RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/16/2009 5:57:29 PM

numuncular

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I've made it onto redwatch now as a consequence of the election and the demos...

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/16/2009 6:51:11 PM

LadyEllen

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Congrats!

Nothing like as glamorous of course but it looks like our friends on SF may be on to me too.....

E

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/16/2009 6:56:48 PM

numuncular

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their terrible pictures though, if I'd have known and i have brushed my hair.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/16/2009 7:19:47 PM

LadyEllen

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best to shave it short for such events; play your cards right and MI5 will have two files on you for every demo! plausible deniability whichever side you get in trouble for!

E

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/16/2009 8:14:39 PM

numuncular

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

best to shave it short for such events; play your cards right and MI5 will have two files on you for every demo! plausible deniability whichever side you get in trouble for!

E

ha. maybe, though I look silly with a crop.

was once on a huge demo in leeds back in 94 that got a bit lively.. and when we were on the coaches back to sheffield, the traffic lights myysteriously stopped for literally a quarter of an hour plus with a big line of coaches waiting to get to the motorway whilst a couple of blokes came up on motorbikes, got off, walked along the side of the coaches taking lots of photos, got back on the bikes and then the lights turned green.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/17/2009 7:38:55 AM

LadyEllen

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I hope they got your good side!

I'd have been arrested of course, or had my file stamped at the least - 'cause I'd have taken pictures of them too!

As an aside in all this, whats your view on Searchlight? Having read how they are MI5 run and playing both sides, but not really knowing a great deal on it all, I wondered what the word is?

E

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/17/2009 8:41:18 AM

JonnieBoy

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BNP fanclub member : Von Brunn

http://www.anorak.co.uk/politicians/213069.html

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/17/2009 11:56:45 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

As an aside in all this, whats your view on Searchlight? Having read how they are MI5 run and playing both sides, but not really knowing a great deal on it all, I wondered what the word is?

E

Do you have a source for this please ? It sounds like another wild conspiracy story to me.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/17/2009 2:06:48 PM

LadyEllen

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I found the article whilst idly surfing a week or so ago (a link from a link from a link sort of thing); from what I remember my first search was for Athena McHugh (one time East Anglia organiser for the BNP (or might have been NF)) after I found something else that said she had been a he, which I found interesting to say the least!

From what I recall, the premise was that Searchlight had been an MI5 agency for decades and was working both sides so to speak, by way of "honey traps" (a term the article used) to bring in extremists from right and left. It also claimed that the leadership of "Column 88" was MI5 and that Combat 18 was heavily infiltrated too. The article also said that of late many left wing groups and anti-nazi organisations had twigged Searchlight as being compromised.

Overall, it was poorly written but made a good conspiracy story - I have no idea as to its veracity, which is why I was asking N, who seems likely to be more clued up on this sort of thing

E

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/17/2009 2:15:55 PM

Apocalypso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
As an aside in all this, whats your view on Searchlight? Having read how they are MI5 run and playing both sides, but not really knowing a great deal on it all, I wondered what the word is?

Personally, I'd advise avoiding Searchlight like the plague. I think saying they're run by MI5 is probably a step to far- they trade information with the security services, but I don't see them as an MI5 satellite per se. But they have falsely accused antifascists they disagree with of being fascists. And they have a tendency to subordinate everything to their own agenda, including the physical safety of antifacists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Do you have a source for this please ? It sounds like another wild conspiracy story to me.

Start with http://libcom.org/library/searchlight-and-the-state There's a lot of other articles around, but this is one of the more sober ones that sticks to verifiable facts.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/17/2009 3:56:02 PM

Vendaval

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Fast Reply -

One of you folks across the Pond needs to write a great script about all these goings on.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/17/2009 6:01:22 PM

numuncular

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I found the article whilst idly surfing a week or so ago (a link from a link from a link sort of thing); from what I remember my first search was for Athena McHugh (one time East Anglia organiser for the BNP (or might have been NF)) after I found something else that said she had been a he, which I found interesting to say the least!

From what I recall, the premise was that Searchlight had been an MI5 agency for decades and was working both sides so to speak, by way of "honey traps" (a term the article used) to bring in extremists from right and left. It also claimed that the leadership of "Column 88" was MI5 and that Combat 18 was heavily infiltrated too. The article also said that of late many left wing groups and anti-nazi organisations had twigged Searchlight as being compromised.

Overall, it was poorly written but made a good conspiracy story - I have no idea as to its veracity, which is why I was asking N, who seems likely to be more clued up on this sort of thing

E

its surely no secret that mi5 infiltrates everything but surely not c18, which was never more than football hooligans bored of not being able to kick off at the match anymore... and barely exists now.

but to answer your question I dont know very much about searchlight really, I've friends who have ran some far left groups you'd have heard of locally, but I'm not aware of searchlight doing much round here, I always thought it was a london thing.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 3:07:56 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09
If they gain power at the ballot box it is indeed ''fine'' as that is what the people will have decided they want regardless of our own views.

So we shouldn't have gone to war against Hitler?

Actually no we shouldn't have.

And the idea that it was a fight against Fascism is naive to say the least.

Starbuck is spot on. When the day comes that the majority of people in this country vote for the BNP then we're knackered anyway. It won't happen though.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 3:10:08 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

I'm not sure the BNP share your belief in fair play...

It's nothing to do with 'fair play'. The point is that there's a reason why we have the rule of law in this country: it's so the likes of you and the BNP for that matter don't run 'round like a self-appointed judge and jury deciding who is and isn't acceptable.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 3:25:29 PM

numuncular

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09
If they gain power at the ballot box it is indeed ''fine'' as that is what the people will have decided they want regardless of our own views.

So we shouldn't have gone to war against Hitler?

Actually no we shouldn't have.

And the idea that it was a fight against Fascism is naive to say the least.

mindboggling....

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 3:40:44 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09
If they gain power at the ballot box it is indeed ''fine'' as that is what the people will have decided they want regardless of our own views.

So we shouldn't have gone to war against Hitler?

Actually no we shouldn't have.

And the idea that it was a fight against Fascism is naive to say the least.

mindboggling....

A counter argument would be useful.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 4:40:53 PM

numuncular

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it'd be a bit like arguing with someone whos just said theres no oxygen in the air.

really you throw something out like we shouldnt have gone to war with hitler, how can I provide a counter argument when all you've done is make an outlandish statement?

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 4:47:21 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

it'd be a bit like arguing with someone whos just said theres no oxygen in the air.

really you throw something out like we shouldnt have gone to war with hitler, how can I provide a counter argument when all you've done is make an outlandish statement?

I presumed you'd come up with something more substantial than 'mindboggling' - I suppose I'm too generous.

If it helps: from an idealistic point of view we are not the saviours of continental Europe; from a pragmatic and economic point of view it was not a good idea to get involved in a war in order to preserve our empire - we should have followed the tried and tested method of steering clear of contintental disagreements which had proved so successful in the past.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 5:00:40 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

its surely no secret that mi5 infiltrates everything but surely not c18, which was never more than football hooligans bored of not being able to kick off at the match anymore... and barely exists now.

Your wrong about Combat 18. While some clubs had Combat 18 members among the hooligan gangs, the numbers where never great. At Chelsea there was often problems between C18 and the original skinheads.

C18 itself was a breakaway group from the BNP, this was in the early 90s when the BNP tried to become more acceptable politically. Its now the security arm of blood and honour.

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RE: the BNP, the UAF and free speech - 6/18/2009 5:15:01 PM

numuncular

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I'm not sure what you're saying I'm off about... but c18 are not much more than a bogeyman now

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