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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 4:33:36 AM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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getting away w/ murder = legal

Why do you think bush/cheney refused to be put under oath?

For laughs?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/4/2009 4:35:14 AM >

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 7:06:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Illegally invading Iraq = spreading freedom.

So, when is Bush going to jail again?

I doubt that he is, but it is fun to watch people foaming at the mouths over it. They just can't seem to get that man out of their heads. I still wonder if they dream about him at night and who is on top.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 7:11:04 AM

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First of all, as I have already pointed out to you, it is those that are ashamed of Bush's record (because they feel responsible for it) that make snide references to people's supposed obsession with him. Secondly, I fully realise how handy it would be for a certain agenda if we forgot history whenever if suited its purpose to revise it, but you can't brainwash Bush and his legacy out of people's memory. So neener neener.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 5/4/2009 7:18:16 AM >

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 7:50:50 AM

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I think it`s enough that bush is thought of as the worst president in (recent) American history.

And how is letting bush get away with murder and espionage something to laugh at?

Talk about deprivation.

It`s fun to watch bushies squirm when the subject comes up.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/4/2009 7:57:45 AM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 7:55:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Lorr, I think that if the Congress actually proceeded to attempt to try American political figures for "torture" or "war crimes" for actions taken during the fight against terrorism in the last 8 years, it would likely be a national watershed event.

.......couldn't agree more. From my point of view it would mark the point where US politicians are held responsible in more than an electoral sense for their actions.

quote:

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

.......er......'normality'? In a thread where we're essentially discussing euphemisms?

You appear to be suggesting that it is 'normal' for US politicians not to be held accountable for their actions in office once they've left office, and further appear to be threatening violence in order to support that position.
Have i read you wrong? In which case please tell me how......

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 8:47:20 AM

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Frank Luntz is the guy most responsible for the "neo"-speak we`ve suffered under.

In an interview,Luntz puts a positive spin on Orwellian techniques of deception.He`s a real fucker,innocent smiles and all.

He provides the many of the bullshit talking points cons use.The most popular" the science is still out on climate change".

Some examples of Luntz`s craft.

Penn Jillete exposes Luntz`s bullshit.

Luntz and Fox bullshitting us.

bush`s "green" strategy.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/4/2009 8:48:36 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 9:07:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Let polluters dump more crap into the air= "Clear Skies Initiative".

The accurate term is "climate change".

But since you`re a "denier" on the issue in the 1st place and not interested in a honest discussion about it,why be concerned with the terms used?

It appears you aren't interested in honest discussion yourself. Use of such derogatory language (denier) is quite prejudicial and the eliminates the possibility of honesty being a part of any discussion.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 9:54:13 AM

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"Progressive" = ???

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 11:17:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

First of all, as I have already pointed out to you, it is those that are ashamed of Bush's record (because they feel responsible for it) that make snide references to people's supposed obsession with him. Secondly, I fully realise how handy it would be for a certain agenda if we forgot history whenever if suited its purpose to revise it, but you can't brainwash Bush and his legacy out of people's memory. So neener neener.

I have no problem with people who want him held accountable for things he did. It's the ones who bring him up in every thread, whether it has anything to do with him or not. And for the record I am not implying that you do this. You don't that I notice, the ones who do, know who they are.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 11:21:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I think it`s enough that bush is thought of as the worst president in (recent) American history.
I could care less what people think about Bush.

And how is letting bush get away with murder and espionage something to laugh at?
Show me one post where I said he should get away with anything.

Talk about deprivation.
Now that would be interesting. Sensory deprivation can be very thrilling.

It`s fun to watch bushies squirm when the subject comes up.
Not sure why you think anyone would be squirming. How would something happing to GW effect me and why would I care?

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 12:40:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

Politicians remind me of that old car salesman joke: "How do you know a politician is lying? His/her lips are moving."

Now, with "NewSpeak" we have to dig to find out what the message really is that we're being sent. Fortunately for us, we do have the opportunity to discuss these kinds of things quickly instead of over days or years, as in the past.

Doesn't mean we won't be newspeaked but at least we have a better chance at reading between those lines and around.

It really goes back centuries, not just a decade or so. Orwell put it into a form we could recognize from our political leadership, but "organized religion" (not the same as spirituality, for my use) has been using it since the first shaman.

Let's face it; Newspeak isn't PlainSpeak. It is an attempt to cloak/hide something. Maybe it could be called "CloakSpeak"

The real purpose of it is to curtail speech and by doing so curtail thought. You can't express ideas that you don\t have words for. Any time a politician can get on TV and tell a bold face lie and then when it's proved it was a lie and he knew it was a lie, say he mis-spoke and we accept it, we are fucked.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 12:42:01 PM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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1 Right,that`s why you respond.2Ok,you said you had fun watching people foam about a criminal.Fun=laugh.3 I was referring to moral deprivation.

And 4

Then why do you post if you don`t care.If you didn`t care,you wouldn`t post,Simple really.It`s not a deep concept.

Naw, you care enough to post and respond.lolYour discomfiture,apparent.

If you have a problem with folks talking about bush,if it seems like every thread mentions the Traitor In Chief,then go away.Perhaps the Politics/Religion section is rigorous for you.

You were doing much better when you constantly explained how liberals think and post liberal thoughts and how conservatives think and post conservative thoughts.Even thought that goes without saying anyway.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/4/2009 12:57:23 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 1:11:20 PM

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Just an observation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

2Ok,you said you had fun watching people foam about a criminal.Fun=laugh.

Let's look at the previously relevant quote -

quote:

And how is letting bush get away with murder and espionage something to laugh at?

Except, that's not what he was laughing at.

quote:

Original: thishereboi

but it is fun to watch people foaming at the mouths over it.

People here REALLY are getting so carried away with the strawman arguments.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 1:17:43 PM

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Claiming Orwell for the right would be a wonderful example of Newspeak. He was, after all, a socialist who believed in a classless society. He just hated Stalinists, quite rightly.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 2:04:34 PM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

Politicians remind me of that old car salesman joke: "How do you know a politician is lying? His/her lips are moving."

Now, with "NewSpeak" we have to dig to find out what the message really is that we're being sent. Fortunately for us, we do have the opportunity to discuss these kinds of things quickly instead of over days or years, as in the past.

Doesn't mean we won't be newspeaked but at least we have a better chance at reading between those lines and around.

It really goes back centuries, not just a decade or so. Orwell put it into a form we could recognize from our political leadership, but "organized religion" (not the same as spirituality, for my use) has been using it since the first shaman.

Let's face it; Newspeak isn't PlainSpeak. It is an attempt to cloak/hide something. Maybe it could be called "CloakSpeak"

The real purpose of it is to curtail speech and by doing so curtail thought. You can't express ideas that you don\t have words for. Any time a politician can get on TV and tell a bold face lie and then when it's proved it was a lie and he knew it was a lie, say he mis-spoke and we accept it, we are fucked.

Same agreement, just a different take on it.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 2:19:44 PM

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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Lorr, I think that if the Congress actually proceeded to attempt to try American political figures for "torture" or "war crimes" for actions taken during the fight against terrorism in the last 8 years, it would likely be a national watershed event.

.......couldn't agree more. From my point of view it would mark the point where US politicians are held responsible in more than an electoral sense for their actions.

quote:

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

.......er......'normality'? In a thread where we're essentially discussing euphemisms?

You appear to be suggesting that it is 'normal' for US politicians not to be held accountable for their actions in office once they've left office, and further appear to be threatening violence in order to support that position.
Have i read you wrong? In which case please tell me how......

As has been discussed several times, it is some people's assumption, that just because they disagreed with Bush's policies, that by definition he is guilty of some sort of crime.

Many Americans may not have liked some of the things he did, or his record, but it certainly appears that he and his administration made more than simply a "good faith effort" to ensure that nothing they did was illegal.

Now, that he is out of office, his opponents (who never agreed with anything he proposed or did, and never will, and never would have) are attempting to redefine his actions into terms of illegal actions.

When, in fact, they were, and are policy disagreements .

When, in America, a party in power has to start worrying about being criminally prosecuted for policies differences once they are out of power, then the entire concept of a peaceful transfer of power is gone.

"Loyal opposition" will no longer exist.

American Democracy and the American Constitutional Republic will be no different than a banana republic where the strongest (most violent, most willing to kill, torture and "disappear" his opponents) will gain, and then maintain power, and men of good will, will be scarce on the political scene.

Hell, we have a hard enough time now getting anything other than a "politician" and just another member of the politician class to run for office - what do you think the result will be when we start putting political opponents in prison because we disagree with them?

This isn't a new concern from me. In fact, protection of elected officials for what they may say, or their actions in pursuit of their elected office's agendas is a basic part of the founding fathers concept of a Republic.

That is what I consider "normal".

Firm

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 3:12:59 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

1 Right,that`s why you respond.2Ok,you said you had fun watching people foam about a criminal.Fun=laugh.3 I was referring to moral deprivation.

And 4

Then why do you post if you don`t care.If you didn`t care,you wouldn`t post,Simple really.It`s not a deep concept.

Naw, you care enough to post and respond.lolYour discomfiture,apparent.

If you have a problem with folks talking about bush,if it seems like every thread mentions the Traitor In Chief,then go away.Perhaps the Politics/Religion section is rigorous for you.

You were doing much better when you constantly explained how liberals think and post liberal thoughts and how conservatives think and post conservative thoughts.Even thought that goes without saying anyway.

I come here when I get bored or when I need a good laugh. I never said I had a problem with Bush, but you obviously don't read what I write so I don't see the point in going through it again. If you don't like my posts, feel free to block them.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 5:03:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Many Americans may not have liked some of the things he did, or his record, but it certainly appears that he and his administration made more than simply a "good faith effort" to ensure that nothing they did was illegal.

...well, i certianly agree that many people disagreed with Bush's actions. Perhaps most of those actions were part of his stated agenda as well, so they ought not to have been that surprised. However, i think there are one or two areas where it isn't at all clear his administration made anything close to a 'good faith effort' in order to stay on the right side of the law. The big one is, of course, torture....or enhanced interrogation, or whatever euphemism suits you best. There is a legitimate question over its legality and the last administrations desire to put that policy in place. You may not like it, but the question does have some legitimacy. In my opinion the best way to put this question to rest is to have some form of enquiry into it. If it was possible to give Clinton a fair shake, then it is equally possible to give Bush a fair shake. He and Cheney may end up vindicated.......

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 7:00:22 PM

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Firm I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around "good faith effort".What exactly does that entail....how do Constitutional lawyers,Justice Dept Appointees make a "good faith effort" to write an opinion and still get it wrong.
There did seem to be a lot of "effort" put into the "torture memos"...none of it would seem to have included "good faith"
From where I sit the only way to look at the work product of Yoo,Bybee and Bradbury is a conscious effort to reach a finding of legality where there was none.An attempt to boiler plate illegal activity with a spurious before the fact opinion.
Shameless behavior to say the least....criminal at worst....and that is what an investigation must determine.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 5/4/2009 7:22:40 PM >

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/4/2009 7:27:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

However, i think there are one or two areas where it isn't at all clear his administration made anything close to a 'good faith effort' in order to stay on the right side of the law. The big one is, of course, torture....or enhanced interrogation, or whatever euphemism suits you best.

As this thread attest, you are participating in the redefinition of the interrogations as torture, because it furthers the political agenda that you prefer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

There is a legitimate question over its legality and the last administrations desire to put that policy in place. You may not like it, but the question does have some legitimacy. In my opinion the best way to put this question to rest is to have some form of enquiry into it. If it was possible to give Clinton a fair shake, then it is equally possible to give Bush a fair shake. He and Cheney may end up vindicated.......

That all kinda sounds good and reasonable, except for the fact that the "inquiry" will be in a political arena, not a legal arena.

Firm

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