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Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida link - 4/24/2009 10:29:55 PM

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Another reason to prosecute the tortuers... using torture to create false intel.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.

Such information would've provided a foundation for one of former President George W. Bush's main arguments for invading Iraq in 2003. In fact, no evidence has ever been found of operational ties between Osama bin Laden's terrorist network and Saddam's regime.

The use of abusive interrogation — widely considered torture — as part of Bush's quest for a rationale to invade Iraq came to light as the Senate issued a major report tracing the origin of the abuses and President Barack Obama opened the door to prosecuting former U.S. officials for approving them.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney and others who advocated the use of sleep deprivation, isolation and stress positions and waterboarding, which simulates drowning, insist that they were legal.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration.

"There were two reasons why these interrogations were so persistent, and why extreme methods were used," the former senior intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity.

"The main one is that everyone was worried about some kind of follow-up attack (after 9/11). But for most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there."
It was during this period that CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly — Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 — according to a newly released Justice Department document.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 7:26:06 AM

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I wonder if the Obama administration intends to continuously leak various state secrets to the media as a smokescreen or as cover for Obama's shocking incompetence...

This is becoming... somewhat predictable.

Chrysler goes under? The headlines read, "BUSH WASN'T NICE TO TERRORISTS!!!"

Unemployment hits 20%? Headlines: "BUSH STRIPPED TERRORISTS OF SOME OF THEIR RIGHTS!!!"

And so on...

Remember when it was criminal to out someone at the CIA. Remember those days? Now, it seems the heroic thing to do...

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 7:54:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I wonder if the Obama administration intends to continuously leak various state secrets to the media as a smokescreen or as cover for Obama's shocking incompetence...

State secrets?

Who exactly were they a secret from?

The whole world has known about this for the last five years.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:02:05 AM

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You don't know that the Obama administration is declassifying and releasing secret memos, and other information?

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:06:52 AM

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Seems to me that all the torture was to vindicate bush for lying/duping into invading Iraq,not protect Americans as the bushies want to claim.

Historically,torture is used to extract false confessions.

Here, it was used to extract false information.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:11:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You don't know that the Obama administration is declassifying and releasing secret memos, and other information?

Do you know that everything being released may add some details, but there is nothing that has not already been public knowledge for years?

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:12:50 AM

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I always thought that waterboarding someone 83 times in one month speaks of the desperation on the part of interrogators.

That would be just under three times a day if carried out seven days a week and just over three times a day allowing for two days off per week.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 4/25/2009 8:19:10 AM >

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:18:51 AM

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So you think this is just sensationalism on Obama's part. You're saying that there is no real substance here... that Obama is using the office for political attacks against his predecessor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Do you know that everything being released may add some details, but there is nothing that has not already been public knowledge for years?

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:24:31 AM

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Extracting false confessions under torture? IIRC, that's the first time that was sanctioned by the state since the Salem witch trials.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:27:30 AM

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The willful ignorance exhibited by some on the right is truly a marvel to behold.Lets banter about declassification of troubling memo's..Let's ignore the content of said memos,because they don't fit with our preconcieved notions.
Or perhaps the content doesn't matter to some......could that really be the case.Some just don't care?

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:27:35 AM

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Yeah... according to two unnamed sources.

How much credence would you give to two unnamed sources if they were saying something bad about Obama?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Extracting false confessions under torture? IIRC, that's the first time that was sanctioned by the state since the Salem witch trials.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:29:03 AM

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:30:43 AM

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Selective caring...

As in, the Clintons had people sent off to foreign countries be tortured, but that's not front page material.

Leaking Plame's name was serious - but gutting the entire CIA is downright patriotic.

And so on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The willful ignorance exhibited by some on the right is truly a marvel to behold.Lets banter about declassification of troubling memo's..Let's ignore the content of said memos,because they don't fit with our preconcieved notions.
Or perhaps the content doesn't matter to some......could that really be the case.Some just don't care?

< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/25/2009 8:31:14 AM >

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:37:48 AM

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Gutting?

They are very happy with Obama.

Things at the CIA are getting better,not worse as cons seem to imagine.

bush will go down in history as the only president to commit espionage.

Have fun defending that.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 8:46:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Gutting?

They are very happy with Obama.

Things at the CIA are getting better,not worse as cons seem to imagine.

bush will go down in history as the only president to commit espionage.

Have fun defending that.

Owner, I don't know about that. I seem to remember something about China and missile guidance systems, "Loral Corp", Bernard Schwartz"- "friend of Bill."
Ring any bells?

P.S. and then there was something about Clinton giving N. Korea $2B of our Tax Dollars for a nuclear reactor.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/25/2009 8:58:14 AM >

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 9:03:02 AM

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80% of that technology transfer was under the 1st president Bush.

Question.Why were we hiring the Chinese to lunch our payloads,in the 1st place!?!?!

WTF is that about?!?!

And then the cons turn around and lay it all at Clinton`s feet.

I`ll never forgive the GOP for helping bin-laden by distracting the president,leading up to 9/11.

Their reaction to president Clinton trying to kill bin-laden? "No War For Monica!"

Ring a bell?

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 9:07:28 AM

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quote:

Obama Administration to Release Detainee Abuse Photos; Former CIA Official Says Former Colleagues 'Don't Believe They Have Cover Anymore'

...some experts say the move could have a chilling effect on the CIA even beyond President Obama's decision last week to release the so-called "torture memos."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/04/obama-adminis-3.html

< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/25/2009 9:11:30 AM >

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 9:13:47 AM

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A blog?

Get serious.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 9:20:50 AM

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ABC News Senior White House Correspondent Jake Tappe.

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RE: Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida ... - 4/25/2009 9:23:22 AM

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I don't think I said any of those things.

What I will say though is the Bush administration put us in the position of being condemned as human rights violators, so how will anyone take us seriously when we try to speak out against human rights violations in countries like China.

Bush also put us in an untenable position with his doctrine of preemptive war. How can we now seriously condemn a nation invading another when, for the first time in our history, we did the same, on grounds that since have been proven false.

(in reply to Sanity)

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