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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/25/2009 7:46:23 PM   
MissDominae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
agreed; except that you missed me off the list


Sincere apologies :).   As I said, the list was of those I knew well personally or from ample publicity.   I will be sure to add you to my little list in future~!

quote:

and except that some of us are ridiculously lucky in passing well enough that we can build new lives from the ruins of old ones. those who dont pass well often find themselves undermined and prevented by reactions from others.


I'd agree with that to a great extent, save that I have always refused to draw a line between 'passing' and 'full acceptance'.   What I mean by that is, I don't know if I pass fully - people tell me I do but that doesn't mean I do to everyone - but I can confirm from personal experience that I am accepted, happily and without reservation, just as me.   I don't face discrimination anymore, can't remember the last nasty comment directed against me (except, perhaps, about my driving LOL) and have lived a boringly normal life in a semi rural and quite 'redneck' sort of area for the past 20 years.   Life is good except that, as a disabled person with MS now, the latter years haven't been quite as I planned.   That's life for you though~!

Curiously, I was involved with the Police as well.... firstly as a serving Member and then later on retirement as a consultant and Lecturer on diversity and tolerance at the Police Academy.   It's a small world

I am so happy for you that you are one of the blessed ones who have quite achievable full stealth.   Those I know here in Australia feel the same 'guilt' you feel and I say to them what I now say to you - never feel guilt over a blessing; just use that blessing to do all you can to make life better for others not so fortunate.   Sounds to me like you're doing just that and have zero reason at all to be guilty for it.

It is a pleasure to meet you, by the way ....... I don't think I've said that yet.

Blessings ......... Livvi (Miss D.)

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/25/2009 7:53:10 PM   
MissDominae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Well first I perved your profile. Then I did some selective cursing because you're on the other side of the fraking globe.
Then I reread your post and though how well it was written.


Now I'm blushing~!

Thank you so much ... reading comments like that makes my day get better by the second *s*

Blessings .......... Miss D

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/25/2009 8:36:17 PM   
angelikaJ


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Miss D,
I took perved your profile.

(You have mail btw)

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 12:44:19 AM   
MissDominae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Miss D,
I took perved your profile.

(You have mail btw)


I do??? Where might I find it?   Mail is always most welcome.

Blessings ....... Miss D

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 1:03:48 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
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check your filtered folder :)

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 1:54:17 AM   
MissDominae


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Don't know where (or even 'what') that is Greedy Top but, if it's here, I'm sure I'll eventually find it :)

Many thanks ....... D

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 2:11:28 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
I don't have an answer as to why many M to F transexuals identify as lesbians but I don't think all of the reasons are nefarious.
I find myself wondering if part of it is just the way people are wired: if the preference for women tends to follow in 'males' regardless of their gender identification

For me as a heterosexual male, the interest in females is innately visual, auditory, olfactory, tactile, and perhaps in other ways.
 
I do know that it has been established scientifically, that gender interest is strongly associated with the olfactory sense. In heterosexuals males are attracted by people that smell female and females are attracted to people that smell male (though they describe the male smell as slightly repugnant); like sexes have smells that repell heterosexuals. In homosexual men and lesbians this is vice versa: like sex smells attract, other sex smells repell.
 
We may hypothesize that in females that are born with a male body the heterosexual olfactory sense is dominant as determined by their body: they are attracted to female smell and therefore technically identify as lesbians. Transition will not change this gender preference: they will still identify as lesbians. Hypothetically, there may now be a problem: what if, despite the hormonal supplements, they still smell like a male? Before their transition they smelled like a male and could have a relationship with a heterosexual female, but lesbians would not be interested in them, both because of their male parts but especially because they did not smell like a female, but like a male. However, if after transition they still smell like a male, they have got the problem that they will still repell lesbians, nor will heterosexual females have an interest in them any more since they lack the male parts. If this is true, then relation wise, transition is a lose-lose situation for such females, whereas not to transition is a lose-win situation.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/26/2009 2:36:42 AM >

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 4:06:37 AM   
mishadark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
As a transsexual woman.....
~Lindsey


Wotcha!

Well thats the problem.
Try saying:
"a woman with a transsexual past"
to yourself.
& to others, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.
Seriously.

The T in LBGT is a convienience, nothing more.
There is little overlap & in the UK its a hot trans issue as lgbt groups use the T to gain more funding then do frak all in representation for trans stuff.

Oh, the tg community is pretty fragmented as well
Ts support groups can really frak up your head; loads of deluded people,
you really don't need that.

This is not the best place for ts support.
Try:
http://www.nuttycats.com/phpBB2/portal.php
You will be heavily vetted but it is ok to a degree.

also join http://www.tvchix.com/
Its primarily a tv contact site but has hugely grown.
There are lots of pre / post ops there in the forums
who will offer useful comments.

My ex [Fraggle] posts on Chix {handle: psychopaul}
She is a post op woman & lesbian.
& found the same rejection as you
with family, friends
& lesbian community.
[clubs & on-line]
So she kept her mouth shut.
Started dating,
From a lesbian dating site
[gaydargirls, I think]
Then when it got serious, F. told  her partner she had something in her past she needed
to tell her about.  {I think she had dropped a few very subtle hints}
Her partner simply said:
"is it still there?"
to which fraggle said: "no"
She was dragged off to bed
& they have been there ever since
They are so much in love.
It does happen.
Move past the ts label
& don't tell anyone
ever
unless you are gonna be together & feel its long term / permanent.











_____________________________

Wannabe Ts's: It's not all tits & rainbows...

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 4:59:40 AM   
angelikaJ


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Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissDominae

Don't know where (or even 'what') that is Greedy Top but, if it's here, I'm sure I'll eventually find it :)

Many thanks ....... D



Look in your bulk mail perhaps?

_____________________________

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 5:36:07 AM   
MissDominae


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I found all the messages thanks .... and, in the process, have proven just how computer-illiterate I truly am~!

Replies now winging their way to the appropriate people, with my thanks.

Blessings all ........ Livvi

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 1:19:25 PM   
DreamGoddess666


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Joined: 5/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Heavens NO! ... but they say they don't have the money to get it done.. or they are afraid to get it done.. or they they don't have time to get it done. Common now really.. If I had all the money in the world in which ANYONE who claims they are a female in a male body and loooooooongs to be a real girl.. via the boobs and pussy and such (which by the way is a total example of MALE thinking being the visual creatures they are. All ya need are the boobs and a faux pussy, dont cha know). How many do you think would jump at the chance? I can see the beads of sweat forming on their foreheads ("You mean now? uuuhhh Really? You Sure? It's radical surgery ya know... I need to think a bit more about this" I mean I just really liked the clothes).

Ellen is the ONLY one I would give creedence to as one who is what they say they are and makes no excuses or bates the board with playing a victim. She is what she is and for that she has my respect. She's taken her lumps and paid her dues.


Excuse me? I've said MANY times in this thread that I am POST-OP you tool (I also passed on breast implants so as to see what the hormones would give me, and because they aren't as important a feature in my eyes). I've more than taken my lumps and paid my dues, too.

Thanks to those of you who are being supportive, it means a lot to me. Thanks especially to those who've reached out and offered friendship.

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 1:21:02 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
For me as a heterosexual male, the interest in females is innately visual, auditory, olfactory, tactile, and perhaps in other ways.
 
I do know that it has been established scientifically, that gender interest is strongly associated with the olfactory sense. In heterosexuals males are attracted by people that smell female and females are attracted to people that smell male (though they describe the male smell as slightly repugnant); like sexes have smells that repell heterosexuals. In homosexual men and lesbians this is vice versa: like sex smells attract, other sex smells repell.
 
We may hypothesize that in females that are born with a male body the heterosexual olfactory sense is dominant as determined by their body: they are attracted to female smell and therefore technically identify as lesbians. Transition will not change this gender preference: they will still identify as lesbians. Hypothetically, there may now be a problem: what if, despite the hormonal supplements, they still smell like a male? Before their transition they smelled like a male and could have a relationship with a heterosexual female, but lesbians would not be interested in them, both because of their male parts but especially because they did not smell like a female, but like a male. However, if after transition they still smell like a male, they have got the problem that they will still repell lesbians, nor will heterosexual females have an interest in them any more since they lack the male parts. If this is true, then relation wise, transition is a lose-lose situation for such females, whereas not to transition is a lose-win situation.


Yep, all this smell stuff is something I find really interesting too - although it upsets some I know who dont like to think that all we are really is mobile chemical reactors!

From my own self observations - which concern me only and have no wider implication necessarily, I was always a bit odd smell wise pre HRT in that I didnt smell like men are meant to, or at least as I observed that other men smelled - or from my point of view, stank. In fact I didnt smell at all.

With an HRT regimen well in place I must say I still dont smell as far as I can tell; men have told me I smell like a woman (although that might simply be a combination of soap, make up and moisturiser!) but I dont detect it. Meanwhile the odd (and rather disturbing in many ways considering prior interest solely in females!) thing is that I find many men - whilst still having a strong smell - no longer stink to me but rather their smell can be a turn on.

However, there remains that female smell too to me - very subtle indeed and pleasant (and not soap, make up or moisturiser) - which (perhaps) mitigates against the whole hormonal thing that the change regarding men might be taken to indicate.

Regardless though, its all a bit academic since all in all - unless someone comfortable with my situation comes along whom I also find attractive enough to bother with (male or female) - it just isnt all that important to me any more.

Which brings me back round to Lindsey's situation; I wonder if, with time she might find her interests changing or becoming largely absent as the situation develops? I also very much wonder if, chasing a new relationship (and getting knocked back) as she talks about, is something propelled by the human need for the support and friendship she has lost recently more than a concious and (unfortunate word) "healthy" interest to find a partner?

I hope she will feel able to tell us a little more?

E

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 2:01:53 PM   
DreamGoddess666


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It's probably a little of both. I am wanting to find once again the support and friednship I lost. At the same time, I want to find a soul mate I can connect with on a deep level and spend the rest of my life with because I want someone to share a life with. To me, love is the one thing, more than anything, worth fighting for. Love is the only thing in the world worth anything. It's the only thing that has any real meaning or value. All the material things in the world can't compare to finding that one soul mate, that companion to share life's journey with, love.

< Message edited by DreamGoddess666 -- 5/26/2009 2:02:19 PM >

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 3:34:53 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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just remember, finding a soulmate and love is not easy and normally not something that happens when we seek it and yearn for it....it smacks ya upside the head when you least expect it.....

dont forget to live life and enjoy every day in the mean time.  life IS good.

good luck

_____________________________

yep

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 4:41:12 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

And, yeah, APA certification (especially for those with Gender Dysphoria of any type) is where you're gonna want to go, preferably with a degree in clinical psychology, NOT social work. Any other is not going to be able to tell the difference between TG "issues," and any other "issues" (which may be completely unrelated) such as unipolar depression, manic depression, or any others.



The only difference between a clinical social worker and a clinical psychologist is in the approach they use. Psychologists focus on the negative. Social workers concentrate on building on a person's strengths. From what I've read of the OP's posts throughout this thread, I think the social work approach would bring better results. 

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 6:25:34 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

It's probably a little of both. I am wanting to find once again the support and friednship I lost. At the same time, I want to find a soul mate I can connect with on a deep level and spend the rest of my life with because I want someone to share a life with. To me, love is the one thing, more than anything, worth fighting for. Love is the only thing in the world worth anything. It's the only thing that has any real meaning or value. All the material things in the world can't compare to finding that one soul mate, that companion to share life's journey with, love.


thanks for your honesty - you sound just like me a few years ago

its perfectly human, reasonable and natural of course; there are very few who are not pre-programmed to seek out friends, and that special friend. and youre right to hold these people to be more important than material things.

but (as you have found out) the world is full of false friends, and right now youre very vulnerable I'd guesstimate, to these sorts. you shouldnt withdraw from the world to avoid them (in fact the world is the best place to be), but you need to avoid exposure to them - users, fraudsters et al are rife - and the one place you'll find the particular species attracted to the likes of us is in "the community" (which doesnt actually exist).

the best advice I can give you in all this is to seek out friends on the basis of absolutely anything but your situation. not only for the above reason but also because (as I've said I think) your situation will change (honestly) and friendships based around it will inevitably die when that change occurs. again, dont let your temporary affect or determine your more permanent.

and as for that special friend? well I'm sorry to say that the truth is youre already really really damned lucky in all this that you pass well and will be able to build a normal life in the normal world - for more than this, ie that special friend, we have to be incredibly lucky. that isnt to say it doesnt happen, but rather a counsel not to expect anything.

the problem we have is simple - we're not guys so most women and definitely gay guys dont want us, we're not women (and yes I know that isnt something you like to hear sorry) so most guys and lesbian women dont want us. One might think we were a bisexual's dream person, but even then, they tend to prefer either/or, not both at once (as we're often seen). Of the few trans women I know who have found new partners, the new partners are often other trans women - but that comes with its own problems - two sets of often unresolved baggage do not a happy home make.

and, sorry to say, even if we find someone who has no problem with our situation then that person has to be strong enough and love us enough that they can and will put up with the crap they'll get from family and "friends" over being with us - "ha! couldnt get a real woman!", "are you gay then?" etc etc

this is obviously all very depressing and distressing, but so too is the rejection one gets if one pursues a hunt for that special person in our situation. the message overall though is for you to learn to love yourself enough that you dont need that special person to support you - once you can be your own special friend is when good things will start to happen, genuinely and for real.

E

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 6:45:01 PM   
samboct


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The only difference between a clinical social worker and a clinical psychologist is in the approach they use. Psychologists focus on the negative. Social workers concentrate on building on a person's strengths. From what I've read of the OP's posts throughout this thread, I think the social work approach would bring better results.
 
That's a gross distortion.  Much of the difference has to do with the level of academic training that each has gone through and the qualification process to be accepted into the training programs.  This is not to say that there are not some highly skilled social workers but there are three times as many psychologists who become analysts than social workers (and as noted above- analysts are the most highly trained mental health professionals.) Note that analysis has been dominated by psychiatrists for many years.

In terms of whether the "feel good" approach will bring better results than an approach which relies on understanding where behaviors come from should be evaluated the same way as any other medical procedure.  What are the desired outcomes, and which procedure offers the best chance of achieving them?

There is a certain truth to the joke about how many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?  Ans: one-but it has to want to change.  If the OP wants a band aid and a pat on the back, the social worker approach may make her feel better, but is unlikely to provide lasting results.  If the OP wants to undertake what will undoubtedly be an at times painful process of understanding why she feels alone at this point in her life and what her actions were that brought her to this place- then there is no substitute for a well trained and motivated therapist.  

Note that no therapist works well with all patients- it's a partnership and there is a certain selection process that must take place.

Sam

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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/26/2009 7:11:35 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
Excuse me? I've said MANY times in this thread that I am POST-OP (I also passed on breast implants so as to see what the hormones would give me, and because they aren't as important a feature in my eyes). I've more than taken my lumps and paid my dues, too.



Have you ever sought another transexual for a partner?

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/27/2009 1:23:07 AM   
DreamGoddess666


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Have you ever sought another transexual for a partner?


I've had one other, a pre-op MtF, as a girlfriend. I don't specifically seek out transsexuals, though. I seek out any women, and I'm willing to give a man a chance if he impresses me.

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? - 5/27/2009 3:35:04 AM   
MissDominae


Posts: 94
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
I seek out any women, and I'm willing to give a man a chance if he impresses me.


Then you aren't a lesbian and your problem is solved~!

Being a little less flippant for a moment, being lesbian means - emphatically - that no man COULD impress you as a sexual partner.   I know some lovely men but the idea of having sex with one now leaves me cold.   Yes, I have tried sex with men and was even married for a time because it seemed like the right thing to do (the whole "I am women = must be interested in men" idea) but it was never right or fulfilling for me, despite Les being a very nice and decent person.  

I found my 'true' orientation when I kissed my first woman; that was the first time I discovered that the fireworks and earthquakes the Romance novels spoke of were real after all.   It was well worth the wait .   In a way the discovery made me sad because I was just getting used to being a 'normal' woman, but I am who I am and found in the end I couldn't deny it, so Les and I parted and later divorced.   A couple of years later after leaving Les, I met Trish and we spent the next 11 years together as wife and wife until her passing in 2005.   Those were my truly happy times.   Now I am in a polyamourous Triad with a Master and the girl we share and could have sex with the male whenever I liked.   Despite 'ease of access' and F being a terrific person I simply have no interest in him; I'm happy to only be intimate with my girl and would rather go without than be sexual with him.   However this orientation, I am a lesbian and have come to terms with that.

Is my sexual orientation a case of olfactory identification?   I don't think so - being neither strictly male nor strictly female at birth means the olfactory centre in my brain is as likely to have female pheromone receptors as male ones, and probably has both - but I cannot say for sure (and I'm not letting anyone chop away in there to find out until I'm a corpse).   Who knows why ANY same sex attracted person is the way they are?   No doubt the chemical interraction plays a part in my attraction to other women; just how large a part I cannot say.

If you're willing to give a man a chance then there must be some attraction to men there, so perhaps you would be better off thinking of yourself as bisexual instead.   If the lesbian community is proving unsatisfying then why not expand your horizons and see what comes of it.   You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, including the chance to come to know yourself a little better.

I hope you have some success and much happiness, no matter the gender of your partner.

Blessings ........ Miss D

< Message edited by MissDominae -- 5/27/2009 4:29:00 AM >

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