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RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 2:20:25 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Nice try K, but if you'll read more carefully, you'll see that's CD's statement, not mine.  Hence my specific question.

Oh, I'm sorry. I confess you have me at a disadvantage. My native language is English.

K.






(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 3:35:59 PM   
CruelNUnsual


Posts: 624
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Hey, you are the one who stated that it is Bush's direct quotes are out there...yet you seem unwilling to prove it. 

I actually made that statement?  Where?

Here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, Bush stated that this war was divinely inspired?  I'd love to see the quotes on that... direct quotes of him stating that, not something propped up by the media as showing the influence of religion on Bush.

Damn, that was easy...I thought most everyone had heard of this:

Bush: God Told Me to Invade Iraq....
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1007-03.htm

K.

Nice try K, but if you'll read more carefully, you'll see that's CD's statement, not mine.  Hence my specific question.





YOU posted "Damn that was easy" and a link that puported to be responsive to a request for actual quotes which was anything but. Hence his specific answer.

(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 4:33:06 PM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Nice try K, but if you'll read more carefully, you'll see that's CD's statement, not mine.  Hence my specific question.

Oh, I'm sorry. I confess you have me at a disadvantage. My native language is English.

K.


Feel free to brush up on it then, and re-read my question.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 4:34:48 PM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

YOU posted "Damn that was easy" and a link that puported to be responsive to a request for actual quotes which was anything but. Hence his specific answer.

Hence my providing an actual quote.  Not one backed up by video or actual reporter's notes as per CD's world, but hey, such is the nature of news pieces.  Tough.

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 4:41:39 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		What question? I seriously missed it. I believe Kirata is commenting on this post  HERE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Nice try K, but if you'll read more carefully, you'll see that's CD's statement, not mine.  Hence my specific question.

Oh, I'm sorry. I confess you have me at a disadvantage. My native language is English.

K.


Feel free to brush up on it then, and re-read my question.




_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 4:46:36 PM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

What question? I seriously missed it. I believe Kirata is commenting on this post  HERE



This one:

quote:

I actually made that statement? Where?


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 6:20:04 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		And then you were answered, and I provided the link. I am missing something or there is a serious miscommunication error here. No need to worry, back to the ping pong match, didn;t mean to interupt the game.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 6:33:38 PM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline 		I'm well aware of the post in question.  Bottom line is, CD attributed a statement to me that I did not make, so I called him on it.  Then Kirata made the same error.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 7:39:03 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

And then you were answered, and I provided the link. I am missing something or there is a serious miscommunication error here. No need to worry, back to the ping pong match, didn;t mean to interupt the game.

Hi Orion,

Best I can figure out, CD said he'd like to see a direct quote, Cagey said that's easy and provided a link, and now is trying to score a point over never having actually typed the words, "here is a direct quote." But who knows? I just hope he doesn't try to explain. Judging from the trend so far, it would only make things worse.

Kirata





(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 8:03:14 PM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
And then you were answered, and I provided the link. I am missing something or there is a serious miscommunication error here. No need to worry, back to the ping pong match, didn;t mean to interupt the game.

Hi Orion,

Best I can figure out, CD said he'd like to see a direct quote, Cagey said that's easy and provided a link, and now is trying to score a point over never having actually typed the words, "here is a direct quote." But who knows? I just hope he doesn't try to explain. Judging from the trend so far, it would only make things worse.

Kirata

Actually, you need to work on that "figuring out" bit K.  What CD actually said was:
quote:


I'd love to see the quotes on that... direct quotes of him stating that, not something propped up by the media as showing the influence of religion on Bush.

I chose to respond to the "see the quotes on that" part, and as later posts proved, the rest of it was BS strawman requiring video proof, else a quote just wasn't up to CD's standards.

As for "scoring points", well, if that's what your version of English translates correcting a false accusation as, then well, work on that brushing-up thing too.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/23/2009 8:19:28 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

work on that brushing-up thing.

Yes, I'll get busy on that right away. Thanks so much for the tip. It's been fun.

K.



(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/24/2009 2:53:32 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		As far as I know the accusation that Bush had said God told him what to do, was made after he had met a delegation in the middle east.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/26/2009 7:13:17 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
And then you were answered, and I provided the link. I am missing something or there is a serious miscommunication error here. No need to worry, back to the ping pong match, didn;t mean to interupt the game.

Hi Orion,

Best I can figure out, CD said he'd like to see a direct quote, Cagey said that's easy and provided a link, and now is trying to score a point over never having actually typed the words, "here is a direct quote." But who knows? I just hope he doesn't try to explain. Judging from the trend so far, it would only make things worse.

Kirata

Actually, you need to work on that "figuring out" bit K.  What CD actually said was:
quote:


I'd love to see the quotes on that... direct quotes of him stating that, not something propped up by the media as showing the influence of religion on Bush.

I chose to respond to the "see the quotes on that" part, and as later posts proved, the rest of it was BS strawman requiring video proof, else a quote just wasn't up to CD's standards.

As for "scoring points", well, if that's what your version of English translates correcting a false accusation as, then well, work on that brushing-up thing too.


Actually Cagey, that is B. S..  I never said I required ONLY video proof...what I said was that I wanted a direct quote.  You know the type of quote I am referring to right?  The type where the speaker's words are considered to be coming directly from him, whether it is in the paper or a magazine, and so the reporter uses those funny little items of punctuation called quotation marks. 

See, the New York Times article you cited is a reporter's ...a progressive reporter working for a progressive/liberal newspaper...interpretation of what Bush has said and done, it is not a DIRECT quote of what Bush has said and done.  Sort of like when George Will writes an article commenting on some news topic of the day.  If he is speaking of someone and wants to use their words to damn/praise them, he puts THEIR words in the article but since they are the person in question's real words, he puts Quotation Marks around them.  Another example is when Limbaugh comments on a news item...when he wants to use the speaker's words, he says something along the lines of "here is a DIRECT quote" and then proceeds to read the speakers' words.  If he wants to back it up more, he PLAYS the tape of the speaker saying those words. 

Now then, you still have yet to provide any DIRECT quotation from any of the sources I cited, which I will be happy to provide again:  newspaper article, magazine article, transcript of a radio or television interview wherein George Bush stated DIRECTLY to a reporter that he was on a divine mission from God.

(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/26/2009 7:43:04 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I posted this earlier from the NY Times, but here is Bush's direct quote:


IU Research and Creative Activity Magazine


When George W. Bush addressed the 51st annual National Prayer Breakfast in February 2003, he closed his remarks by invoking providence, with a capital P. "We can be confident in the ways of Providence, even when they are far from our understanding," said the president. "Events aren't moved by blind change and chance. Behind all of life and all of history, there's a dedication and purpose, set by the hand of a just and faithful God." Some six weeks later, Bush launched the invasion that grew into the Iraq war.




(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/26/2009 12:34:36 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Well, I posted this earlier from the NY Times, but here is Bush's direct quote:


IU Research and Creative Activity Magazine


When George W. Bush addressed the 51st annual National Prayer Breakfast in February 2003, he closed his remarks by invoking providence, with a capital P. "We can be confident in the ways of Providence, even when they are far from our understanding," said the president. "Events aren't moved by blind change and chance. Behind all of life and all of history, there's a dedication and purpose, set by the hand of a just and faithful God." Some six weeks later, Bush launched the invasion that grew into the Iraq war.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...so an expression of his belief that things don't just happen randomly, that there are other forces at work...including God... in his personaql life and in historical events somehow leads to his believing that God wanted him to start a war? 

I believe that God's hand is at work in my work.  Does that mean that I make God responsible for what I choose to do with my patients?  Does that mean that God is on my side, no matter how sloppy or shoddy or poorly-thought out my treatment of a particular patient is?  No, that would be a leap... a helluva leap.  What it does mean is that I believe that God is there and watches over me and what I do and that he'll love me even when I fuck up but the decisions that lead me to fuck up are alllllllllllll mine because he also gave me free will and the intelligence and determination not to fuck up.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/27/2009 6:21:22 AM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		No, that doesn't mean what you believe, but if you look at the quote that definitely seems to be what Bush believes.

Did you read the entire article where it discusses the belief in predestination?

If you take this quote, along with several others, considering he is a self-proclaimed "born-again", and then look at other factors like these briefs adorned with combat photos supported by Bible verses it starts to paint a very troubling picture of a man convinced he was doing God's work.


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/27/2009 11:45:17 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, that doesn't mean what you believe, but if you look at the quote that definitely seems to be what Bush believes.

Did you read the entire article where it discusses the belief in predestination?

If you take this quote, along with several others, considering he is a self-proclaimed "born-again", and then look at other factors like these briefs adorned with combat photos supported by Bible verses it starts to paint a very troubling picture of a man convinced he was doing God's work.

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people.”
“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye,” Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost."
"Judaism is a gutter religion".  "This is not the U. S. of A., it is the U.S. of K.K.K.A.". 
The above are all quotes of the man that Obama has claimed as his spiritual mentor.  The man Obama chose to marry his wife and he.  The man he chose to baptize his children.  The man whose sermon title also became the title of one of Obama's books, "The Audacity of Hope", the man whose church Obama has attended for much of his adult life.  The Reverend James Wright.  So...should we believe that Obama also believes what this man does since Obama CHOSE him as his spiritual mentor and pastor?  Should we believe then that Obama really does feel that his "church isn't particularly controversial"?  OR should we believe Obama when he says that, despite his 20 year association with the man, that somehow Obama never heard these beliefs of his pastor...that Obama believes that his minister is "like a cantankerous old uncle who says things that I don't always agree with"?

Which Obama do we believe?  The one DIRECTLY quoted as saying that his church and its leader are not particularly controversial or the one DIRECTLY quoted as saying that his pastor...who Obama made sure to let everyone know was close to retirement...was like a cantankerous uncle saying things that Obama didn't believe?

This thread started out about Bush using Biblical quotes to prove that he was on a divine mission from God in conducting this war.  Yet there have not been any direct quotes yet from Bush putting that statement out there.  What is done...and you have done it yourself in your above post, rule...is jump from one direct quote about his religious beliefs to the fact that field commanders and briefers sent him photos with biblical quotes attached (the commanders/briefers were doing this...NOT Bush) and then jumped to his other religious beliefs to concluding that therefore, he must have believed that God was his supporter in this war and wanted this war.  If that's the way it works, then can we conclude that Obama's DIRECT statement of his church not being controversial AND his decision to keep attending that church AND his decision to title his book after one of the man's sermons means that...in his mind...the Reverend Wright isn't wrong and therefore, non-controversial?  Or do we go with the idea that while Obama believes in God (hmmmmmm, does that mean that God is on his side now?), he doesn't believe in a lot of what his 'spiritual mentor' says?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/27/2009 11:56:24 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

If that's the way it works, then can we conclude that Obama's DIRECT statement of his church not being controversial AND his decision to keep attending that church AND his decision to title his book after one of the man's sermons means that...in his mind...the Reverend Wright isn't wrong and therefore, non-controversial?  Or do we go with the idea that while Obama believes in God (hmmmmmm, does that mean that God is on his side now?), he doesn't believe in a lot of what his 'spiritual mentor' says?

Personally, I think he's just an ambitious politician who picked this church for no other reason than because that was where the people were that he wanted to rub shoulders with to further his career.

K.




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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quote... - 5/27/2009 7:19:15 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Donald Rumsfeld's holy war: How President Bush's Iraq briefings came with quotes from the Bible



The invasion of Iraq in 2003 was sold as a fight for freedom against the tyranny of Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction.

But for former U.S. defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his elite Pentagon strategists, it was more like a religious crusade.

The daily briefings about the progress of the war that Mr Rumsfeld gave to President George W Bush were illustrated with victorious quotes from the Bible and gung-ho photographs of U.S. troops, it has emerged.

The news is certain to anger Muslim critics of the invasion, whose claims that a Christian superpower was trying to overthrow an Islamic nation were rebuffed at the time by the White House.

One of the top-secret 'worldwide intelligence updates', which were hand-delivered to Mr Bush by Mr Rumsfeld, includes an image of an F-18 Hornet fighter jet roaring off from the deck of an aircraft carrier. On it were the words of Psalm 139-9-10: 'If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast, O Lord.'

The cover of another featured pictures of U.S. soldiers at prayer with a quote from Isaiah: 'Whom shall I send and who will go for us? Here I am Lord, Send me.'



www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1184546/



I remember the news reports after the atrocity that was 9/11 and there was Bush, who to me was largely unknown until something he said in response to the atrocity made me think, what a stupid bastard, mention that word means more to the agressor  than revenge. The word was crusade, he was going to launch a holy war against the countries that housed the agressor, for that is what a crusade is, quite literally an expedition undertaken in fulfillment of a solemn vow, to deliver the holy places from mohammedan tyranny . Now, maybe it was an ill choice of word, but maybe not, maybe he thought crusade was the right word, for what he had in mind and if it was, damn him for it.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 59
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