrary.

For myself, I fall into the camp of BDSM being an inherently sexual thing. Like Mistress' example, I would feel like I was cheating on Her if I was to engage in BDSM activities with another person (at least, in general. If She was involved in some way or had ordered it or there was some kind of polyamorous situation, etc., etc., but these criteria are fairly remote).

Also the suggestion that Dominants with non-submissive primary partners are looking for disposable relationships is a misinterpretation. While I can see why you would disagree with Her saying that such polyamorous relationships require compartmentalization, that is all She was saying. The portion about disposable men and women was in regards to those who don't seek any kind of friendship or "getting to know you" phase for BDSM.


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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 10:02:14 AM   
ShaktiSama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
They feel bad because, in terms of 'emotional logic', they make no sense.


Perhaps the logic doesn't work because you're holding it up in terms of the wrong set of emotions?  Lust and the will to dominate are not automatically and always connected to other emotions, like the need for companionship and the thirst for love.  I have certainly separated them myself in the past.


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 10:47:07 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I can only separate them to a certain degree.  When I was in my teens and early twenties I thought that I wanted solely to bonk and everything else was so much baggage.  But I realised I wasn't, and never could be, James Bond - much as my ego and vanity demanded that.  I was unable to have said bonks without feeling  emotional attachments too.  It was a drain on my energies, and ultimately depressing.  Splitting up made me feel empty and the world go grey.  I don't want to do that anymore unless the woman feels to me as though she's worth it in the first place.   Believe it or not, I see most of this in terms of a kind of psychic cost/ benefit calculus. 

I can satisfy lust quite easily without any attendant emotional costs by means of regular and energetic visits to Mrs Palmer.  She's always willing and accommodating - and pops right off to sleep after we've finished.  She doesn't lie in the bed frowning pensively and asking me where I see the relationship going. She doesn't even ask 'What are you thinking?".  Bliss. 

Funnily enough, it's only very recently that I've come to imagine - just vaguely as yet - the possibility of D/s 'playtime' with a woman with whom I'm not in a partnership but with whom I have a good friendship.  Maybe it's my age; maybe it's because things are different in the D/s world.  But that's just theory so far.  It could hurt me to try to put it into practice.  I don't know. 


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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 10:48:35 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Hmmm...  how expensive is a ticket to the UK these days?

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 10:54:58 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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Status: offline 		No worries, Lady Hib - I'll just despatch one of my private jets to pick you up. 

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 11:27:36 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

I didn't say you or any one else couldn't make the distinction.  But I see the division as an essentially arbitrary one.  By this I do not mean it is illogical--it actually makes perfect sense, especially if you're married to a man who takes care of everything else.

In the vast majority of cases I have seen where a woman make this division, she is able to do things this way because she is in a stable marriage or long-term relationship with a primary partner who fulfills the bulk of her emotional, physical and even economic needs.  Even Akasha has a husband who takes care of her more "human" side 24/7, freeing her to play rougher with more casual boytoys.  TammyJo is married, you are married, Wickad is married, MsStarlett is married--we starting to see a pattern at all here?    I think the only person I've met here who doesn't have sex with her submissives and isn't married is LadyH, and I believe she's said that she just prefers to get those itches scratched by non-marital partners who are co-dominant or vanilla.

I'm not judging at all, I'm just pointing out the pattern I see.  There appears to be a web of emotional and sexual relationships that makes these divisions possible; most dommes who do not have sex with their submissives, are having sex with other men and are essentially polyandrous in their daily lives. 


Ah, I knew My ears were burning. 

I absolutely agree with your distinction.  I believe I pointed it out in a prior response that answers were going to vary due to a person's relationship status and whether that person was monogamous.  I'm not denying at all that it's easier not to put sexual pressures on the D/s dynamic *if* sexual desires are being fulfilled elsewhere.  I think that would tend to stand true whether D/s were involved in multiple relationships or not.  Most people engaged in a healthy sex life don't view sex as a 'need' if they are pursuing others. 


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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 11:48:53 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan
I think the problem here, Lady Pact, is that the term "arbitrary" is being connected to the term "illogical", and that's not a viable interpretation I feel.

While arbitrary can mean "capricious or unreasonable", the more common definition (at least academically) is "subject to individual will or judgment." Meaning that a thing is not compelled to be one way or the other except by an individual or group's feelings about said thing.

In that way, the sexuality of BDSM is entirely arbitrary.

For myself, I fall into the camp of BDSM being an inherently sexual thing. Like Mistress' example, I would feel like I was cheating on Her if I was to engage in BDSM activities with another person (at least, in general. If She was involved in some way or had ordered it or there was some kind of polyamorous situation, etc., etc., but these criteria are fairly remote).

Also the suggestion that Dominants with non-submissive primary partners are looking for disposable relationships is a misinterpretation. While I can see why you would disagree with Her saying that such polyamorous relationships require compartmentalization, that is all She was saying. The portion about disposable men and women was in regards to those who don't seek any kind of friendship or "getting to know you" phase for BDSM.



It's good to see you posting, aidan.  We don't get enough of a chance to see you around here these days.

To comment on what you've said, I'm going to have to rely on what TammyJo said that I was neglectful in expressing Myself in the prior posts.  That being, the definition of friend in the first place. 

Friend is a term I don't just slap around lightly.  In most cases, by the time I actually consider someone a friend, if we had both been available, I'd have already known whether I want a D/s dynamic with that person or not.  Yes, I am one of those evil women who will resign someone to the 'friend zone' that males have been known to complain about.  Friendship holds a very high value for Me.  Once a person is there, I don't tend to see them in other ways.  There have been exceptions, of course, but not the norm.

Friendship, as opposed to "getting to know you" are two entirely different things in My book.


Edited because I hit ok too quickly.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 4/24/2009 11:52:22 AM >

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 1:29:47 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
It was a drain on my energies, and ultimately depressing. 


I would agree, although in my case there was no splitting up to cause distress. It was simply the lack of deeper interaction and fulfillment which left a nagging sense of emptiness, and the knowledge that sex could be so much more that took some of the savour out of every experience.

I eventually came to the conclusion that I was not being made happy with that kind of sexual interaction, although it was interesting and educational for a brief period.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 1:34:29 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		It was simply the lack of deeper interaction and fulfillment which left a nagging sense of emptiness, and the knowledge that sex could be so much more that took some of the savour out of every experience.
 
Yep, I can relate to that.



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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 1:39:07 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Le Sigh.  So I should stop thinking about looking for a FB, right? 

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 1:46:27 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I don't know, Lady Hib.  For the second time this week, I've no idea what you're talking about.  Sorry. 

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 1:48:56 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		"Fuckbuddy", sweetheart. 

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 1:50:52 PM   
SnowRanger


Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline 		WRONG!  WRONG!  WRONG!  Okay, that a way over broad generalization.  I did get your attention though didn't I?

So many Mistresses start out their profiles by calling men "piggy," or "scum," or "loser" (although many of them spell it "looser").  Then we are told how we don't deserve to be anywhere near Her Magnificent Self."  This is the tone set by many Mistresses right at the out set.

Maybe it's not just us guys wanking.

Myself?  I'm with Lockit!  I see my submission as a sign of my deepest respect.  I wamt to know that the woman that receives it is worth of it.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 1:53:00 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Honestly, Mike, how many of those "lowly scum" shouters are really dominants?  Plenty of them are pros, that line is always lucrative (pity I could never indulge it myself...) 

Whenever some stranger offers up ownership in the first conversation, I know that he is not interested in ME, just in a DomBot. 

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 2:02:31 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Le Sigh.  So I should stop thinking about looking for a FB, right? 


Well, for a start, you have competition, Lady Hib.  I see that SomethingCatchy is reading and I know that she loves me insanely.  Here's the proof - a post on another forum:

Actually to be honest, when I first saw peons picture on these forums I was completely disgusted and turned off because I thought "great, another moron showing off". I judged the book by the cover from first impressions, but I've found out he isn't all that bad.

You see?  You'd better hope you can fight better than her.

But, seriously - I'm beginning to think that an FB isn't someone with whom one has a superficial, empty and depressing, relationship, nor can an FB fairly be compared to a long-term 'husband-and-wife' style relationship.  It's a third category; a category all of its own category - and maybe a good one.  Maybe. 

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 2:05:22 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		It was years ago, when I actually had one...  but they are harder to find now, maybe because I am older!  Plus, I am into the whole "buddy" aspect as well these days, so just showing up for a bit of wham bam and back home isn't madly thrilling. 

I am reasonably certain that I can fight better than Something Catchy because I am meaner.  I had to learn to be mean, so I have more mad skillz than folks who are just born that way.  Or was that not the kind of fighting you meant? 

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 2:10:14 PM   
SnowRanger


Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline 		I am reliably informed that I need an FB myself

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/24/2009 2:13:09 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		ROFL SnowRanger!

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Profile   Post #: 60
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