Are we born with any "Right" in your opinion?

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Are we born with any "Right" in your opinion? - 5/31/2009 6:16:43 AM

Crush

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Not ones that are "recognized" by some entity, governmental or otherwise..

What do you see as a "Right" and where do you feel it originates from as a source? a Deity? Nature? or ?

Do we really have the any "rights" or are we just biological entities on a planet doing the best we can to make sure our species continues?

Or is there something "different" about humans vs other animals?

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 7:51:54 AM

Arpig

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I don't feel we have any inate rights. I think we are animals, and fully part of nature (perhaps not one of nature's best experiments, given the destruction we seem to be addicted to)

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 8:05:56 AM

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humans are curious animals indeed; they have the ability to formulate the idea of rights and then coincidentally ask whether they are very much different from animals.

humans are social animals - one species of many social animals so no big difference there. human societies develop cultures - but so do other animals' societies. individual humans express ideas of like and dislike, right and wrong which translate into their shared cultural expression, but so do other animals. humans are able to communicate cultural identity and expression between them, but so can animals.

the big difference - so far as the available evidence so far demonstrates at least - is the capacity of human communication, which appears far more developed than any other animal. sufficiently more developed enough to derive ideas of rights and to communicate and express them - it would appear that no other animal does this.

this must demonstrate that rights are a human invention, provoked by the social nature of the animal and the evolution of its cultural expression, a peculiar evolution in which its ability to communicate has played a major part.

therefore, rights are not innate but conferred by the particular human society and humans are most peculiar animals.

E

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:05:16 AM

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no, i don't feel like we are born with any rights. Humans are not animals, we are humans. Animals are animals.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:07:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

no, i don't feel like we are born with any rights. Humans are not animals, we are humans. Animals are animals.

....humans are a subset of the broader classification, animal. We're both.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:09:31 AM

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quote:

We're both.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. For the record...we are Human, not animals.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:13:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

We're both.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. For the record...we are Human, not animals.

Don't tell me, let me guess.

God created humans just a little over six thousand years ago and evolution is a complete myth.

Am I getting close?

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:15:15 AM

Arpig

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quote:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. For the record...we are Human, not animals.

And just what makes the difference? I mean we fit all the criteria for the definition of animal, so just what makes us not animals?

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:18:54 AM

subtlebutterfly

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However.....each to their own really 'cause another source says: (dictionary.com)
1. any member of the kingdom Animalia, comprising multicellular organisms that have a well-defined shape and usually limited growth, can move voluntarily, actively acquire food and digest it internally, and have sensory and nervous systems that allow them to respond rapidly to stimuli: some classification schemes also include protozoa and certain other single-celled eukaryotes that have motility and animallike nutritional modes. 2. any such living thing other than a human being.
but..in my opinion we're animals...and we're born with certain rights.

haha..dumbass me erased the first part of mi answer according to google definitions animal is:
a living organism characterized by voluntary movement

I'm gonna vote for that one

< Message edited by subtlebutterfly -- 5/31/2009 9:35:30 AM >

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:22:02 AM

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According to Genesis Chapter 1 verses 24-27 God makes a very clear distinctions between Man, and the other living creatures He created. i'm sorry i should have put that with my 1st post just wanted to clear that up.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:30:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

However.....each to their own really 'cause another source says: (dictionary.com)
1. any member of the kingdom Animalia, comprising multicellular organisms that have a well-defined shape and usually limited growth, can move voluntarily, actively acquire food and digest it internally, and have sensory and nervous systems that allow them to respond rapidly to stimuli: some classification schemes also include protozoa and certain other single-celled eukaryotes that have motility and animallike nutritional modes. 2. any such living thing other than a human being.
but..in my opinion we're animals...and we're born with certain rights.

Hi subtlebutterfly, thanks for posting that definition. Yes to each their own i agree..... i also agree with #2 to the definition you posted, but like you said....to each their own.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 9:55:47 AM

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A person is not born with any rights. The word inalienable is misused often. The only rights someone has are those they can enforce via either physical or social force. That is how it has always been, and shall be. If a right can be taken away, it is not inalienable.

There is something different from other animals. Logic and morals are almost exclusively a human condition (I said almost).

A species will adapt or become extinct, and such is the way of nature.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

Not ones that are "recognized" by some entity, governmental or otherwise..

What do you see as a "Right" and where do you feel it originates from as a source? a Deity? Nature? or ?

Do we really have the any "rights" or are we just biological entities on a planet doing the best we can to make sure our species continues?

Or is there something "different" about humans vs other animals?

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 11:26:44 AM

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"Rights" is a human construction and in order to talk of "rights" we separate us from animals. As members of society we have rights and it depends on societal evolution what kind of rights we have. Also, it depends on individual how s/he recognizes, knows, and exercises these rights.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 11:35:45 AM

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Every animal, be it human or other has the right to exist. Something else created that life, so who are we to think otherwise, us being a creation of that something.

When the point comes that humans can create life from man made elements, then we might have a say.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 12:11:15 PM

cpK69

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My thoughts:

I believe humans were giving the ability to achieve liberty; ‘we’ were not given rights.

I liken the difference between mammal and man, similar to comparing the ingredients to make a pie (mammal), and a piece of the pie (man), itself. (New analogy)

The thing is, “Man”, is made up of many different parts put together; each group of personality type represents a part. (Makes me wonder what is possible when all of ‘his’ parts are working together in proper order.)

Kim

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 12:15:35 PM

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The law of nature states otherwise when applied to animals and such. Everything that lives will die, who is to say what causes that death is not part of the same nature/cosmic balance/invisble man/etc?

If faced with life or death, you have the right to defend your life. If you die then you lost that right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Every animal, be it human or other has the right to exist. Something else created that life, so who are we to think otherwise, us being a creation of that something.

When the point comes that humans can create life from man made elements, then we might have a say.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 12:45:32 PM

Arpig

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quote:

According to Genesis Chapter 1 verses 24-27 God makes a very clear distinctions between Man, and the other living creatures He created. i'm sorry i should have put that with my 1st post just wanted to clear that up.

So can I quote, say Lord of The Rings, to support my viewpoints now. I mean they are both works of fiction.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 1:12:53 PM

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I think people are talking at crosspurposes here. Biologically speaking, we're animals. It's only possibly to deny that if you ignore scientific fact.

Whereas breatheasone is arguing that we're not animals in a philosophical/theological sense. While it's not a position I share, I think it's a valid one. If basically unprovable, as philosophical positions tend to be.

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 1:41:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

The law of nature states otherwise when applied to animals and such. Everything that lives will die, who is to say what causes that death is not part of the same nature/cosmic balance/invisble man/etc?

If faced with life or death, you have the right to defend your life. If you die then you lost that right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Every animal, be it human or other has the right to exist. Something else created that life, so who are we to think otherwise, us being a creation of that something.

When the point comes that humans can create life from man made elements, then we might have a say.

That is why I believe suicide though tempting sometimes, is not correct action, we have a life, we must do as we a meant, live that life and let nature take it's course, Against an agressor that means to take your life, you are to defend your life as you are meant to live. But conversely, it is not our right to extinguish a life, but, if through our life preserving actions we inadvertantly cause the extinction of a life, then nature has taken it's course. The premeditated action of taking life is against nature, unless the life that has been extinguished is the reason for life, i.e. food and water, the basics we need to live.

Cows eat grass.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Are we born with any "Right" in your opin... - 5/31/2009 2:51:16 PM

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There are examples of suicide among other species, so who is to say that suicide is not something that may be natural for a human to do? It is often rooted in morals that we are taught by a society that is based upon many judea-christian values. One of those values is that our lives were given to us as a gift, and we should treat it as such.

There are examples of murder among other species, and killing for territorial or breeding rights is something you see in many species. Why not man then? The answer is our ability to have a moral compass that says it is wrong.

To get back to the OP, one only has a right that one can defend or take. That is more in line with nature, even human nature. Now to create a Social Contract, where each person upon birth gain minimal rights, that are protected by the state, is using social pressure, but it is backed by physical force. Authorities of such a state will use even deadly force to protect this right. Then upon reaching some arbitrary age, that such a society determines, that same person gains other rights. These are all determined by humans, and may be different from culture to culture. If they were universal, then all cultures would naturally evolve to have such, but not all cultures do.

I can at this very moment take away someone's right to life, which whether you want to say it is wrong (human morals) or not, it prevents it from actually being inalienable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

That is why I believe suicide though tempting sometimes, is not correct action, we have a life, we must do as we a meant, live that life and let nature take it's course, Against an agressor that means to take your life, you are to defend your life as you are meant to live. But conversely, it is not our right to extinguish a life, but, if through our life preserving actions we inadvertantly cause the extinction of a life, then nature has taken it's course. The premeditated action of taking life is against nature, unless the life that has been extinguished is the reason for life, i.e. food and water, the basics we need to live.

Cows eat grass.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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