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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 12:30:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Geneva convention "quaint"? I'd like to see a quote to that effect, please. You do mean the treaty to which the Bush admin spent a lot of time trying to determine what their exact duties and responsibilities were, before they took any actions based on it?

USATODAY.com - Rumsfeld's time 'absorbed' by abuse scandal

McCain said he wants to know how Rumsfeld reacted to complaints about prisoner abuse raised by chief U.S. Iraq administrator Paul Bremer and Secretary of State Colin Powell. He also wants to know how Rumsfeld responded, if he knew about it, to a post-Sept. 11 memo to President Bush by White House counsel Alberto Gonzales. The memo, disclosed by Newsweek, said the war on terrorism "renders quaint" some of the provisions of the Geneva Conventions concerning humane treatment of prisoners.

Memorandum on the Geneva Conventions

In his memo, Gonzales demonstrates an enormous talent for justifying setting aside a century of U.S. policy. Highlights of the memo to President Bush (January 25, 2002):

Gonzales says the "new paradigm" of the war on terrorism "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions."

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 12:40:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Philosophy and I engage in actual discussions. If he requests clarification of my response to him, I'm inclined to provided it.

Not so with you.

However, here is no doubt the quote you are still questioning:

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

Please point out to me where I "advocated" armed insurrection.

Your questions did not address anything I said in the statement quoted above, did not actually add anything to the discussion, and were both simple yes or no questions, to which I appropriately responded.

Perhaps if you read closely, with an open mind, and absent preconceived notions, you'll better be able to understand what I've written, and where your particular error in understanding occurs.

Firm

Yes, so what you are saying is I just really don't understand.

So help me out Firm, take pity on someone with a vastly inferior intellect to yours, and explain to me how "nothing other than an active and armed resistance" means anything but that?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 12:46:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So help me out Firm, take pity on someone with a vastly inferior intellect to yours, and explain to me how "nothing other than an active and armed resistance" means anything but that?

It's terrorism, isn't it

?

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 12:49:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I doubt that he is, but it is fun to watch people foaming at the mouths over it. They just can't seem to get that man out of their heads. I still wonder if they dream about him at night and who is on top.

You mean between Bush and Cheney?

Definitely Cheney.

Bush was always his bitch boy.

Thank you so much for that image. You do realize its going to take watching at least 3 episodes of Xena to get that out of my head.

Yeah, I'm sorry I brought it up myself.

It's been stuck in my head ever since.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 1:05:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So help me out Firm, take pity on someone with a vastly inferior intellect to yours, and explain to me how "nothing other than an active and armed resistance" means anything but that?

It's terrorism, isn't it ?

I don't know.

That's what I've been trying to find out.

But I seem to have been met with every gambit possible to avoid hearing the answer.

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 1:25:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So help me out Firm, take pity on someone with a vastly inferior intellect to yours, and explain to me how "nothing other than an active and armed resistance" means anything but that?

Smart ass comments directed towards me doesn't motivate me too much, thank you. Although I suspect you are constitutionally unable to do otherwise.

You seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between advocating something, and discussing it. Your inability or lack of desire to exercise discrimination in reasoning is indicative of much of what is wrong with Western society today.

Firm

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 1:26:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's terrorism, isn't it ?

So, what is the difference between terrorism and freedom fighters?

Firm

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 1:38:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Geneva convention "quaint"? I'd like to see a quote to that effect, please. You do mean the treaty to which the Bush admin spent a lot of time trying to determine what their exact duties and responsibilities were, before they took any actions based on it?

USATODAY.com - Rumsfeld's time 'absorbed' by abuse scandal

McCain said he wants to know how Rumsfeld reacted to complaints about prisoner abuse raised by chief U.S. Iraq administrator Paul Bremer and Secretary of State Colin Powell. He also wants to know how Rumsfeld responded, if he knew about it, to a post-Sept. 11 memo to President Bush by White House counsel Alberto Gonzales. The memo, disclosed by Newsweek, said the war on terrorism "renders quaint" some of the provisions of the Geneva Conventions concerning humane treatment of prisoners.

Memorandum on the Geneva Conventions

In his memo, Gonzales demonstrates an enormous talent for justifying setting aside a century of U.S. policy. Highlights of the memo to President Bush (January 25, 2002):
Gonzales says the "new paradigm" of the war on terrorism "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions."

Excellent work, rule. Thank you for the links.

However, they do point to a major inaccuracy in your comments.

"The Geneva Convention" was not called "quaint" at all. According to your sources, what was written by Gonzeles was that the type of conflict we are involved with "renders quaint some of its provisions" on the handling and questioning of captured personnel.

"Provisions" does not equal the entire Convention.

It also shows the "good faith efforts" I mentioned and that a detailed discussion occurred in the Administration over the issue.

Interesting links. Thank you again.

Firm

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 1:56:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's terrorism, isn't it ?

So, what is the difference between terrorism and freedom fighters?

Firm

My first impulse is to say it depends on whose point of view.
But that doesn't actually work,does it?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 2:19:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So, what is the difference between terrorism and freedom fighters?

...usually the nationality of those who fund them. Body count is usually about the same.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 2:24:05 PM

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So it is impossible to fight for ones freedom without resosrting to the methods of terrorism?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 2:45:46 PM

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People who send women and young people into public places to blow up other women and young people in order to progress towards enslaving humanity for "Allah" can only be "Freedom Fighters" to those who lack a fundamental understanding of what freedom truly is...

Unless... has "freedom" become newspeak for "slavery" now?

Is Al-qaeda truly morally equivalent to the Continental Congress of 1700's America?

I think not.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/5/2009 2:48:43 PM >

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 2:57:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's terrorism, isn't it ?

So, what is the difference between terrorism and freedom fighters?

Firm

My first impulse is to say it depends on whose point of view.
But that doesn't actually work,does it?

No, it doesn't.

Excellent, Mike.

Firm

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 3:00:05 PM

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Yes, because sending drones to bomb the shit out of civilian populations is so much more noble.

http://www.mediamouse.org/news/2009/04/us-drones-kill-687-pakistan-civilians.php

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 3:10:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yes, because sending drones to bomb the shit out of civilian populations is so much more noble.

http://www.mediamouse.org/news/2009/04/us-drones-kill-687-pakistan-civilians.php

Interesting.

Was the count before or after Obama's latest strikes in Pakistan?

Firm

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 3:11:21 PM

kdsub

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I've nothing to do...I may as well get jumped on... If I target an occupying army I am a freedom fighter... I may kill civilians by accident but not on purpose… I may be wrong but I am a freedom fighter. If I target a market...not to kill occupying soldiers but simply to show the populist the army cannot protect them...I am a terrorist... If I kill and main female school children because they want to go to school... I am a terrorist... If I fly a plane full of helpless men women and children into an office building... I am a terrorist.... If I cut the head off a reporter on camera I am a terrorists...If I drop a backpack full of explosives on a subway train full of innocent people... I am a terrorist.

I don't think it is hard to tell the difference.

Butch

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 3:18:58 PM

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"Media Mouse" huh...

Hmm...

LOL...

Sorry kitten, but you really cost yourself a great deal of credibility when you try to insist that our use of force against terrorists in Pakistan makes us the moral equivalent to Al-qaeda.

Terrorists are civilians, and terrorists aren't ashamed to hide among civilians so there may be a glimmer of truth to some of the reports you dig up with your "Media Mouse" sources that are apparently misreporting on our bombing Al-qaeda in Pakistan.

But honestly. We'll always come up well shy of screaming "Allah Akbar" while slowly slicing off the heads of non-believers. We feed half of Pakistan, for dogs sake... mediate the peace between them and India. We're working hard to keep Pakistan's nukes safe from actual terrorists...

Really. If you truly don't understand that there are vast differences, that's just very very sad.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 3:28:06 PM

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Yes, let's just draw the line over the dead women and children killed by our missiles (noticed how they're NEVER talked about on the mainstream national media, hmm?). They're only Moozlems after all.

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RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 3:43:02 PM

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Unfortunately there are no "clean" wars...nor it would seem "clean"strikes.The innocent often die no matter the ideology of the bomb thrower.
We in the west(well certainly in the United States)have the luxury of a modern military...so we can delude ourselves that we make every attempt to avoid the loss of innocent lives.This is nothing more than a delusion....we ,like all others involved in conflict make value judgements as a matter of course...this high value target measured against that many collateral victims.
We tend to think of these "judgements" as more civilised than those of the terrorist...and I have no doubt we are.But playing Devil's Advocate here for a minute......what if we were stripped of all our advantages....The technological advantages we enjoy stripped away in a blink of an eye.Reduced to abject poverty in an instant......what would we be capable of?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak - 5/5/2009 3:48:37 PM

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Good point, Firm. I guess Obama's the new leader of the HORRIBLY evil, rotten United States military... fully equivalent to Osama Bin Laden in the minds of certain people on the far, far, FARRRR left.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yes, because sending drones to bomb the shit out of civilian populations is so much more noble.

http://www.mediamouse.org/news/2009/04/us-drones-kill-687-pakistan-civilians.php

Interesting.

Was the count before or after Obama's latest strikes in Pakistan?

Firm

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

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