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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:08:54 PM

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Solid proof: DNA evidence

DNA evidence is one of the biggest distractions from actual justice, that DNA could have got there many different ways but in the eyes of the jury it is always seen as irrefutable proof

. DNA should not ever be the sole evidence for prosecution IMO.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:11:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard
We only execute people as a punishment because we all think everyone fears death,

Really? And you base that premise of "what everyone thinks," on what exactly?

Well you describe it as a punishment and people fear punishment don't they? What good a punishment without fear?

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:12:16 PM

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Hmm...so what should be done about serial killers, serial rapists or aggressive pedophiles? People, who are ENJOYING pain and suffering of their victims? Who are ENJOYING killing or mutiliating innocent prey? In cases like that, I don't really care, what killers' family feel about him, facing the death penalty. I think rather about families of those, who died because some psycho decided to "play" a little o_O

In my opinion, human beasts like that should be eliminated. They won't change. They won't regret for what they did. There is no cure for lack of remorse and empathy for other human being. It may sounds cruel, but in THIS SPECIFIC CASES, death penalty is fully justified.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:19:20 PM

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I don't argue for the death penalty as a deterrent, Rae. I don't care if the criminal is afraid of his/her fate or not. I want them permanently removed from any segment of society regardless of how they feel about it.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/2/2009 4:21:11 PM >

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:22:27 PM

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Curtis McCarty

This is someone who was convicted twice and subsequently sentenced to death 3 times.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:24:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMerrisa
Hmm...so what should be done about serial killers, serial rapists or aggressive pedophiles?

life imprisonment

quote:

In my opinion, human beasts like that should be eliminated. They won't change. They won't regret for what they did. There is no cure for lack of remorse and empathy for other human being.

You have no remorse for state killing and there is no way at all that you could ever empathise with them. If those are the qualities that make you a better human you fail obviously.

quote:

It may sounds cruel, but in THIS SPECIFIC CASES, death penalty is fully justified.

In these specific cases the individual has a sickness in most cases related to their own experiences growing up. I'd prefer to learn from these people why they do it to prevent others from doing it. You can't learn anything from the dead.

I don't believe in born evil.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:28:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I don't argue for the death penalty as a deterrent, Rae. I don't care if the criminal is afraid of his/her fate or not. I want them permanently removed from any segment of society regardless of how they feel about it.

Then you should really be for executing mad people, minors etc. Perhaps you are I don't know. Why can't they be removed through imprisonment?

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:32:33 PM

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I do not disagree. I am pro death penalty, but also pro overhaul of the justice system. How can we take 1, 5, 10, 15, 20 years of a persons life from them with such an imperfect system. The emotional scars are likely very severe to live with if you are innocent and spend that amount of time caged with some of the felons in the system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

The Death Penalty prevents a second offense from occuring. The Death Penalty makes sure the criminal will not prey upon society again.

No. If the right person is convicted and eventually executed it prevents a second offense. Of the 1286 completed capital cases since the 1973 reinstatement more than 10% resulted in convicted being released from prison becuase of proven innocence. With an error rate at least that high the state has no business taking lives.

< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 5/2/2009 5:10:31 PM >

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:39:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Curtis McCarty

This is someone who was convicted twice and subsequently sentenced to death 3 times.

That's some story. I always get conflicted feelings when I see stuff like that. Such a tragedy on one hand, but sort of a relief and a victory of sorts since he was finally freed.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:44:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard
Why can't they be removed through imprisonment?

Prison is still a society, Rae. There is still a culture, and an environment where predators will find prey. Prey, incidentally, which might have some hope of re-entering general society.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 4:54:41 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Well apart from the last two paragraphs that has little to do with capital punishment. Yes the death penalty is no deterrent against second offences if the perpetrator kills everyone to try and escape after he has killed one person in the heat of the moment because the consequences for one murder are so high.

I'm not sure what your point is but... if he was executed for the first offense there would not be a second.

If he knew for sure that if he killed with forethought then perhaps he would not kill at all.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/2/2009 4:55:18 PM >

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:00:45 PM

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Fast reply

Here are a couple of instances that might add some fuel to the fire, or at least be cause for discussion on the topic.

In the early 1970's I met a guy that was on work release from the state prison and we became pretty good friends. His crime? He and a friend had broken into a small store, afterhours, with the intent of taking what cash and goods they could, then leave. What they didn't know was that the owner of the store lived in back. The owner was elderly and had cancer, heart problems, and a number of other life threatening illnesses and could have died at any moment anyway. In the excitement the elderly man had a heart attack and died. What should the appropriate sentence have been for the two perpatrators?

Then what about the case of Joseph Duncan? He had been released on sex offence charges, I believe in Iowa but don't remember for sure. He traveled through the northern states using a GPS system to show the locations of possible victims as well as where to find places to hide and cool off and other things. In north Idaho he broke into a rural farm house and used a hammer to bludgeon to death a mother, her boyfriend, and the woman's oldest son who was in his mid teens. Duncan then kidnapped the two youngest children, a girl aged 8 (as memory serves me) and her brother who was a year older. He took the two kids into Montana to an abandon and broke down cabin and stayed there for several days, keeping the kids chained to trees if he was not available to be there. He took the boy and made sexual, sadistic videos of himself with the child. A day or two later he shot the boy with a shotgun, first in the stomach, then in the head, while the boys sister watched. For the next several days he burned the boys body in the campfire until nothing was left but a few bones, which he hid. A few days later an alert waitress at a diner spotted the girl and recognized her from posters. While she did what she could to lengthen the stay of the girl and the man she was with she had a co-waitress call the police.

As a rule, I'm not too much for the death penalty, especially if a lot of the evidence is circumstantial or contriversial. But there are some people that simply do not deserve to be on the face of the earth whether their death acts as a deterant or not.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:05:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I'm not sure what your point is but... if he was executed for the first offense there would not be a second.
If he knew for sure that if he killed with forethought then perhaps he would not kill at all.
Butch

The second offense is the second person he kills to escape because he has nothing to lose; being that he will already be executed for one killing two killings, no difference stakes-wise.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:11:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Prison is still a society, Rae. There is still a culture, and an environment where predators will find prey. Prey, incidentally, which might have some hope of re-entering general society.

The problem is there shouldn't be life with the possibility of parole. Some people will always be a threat and so should never be released no matter what the cost to society. What I like about society and what makes it a society is the fact that 'humans are humans' will always be separated from the things they do. People say these people find pleasure in killing raping etc. How do we know this are we in their position i.e. in their brains understanding the goings on? We understandably turn them into monsters but we can never say with certainty they take pleasure in their actions. I'm never going to feel sorry for them for the things they do but I think this lack of sympathy is slightly different to society conveniently eliminating them for the things they do. Earlier someone mentioned threats from a Tiger and how you would deal with it i.e. shoot it but why, couldn't you call animal control who'd shoot it with a tranquiliser dart and it would then be re-housed in an environment where it wouldn't be a threat. There is no need to kill we should be able to find better solutions to common problems which are nothing new to us.

Do you care that predators are preying on one another in a prison environment? I'd take no pleasure in that reality but it's the best solution to the problem

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:14:42 PM

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Yes, I can't empathise with guys, who are able to watch and gloat over their victims bleeding out and dying in pain. How can this sort of things arouse empathy? But ok, if you want to compare me to serial killers only for lack of compassion for them, go ahead. It's quite funny anyway ;-)

And in relation to idea of learning from this people, psychiatrist are still doing researches in case to find out, what's wrong with them, and what kind of brain malfunctions leads to such deviations. Some results of this research indicate, that areas of the brain responsible for a normal reactions on other persons' suffering, are somehow shut down and unable to function within nervous system of an aggressive sociopaths. And that's probably why people commiting this type of crimes, aren't consider their actions wrong. And of yet, medicine can't just "reboot" serial killers' brain, and make it work properly. We are also very far from ability to prevent those changes, cause there are too many factors affecting its developement, to controll them all and even estimate, which one of them is the most important. Maybe one day, it will become possible and we will be able to fix these people, not punish them, for what they've did. But I don't think, if it will happen in the nearest future ;-)

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:20:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Curtis McCarty

This is someone who was convicted twice and subsequently sentenced to death 3 times.

That's some story. I always get conflicted feelings when I see stuff like that. Such a tragedy on one hand, but sort of a relief and a victory of sorts since he was finally freed.

Many more like that:
http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/Browse-Profiles.php

(not all of them death penalty cases)

(in reply to marie2)

RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:27:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Earlier someone mentioned threats from a Tiger and how you would deal with it i.e. shoot it but why, couldn't you call animal control who'd shoot it with a tranquiliser dart and it would then be re-housed in an environment where it wouldn't be a threat.

     LOL. Because when you are seconds from death by tiger, animal control is only 45 minutes away.

     And, perhaps you have missed it, Rae, but our prisons over here are over-filled far beyond capacity with (previously) non-violent offenders. Prisons, which can have a highly negative impact on the communities that surround them.



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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:45:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I do not disagree. I am pro death penalty, but also pro overhaul of the justice system. How can we take 1, 5, 10, 15, 20 years of a persons life from them with such an imperfect system. The emotional scars are likely very severe to live with if you are innocent and spend that amount of time caged with some of the felons in the system.

There is no perfect justice system. There are many reasons to argue against the death penalty, and one of them is its irreversibility. What a terrible idea that it's better to execute an innocent because lifelong imprisonment is cruel!

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:49:51 PM

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The term is homicide or the death of a human.Murder is but one type of homicide.Others are suicide,man slaughter etc.

There is aggravated man slaughter,premeditated murder and many other classifications and levels of homicide.Not just three.

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RE: The death penalty - 5/2/2009 5:57:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I don't argue for the death penalty as a deterrent, Rae. I don't care if the criminal is afraid of his/her fate or not. I want them permanently removed from any segment of society regardless of how they feel about it.

Wow, you`re such a brave tough guy....

The same government you conservatives deride as so imperfect ,all of a sudden is competent and capable of getting the guy who did it....

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