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How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership witho... - 2/7/2006 9:02:38 AM

SubjectProperty

Posts: 57
Joined: 12/7/2005
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Since Slavery itself is officially illegal but is nonetheless still practiced and condoned by a number of nations let us explore how one can aquire reality power and control over someone that is irrevocable on their part,but they having given their prior informed consent.

It is possible to have carte-blanche Sovereign Dominion over the physical person,their affairs and property,using a number of existing legal statutes. These enable a person to aquire legal authority over another person that is not far short of actual Ownership and therefore Slavery.

The statutes exist in all legal durisdictions based upon English and Scottish Law. They vary in content from state to state,province to province,nation to nation. Google has some excellent websites describing each U.S. States statutes on those mentioned below.

These are some of them:-

Irevocable,General Power of Attorney; This gives limited power and control over someone but is often sufficient for most Dominant and Submissive power exchange relationships. Cheap and easy to enact.

Adult Adoption Agreement; The adopter must usually be at least 10 years older than the adoptee. Cheap and easy to enact.

Adult Guardianship Order; This is difficult to aquire but by no means impossible to achieve.It is expensive and time consuming(from 1 to 2 years) to enact. It is also the closest to real Ownership and oftentimes the power granted is awesome and can include reasonable physical chastisement;physical restraint and locked seclusion. If the Subject absconded then the Police/Sheriff Department would have to search for,locate,detain anbd return the subject back into your custody.

So anyone thinking of exercising real power and control should explore the above possibilities.

< Message edited by SubjectProperty -- 2/7/2006 9:09:47 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 9:16:59 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubjectProperty
So anyone thinking of exercising real power and control should explore the above possibilities.

This is only important if it's important to the slave owner that there is no revokable possibility on the part of the slave. For many modern M/s situations, they do not care to live in such a state. Also, many M/s relationships desire a modern marriage situation, either due to social status, legal status or romantic benefits.

Your way is not the only way to have "real" authority within a relationship.

Your ideas are excellent if someone wants to practice that sort of ownership, and I consider them completely valid. But it is only one possible way.

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Post #: 2

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 9:19:25 AM

SubjectProperty

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Joined: 12/7/2005
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I agree my way is not the only way. There are many schools of thought on this subject. You have no desire to own anyone but others who are dominant want absolute and irrevocable control. Each to their own.

< Message edited by SubjectProperty -- 2/7/2006 9:27:22 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 9:40:46 AM

truesub4u

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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Needs more coffee.... and a dictionary for some of this. Big words used with not enough caffine in system.

But I did get some of the posting. And I know of a girl who is as you stated under Guardianship Order. I watched her go from being happy.. to down right out of touch with any type of reality. And resently her Master has been shipped to Iraq. Because of this guardianship order, he was able to get courts to pass it along to his brother while he's gone. She fears her Master's brother and sister in law... and her Master knows this. But still because of his absence now, she's under anothers control. It's a very much fucked up situation really. But because of this Court Order... she's unable to get out at all now. She did try to run... cops was called... they located her... and took her back. And because she voiced her fears of the brother and wife of her Master, they were able to tell the law she was "unstable" and under such guardianship order. And cops ignored all her pleas for help.

She has sought out leagal help to get out of this... and it's sending her to shrinks... being further medicated on depressants.... all the bullshit wrapped up with this type of ownership. And she's still there... unable to get out. This has been going on for 3 years now that I know of. When her Master was being shipped to Iraq, she felt her escape so close... only to be slammed by this court order being passed on to another.

No.. I could never see me, nor agree with anyone wanting to get into this type of ownership.
But like all things.. some things are ment for one.. and not all.

_____________________________

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RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 9:45:48 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubjectProperty

Irevocable,General Power of Attorney; This gives limited power and control over someone but is often sufficient for most Dominant and Submissive power exchange relationships. Cheap and easy to enact.

Cheap and easy to break as well. There is no such thing as "Irevocable" power of attorney.

quote:

Adult Adoption Agreement; The adopter must usually be at least 10 years older than the adoptee. Cheap and easy to enact.

And meaningless in regards to slavery. Once a person has reached the age of majority, an adopting parent holds no control over the adoptee.

quote:

Adult Guardianship Order; This is difficult to aquire but by no means impossible to achieve.It is expensive and time consuming(from 1 to 2 years) to enact. It is also the closest to real Ownership and oftentimes the power granted is awesome and can include reasonable physical chastisement;physical restraint and locked seclusion. If the Subject absconded then the Police/Sheriff Department would have to search for,locate,detain anbd return the subject back into your custody.

Swing and a miss, strike three! Adult guardianship orders are almost exclusively granted (in the US, not sure about other countries) for the purpose of elder/diminished capacity care and require substantial justification. You're not going to sneak one by a judge without a damn good reason.

quote:

So anyone thinking of exercising real power and control should explore the above possibilities.

Real power? Pardon my bluntness, but it's more like real wanking material.

~stef

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(in reply to SubjectProperty)

Post #: 5

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 9:59:04 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
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From: Davis, Ca
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Thank you Stef, those were the things I'd planned to say.

I'd like to add, though, that as far as I know one can only get power of atorney or an adult gaurdianship order in cases where the individual being "gaurded' (for lack on a more appropriate word) has been proven deficient when it comes to taking care of him/herself. That is, that he/she needs someone to take care of him/her because of mental ability, physical ability, etc.

I've read that in those cases, it is almost universally determined that such individuals cannot consent to sexual interaction, -especially- not with their gaurdians, and such actions would be considered abuse. Yup, we're not talking about just sex, I know. However, I'd stretch and say that enforced physical labor, punishment, all the trappings of 'slavery' would also fall under abuse, if applied to a person considered to have the diminished capacity required to get gaurdianship.

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RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:12:45 AM

SubjectProperty

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Joined: 12/7/2005
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I do sympathise with her situation. She is however,a consensual slave under a guardianship order without human rights or civil liberties and no entitlement to freedom for the remainder of her natural life. I am glad you mentioned her story has it authenticates what many decline to actually believe,which is that you can own people in America today,but you do not refer to them has slaves.

< Message edited by SubjectProperty -- 2/7/2006 10:15:19 AM >

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 7

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:19:43 AM

SubjectProperty

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Hello,knock knock,is anybody at home please? I refered to Adult and not child adoption. Do not coment upon matters about which you have no real authentic knowledge and have not extensively researched and sort advice upon from diverse and differing legal opionion.

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 8

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:24:42 AM

SubjectProperty

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Joined: 12/7/2005
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Stef,
Why not read trusubs story. She knows of a women in that situation. Certainly it is not just for elderly incompetents but a wide spectrum of incompetants. Yes it would be difficult to get past many judges but some are lifestyle friendly and even practitioners has are lawyers and psychiatrists. It has been done but only by a few score people nationwide so far.

< Message edited by SubjectProperty -- 2/7/2006 10:25:28 AM >

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 9

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:24:57 AM

stef

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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubjectProperty

I refered to Adult and not child adoption.

Yes, I know and my statement stands. If the adoptee is above the age of majority, the adopting parent has no control over them any more then a biological parent has over their offspring when they reach the age of majority.

Feel free to point out where that statement is incorrect.

quote:

Do not coment upon matters about which you have no real authentic knowledge

Oh, the irony.

~stef

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Post #: 10

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:34:38 AM

stef

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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubjectProperty

Stef,
Why not read trusubs story. She knows of a women in that situation.

I read stories about alien abductions too, but I don't necessarily believe them either.

quote:

Certainly it is not just for elderly incompetents but a wide spectrum of incompetants.

As I already said, the phrase "almost exclusively" should have been a clue. Please try reading for comprehension.

quote:

Yes it would be difficult to get past many judges but some are lifestyle friendly and even practitioners has are lawyers and psychiatrists. It has been done but only by a few score people nationwide so far.

I can see disbarments, loss of licenses to practice and jail time in some of their futures.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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Post #: 11

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:40:45 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubjectProperty

Stef,
Why not read trusubs story. She knows of a women in that situation.

I read stories about alien abductions too, but I don't necessarily believe them either.

~stef

Can't say as I blame you there Stef, but I am sorry to say it's true. I really wish it wasn't myself.

But I only posted as a response to the OP... it wasn't ment to piss anyone off, or anything else. Because of the different aspects of being "Owned"

I seriously think that being owned.. should be a mind thing more than anything else. That was IF things go wrong.. there's an out.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 12

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:49:16 AM

SubjectProperty

Posts: 57
Joined: 12/7/2005
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Well the Lawyers,Psychiatrists,Social workers,involved in the case of the women who is notw a lifelong owned slave by vertue of her adult guardianship,clearly have not been disbarred nor will they be.

< Message edited by SubjectProperty -- 2/7/2006 10:50:38 AM >

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 13

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 10:53:51 AM

SubjectProperty

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Joined: 12/7/2005
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With respect truesub, you cannot by definition be a Slave unless you are legally owned. I suspect that you are a conditional submissive who is in a consensual psycho-sexual,sadomasochist relationship but who is definately not a slave. You can walk away a real slave cannot. Remember she chose to be a slave and now she is a slave.She has no right whatsoever to complain because she is just property and absolutely nothing more.

< Message edited by SubjectProperty -- 2/7/2006 10:55:18 AM >

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 14

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 11:04:44 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubjectProperty

With respect truesub, you cannot by definition be a Slave unless you are legally owned. I suspect that you are a conditional submissive who is in a consensual psycho-sexual,sadomasochist relationship but who is definately not a slave. You can walk away a real slave cannot. Remember she chose to be a slave and now she is a slave.She has no right whatsoever to complain because she is just property and absolutely nothing more.

You can be a consensual slave without being legally owned.

I believe, personally, that your type of slavery is the type that should be elliminated throughout the world because it is immoral and abusive. Anything that removes the right to leave the situation is abusive in my eyes.

I believe that a slave, or person who is owned has one right. The right to leave. That may be his/her only right, and depending on the situation I could argue that it -should- be his/her only right. However, if that right is compromised, we have lost the morality that makes what we do different from enforced slavery, a method of ownership I have yet to find anyone who supports.

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RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 11:06:52 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Can't say as I blame you there Stef, but I am sorry to say it's true. I really wish it wasn't myself.

Without knowing the specifics of her situation—if she was entered into this order under false pretenses (such as for the purpose of slavery) and truly wants out of it, then it's almost certainly one she can be released from. A third party can request a review of a her guardianship order and get it in front of a judge once info regarding the true reasons for it are brought to light.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

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RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 11:18:59 AM

JohnWarren

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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubjectProperty

Well the Lawyers,Psychiatrists,Social workers,involved in the case of the women who is notw a lifelong owned slave by vertue of her adult guardianship,clearly have not been disbarred nor will they be.

Was that "not" or "now"?

But the practical matter remains how one can know that a lawyer won't be disbarred in the future. Obviously, psychiarists and social workers can only lose their license.

Now, while the requirements of an "Adult Guardianship" or "Guardian ad litem" varies from state to state. Most of the ones about which I'm aware require affirmation that the person be disabled in some form in such a way that the state needs to appoint someone to protect him or her against neglect, exploitation, or abuse.

In the case of someone seeking the situation in the way you are putting forth, I strongly believe that a certain degree of falsification and fabrication would be necessary to obtain the required order leading to a situation were accessories in the matter would, indeed, be subject to licensure review.

This would be particularly if the "slave" decided to leave the relationship and took action to get his or her rights back.

It's a nice fantasy, but it certainly opens up a huge potential downside.

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RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 11:35:46 AM

Arpig

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While I do not question that it may be possible to use the laws in this way (What?...You actually think all lawyers are honest?...Never heard of a corrupt judge?) it is clearly not the use for which the laws were created, and thus it would be an abuse of the law.

As to if it would, in and of itself constitute abuse, well that is not so clear cut. If the person being deprived of their rights did indeed enter into the situation voluntarily and without any coercion, and was fully cognizant of what they were doing, then I would have to say no. If that were not the case, then yes, it would constitute abuse in and of itself.

I am not aware of the legal details, but it is my understanding that any form of sexual contact would be legally deemed abuse, and would in fact open the guardian to prosecution. I believe the same would apply to physical abuse and to excessive labour, etc. but that is just my understanding of how it works (or at least how it is supposed to work).

Obviously a situation like this has enormous possibility for abuse built into it, and therefore is a very risky thing, but then again all of WIITWD involves some degree of risk. My advice to anybody asked to enter into this sort of life would be to ask yourself..."Why does the Dominant want this to be legally enforceable?" And to anybody seriously considering entering into such an arrangement...stop and think, long and hard about it, then think about it again.

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(in reply to SubjectProperty)

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RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 12:56:06 PM

NeedToUseYou

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This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The spirit of the laws regarding this situation, is one takes over seeing for the "Well-Being" of another who isn't capable. As in you'd be like a parent. And as such, if you were found to be doing things that weren't in line with that you'd be in serious trouble. IE, if you utilized, your position in the eyes of the law to "abuse" your power trusted to you by the state. You'd be in very deep shit.

Your playing with fire here, I'd suggest you back off this whole concept. Because the mere fact that it was put through by some means and you gained legal guardianship or Power of attorney, doesn't mean you can't be charged with abuse. Because the only way to get such rights over another is when the slave in this case has been deemed unable to care for themselves.

Most common use would be in the case of the elderly, and a child takes on power of attorney for them. That doesn't mean the child can chain the elderly person in a room or beat them, or anything actually that you'd want to do to a slave. In reality, it means the person taking power of attorney must make sure the person is cared for and not abused. THAT IS WHY THE LAWS EXIST, TO PROTECT PEOPLE WHO ARE UNABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS FROM BEING ABUSED.

Think of it this way, you having power of attorney, puts you in the position of being a parent for another and as such if any legal issues arose you are going to be judged on that basis. Not on just liking kinky sex, so really you are putting yourself in a position where you are more legally at risk, than a normal Master/Slave relationship. Way to Go.

(in reply to SubjectProperty)

Post #: 19

RE: How to aquire Power and Control akin to Ownership w... - 2/7/2006 1:29:27 PM

seaturtle50

Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
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quote:

a consensual slave under a guardianship order without human rights or civil liberties and no entitlement to freedom

without human rights or civil liberties ... no entitlement to freedom .... um, at the risk of revealing myself as one who "Do not coment upon matters about which you have no real authentic knowledge and have not extensively researched and sort advice upon from diverse and differing legal opionion" ... what country are we speaking of here?

st50

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