IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 4:36:34 PM)

" The UN nuclear watchdog, the IAEA, says traces of undeclared man-made uranium have been found at a second site in Syria, at a reactor in Damascus.
 
The IAEA is investigating US claims that a Syrian site destroyed in a 2007 Israeli raid was a nuclear reactor that was not yet operational.
Separately, the agency says Iran is continuing to enrich uranium in defiance of the UN Security Council.
Both Iran and Syria deny allegations of illicit nuclear activities. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8086565.stm



servantforuse -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 6:32:06 PM)

They know that no one, especially this President will do nothing but talk to stop them..The UN,,bla, bla, bla...



OrionTheWolf -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 6:54:21 PM)

So let us say it is 5 years from now, and Iran and Syria both have medium range nuclear capability. How does that change things in the world?



blacksword404 -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 8:20:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

So let us say it is 5 years from now, and Iran and Syria both have medium range nuclear capability. How does that change things in the world?


Well, then the game changes totally. Strategies will have to be reformulated.



Thadius -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 8:58:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

So let us say it is 5 years from now, and Iran and Syria both have medium range nuclear capability. How does that change things in the world?

Tal Orion,

Obama basicly gave a green light ( a quiet nod and wink) to Iran in his BBC interview where he stated that Iran had the right to develop nuclear power.

As for your 5 years out question...  I don't believe that Israel will sit around that long waiting.  I am actually surprised that they didn't green light a mission like the one the used on Iraq to take out their nuclear capabilities, before Bush left office.  It is a ticking time bomb, Iran has already stated that they want to see Israel wiped off the map, and the nukes would give them the capabilites (especially at that range).  A resolution will never make it through the UN security council as Russia or France would veto anything that limited trade.  The seemingly cordial relationship between Iran and Hugo Chavez  adds another wrinkle to the mix.

This is too deep a topic to think about, especially in the wake of N. Korea and its recent antics....

I wish you well,
Thadius



HeavansKeeper -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 9:00:22 PM)

I get the feeling some of you don't trust Iran with a nuclear research program?



Thadius -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 9:04:16 PM)

What would give you that idea? [;)]

I definitely do not trust them with that type of technology.  Based on their own words... just do a search for just about any speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Hell even if you aren't worried about Israel, how likely would it be for them to sell a missile or 5 to a not so friendly group or county in our own hemisphere?



HeavansKeeper -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 11:43:33 PM)

I completely agree, and do not trust Iran with nuclear capabilities. The problem I was trying to bring up is just that: No world government wants to take the official position: "We don't trust you. We think you'll make nuclear weapons out of your nuclear power and attack Israel or sell your bombs to someone who will."

Without addressing the issue, solving the problem will prove problematic.



Arpig -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/5/2009 11:48:24 PM)

I also do not trust Iran, N. Korea, or Syria (or Israel, India or Pakistan for that matter) with nuclear weapons, but just what the hell are we supposed to do about it? How the hell can we prevent them from developing them if that is their wish, I mean short of invading them or nuking them.



Musicmystery -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 6:29:55 AM)

Well folks, we can't just invade Iran. It's a large, powerful nation. Same with N. Korea, incidentally. War with either would be long, bloody and costly. Bush invaded Iraq because he could--and found it just wasn't so simple. These actions have repercussions.

I wrote a piece just after the Afghanistan invasion about its short-sightedness. Among my concerns was that with pre-emptive invasion, we were demonstrating to other nations, including Iran and Syria, that negotiation with us was pointless, that only power mattered, and that they should--and would--pursue nuclear weapons as their only long term security.

It's a dangerous world, and I'm worried about the consequences. It's also a world we've helped create.



Sanity -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:01:32 AM)


Everyone is innocent, except for us. Is that your point? Because I'm telling you it's naive to think that way. Sure, we've helped create this world - but so has everyone else. They have created us as much as we have created them, and if you go back far enough no one is innocent.

What you seem to be forgetting is that right now Iran is building nuclear bombs. They are telling us that they are building bombs! They come right out and broadcast it, and they're telling the world that as soon as they feel confident that they are ready they are going to commit homicide on a massive scale.

What can we do? Join Israel, and bomb their bomb factories, that's what we can do.

What is NATO for, anyway. Why do we have a UN. Is it all just a joke? Here in the U.S., if you put a kitten in a microwave that's a crime, and most reasonable people would stop anyone who they saw doing that. But we will stand idly by and watch Mahmoud Ahmadinejad build his nukes while openly telling everyone who will listen that he is preparing to kill millions and millions of people?

And you say you're okay with that?

For us to allow this to happen makes us ignorant and uncivilized. Sure, we've helped create today's world, we've done a lot of good. And we're also creating tomorrows world. What will our legacy be?





Crush -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:04:34 AM)

Heck,

Let's just provide them with  nuclear bombs...detonated of course.....DOH! 

That's the problem with carrying a big stick...it can be too big to actually use to defend yourself...



Sanity -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:07:08 AM)


Where's a cowboy when you need one?  [sm=adminwatch.gif]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

Heck,

Let's just provide them with  nuclear bombs...detonated of course.....DOH! 

That's the problem with carrying a big stick...it can be too big to actually use to defend yourself...




Crush -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:22:27 AM)

?



Sanity -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:37:46 AM)


The far left called Ronald Reagan a cowboy, as it were a bad thing.

GW was a cowboy too...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

?



Musicmystery -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:38:03 AM)

quote:

Everyone is innocent, except for us. Is that your point?

Please stop hearing voices of others in your head when you respond to me. Take issue with my actual points, not the ones you frequently, mistakenly and gratuitously attribute to me. Conversation might become sane.

quote:

What you seem to be forgetting is that right now Iran is building nuclear bombs.

I know. I even discussed that in my post you deliberately misread. I even pointed out that our past naive actions contributed.

quote:

But we will stand idly by and watch Mahmoud Ahmadinejad build his nukes while openly telling everyone who will listen that he is preparing to kill millions and millions of people?

If only life were as simple as in your imagination. Just bomb Iran, and everything will be fine. No consequences. Everything will neatly fall into place.

Look, such an invasion is always possible. No doubt our military is prepared just in case. But we have a history of causing as many problems as we "solve" by hot-headed, single-minded short term thinking---like arming war lords in Afghanistan in the 80s, for example, or invading Iraq. An attack on Iran will make us long for our current state of the economy and relative peace. It's an extreme last resort, as the cost would be unbelievably high. Other routes are necessary.

It's not hard to see why Iran and Syria want nuclear weapons either. If you were there, you'd be urging them to work quickly. That we might bomb you first would be all the more reason to redouble your efforts.

quote:

And you say you're okay with that?

Show me again where I said that? Really, you've got to do something about those voices in your head.

Unfortunately, Iran probably will attain nuclear arms within the next five years. Keep in mind that using them would be costly to Iran as well. But the world isn't as simple as the voices say.


"For every complex situation, there's always a simple solution--and it's always wrong."
--H. L. Menchen

"We cannot solve the significant problems we face with the same thinking we used when we created the problem."
--Albert Einstein





Sanity -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:51:45 AM)


I knew you would respond with a personal attack. Confronting reality makes your head want to explode, doesn't it? (Not that I'm totally immune to that myself  [;)]). 

Totally understandable.

I said nothing about an invasion, air strikes aren't invasions.

And something else you won't face is that Ahmadinejad isn't concerned with consequences - he has Allah on his side. We have massive air superiority on ours - and we need to use it.

Navel-gaze all you want, it doesn't do any good. The world is fully aware that the Jews are going into the ovens again, Ahmadinejad is openly proclaiming that. The only question is, how will we respond this time.




Musicmystery -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:54:21 AM)

*Sigh*

It's been a long time since I've played this game. Is this the part where I'm supposed to say "Your mother wears army boots?"

So pointing out that you've attributed things I've neither said nor thought is "responding with a personal attack."

OK. Got it.

It will take me a while to learn this new system.





Sanity -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 7:57:31 AM)


That's what you've reduced yourself to already, in this as well as in your previous post.

Forget about attacking the messenger - what about Ahmadinejad?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

*Sigh*

It's been a long time since I've played this game. Is this the part where I'm supposed to say "Your mother wears army boots?"






Sanity -> RE: IAEA say Iran and Syria still working on nuclear capabilities (6/6/2009 8:03:57 AM)


Interesting. You're unaware that you're even doing it... [:D]

THESE are personal attacks:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Please stop hearing voices of others in your head

Take issue with my actual points, not the ones you frequently, mistakenly and gratuitously attribute to me. Conversation might become sane.

I even discussed that in my post you deliberately misread.

If only life were as simple as in your imagination.

Really, you've got to do something about those voices in your head.

But the world isn't as simple as the voices say.




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