Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

BDSM or abuse?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Health and Safety >> BDSM or abuse? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 12:58:18 PM   
asdf1234


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/11/2009
Status: offline
I have nowhere else to turn to for advice on this - even my therapist refused to comment (typical). So if you can endure a long post, I REALLY need some help. Also, I know mixing drugs and sex is not SSC...don't need the lecture.

Background:
I've been in an abusive relationship before, and swore to myself NEVER AGAIN, kinda a feminist pact that at the first sign of violence I would end a relationship. Now, I don't know whether to stick to that or give my current partner another chance.

I'm living with a man I've been dating for 7 months. We are NOT 24/7 and I'm generally NOT submissive outside the bedroom, and not particularly sub inside the bedroom either (I like S/M and some bondage, but only when we BOTH want it, and my sex drive is considerably lower than his). We've also agreed not to take emotions out in the bedroom, keep BDSM strictly "scene-ish" and logical.

The man is a total sweetheart, dealing with my mental health issues and taking care of me and my bullshit. Very kind and caring, not a dick at all. Or that's what I'd say, until now. Oh, and he's completely moved in with very big things into my apartment.

Recently, about a month ago, our sex life started declining and I thought about breaking it off before he was completely moved into my place. We discussed this, and in his desperation he agreed to an open relationship, even though he hates them - he thinks that if I explore I'll be ready to settle. I agreed, because it wasn't all bad, and maybe he could be right.

So the other night, for the first time, I spent a night with someone else. He spent the night alone, unable to sleep and called into work the next day - he was really distraught. But we talked it over afterwards, had some good sex (the first in a LONG time), and things seemed to be OK.

Problem:
Until later in the night (the one after I'd been with someone else), when he wanted sex and I didn't. Every time before this, a few "no"s is all it takes and he'll leave me alone - as I said, not submissive in bed. This time, he suggested that I take a large quantity of Valium (puts me out of it, don't care about anything that's going on, just kinda blurry in my mind) to enact a scene where I'm really out of it and he's taking advantage. That sounded fun to me, so I agreed, but the FIRST thing I said was NO ANAL PLAY. He said he thought it would add to the "taken advantage of" feeling and I repeated my NO and he agreed.

Also, before the Valium had kicked in, he suggested that to put me really out of it that we use this inhalant stuff that you use to clean computers. I said NO, that I didn't trust it not to kill brain cells, he argued that I'd be fine as long as I didn't lose too much O2, but I reiterated the NO. I've done this inhalant a few time long ago, but since then - for months now - I've turned it down because I don't trust the chemicals and he KNOWS this.

So here comes the sex. As soon as I'm really out of it and don't give a fuck on the Valium, while we're having sex, he starts blowing the inhalant into my face and hell, it felt GOOD, so I didn't object because I did not care and was not thinking of brain cells (Valium). As soon as I'd start to come off of it (it makes it so you have no idea what the fuck is going on) he'd spray me again.

Then came the anal play. I think he started with a small plug, which I didn't really notice, and then he starts shoving his cock up there. I managed to say OW between major peaks of the hits and he did stop that pretty quickly. He continued to fuck me with the spray until he let it lapse a bit and I expressed that the anal was NOT COOL, at which point the sex stopped and we talked.

He apologized for the anal, but insists that I never said no to the inhalant. I know for sure I did BEFORE the Valium OD kicked in, though I also know after the Valium kicked in I did not protest. He says at no point, before or after, did I say no inhalant, and this is just a lie.

Solution?:
Basically, after we'd stopped fucking, I told him never to talk of what happened again, because sometimes on high doses of Valium I can't remember what happened. However, what I took was 1/5 of what I'd need to take to get even a BIT of that effect, so I remember it all. Clearly. The next day I woke up early and acted super-nice to him, but today I'm grumpy and brewing with anger but have not told him why.

Advice:
I don't know how to go forth. Stop moping and fake it til I make it? It's not something that could easily happen again - but the fact that he took aggression out on me in that manner makes me really uncomfortable, and now I'm imagining all the other ways shit could go down (drunken bondage past set limits/mindfucks at inappropriate/sensitive times...etc). Logically, and according to my politics, I "should" kick him out of the apartment....but there's so much stuff of his here, it'd be a huge hassle, he has no job to go back home to, etc....

None of what happened that night jives with anything that's happened before, he's not an aggressive or angry person...but then again, in the past abusive relationship it didn't start for a few months, then stopped after we discussed it, and when it re-surfaced we were too entangled for me to just get out quickly. Which is what I don't want to happen here.

Basically, how do I make sure this is a one time thing due to extenuating circumstances (last time, with the other guy, talking and promises after the first time only delayed things) - or can I? What would you do? Wait to see if it happens again? What if we're too entrenched (I get more dependent on him every day - mental health, etc.)? I know how the conversation will go down, he'll deny the inhalant thing and it'll sound like kicking him out is excessive. Is this a trait that only comes up in people who are LIKE that, or could someone just be pushed to that (due to the open relationship he does not want)?

I don't know, I'm just telling my story and hoping for feedback/advice etc from people who are in similar kinky relationships (I know in 24/7 this would be acceptable, but we are not that).
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 1:19:49 PM   
GYPZYQUEEN


Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline
SAFE? NO
SANE? NO
CONSENSUAL?NO

BDSM-NO
ABUSE-YES

HEALTHY? NO
COMMUNICATION? NO


AWARENESS OF DRUG ISSUES..YES
AWARENESS OF ABUSE..YES
AWARENESS OF CHOICES-YES

KNOWING IT MAY HAPPEN AGAIN-YES
KNOWING THERE  IS CO-DEPENDENCY-YES
KNOWING IT IS FUKKED UP-YES

KINKY RELATIONSHIP-NO
ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP-YES

ABUSE+CO-DEPENDENCY+DRUGS+ANGER+DANGER+      =

A TIME BOMB


POTENTIAL DANGER -HIGH

WILL IT  PROGRESS? YES
 
You are totally AWARE of what is going to happen..take it or leave it..
MAKE A CHOICE FOR YOU
 
GQ

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 1:26:38 PM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline
in BDSM you play by safe sane consensual. You also don't do it when under the influence.
You ever heard of inhalant abuse?
1. I don't think you're ready for a relationship (but what do I know)
2. He's a prick
3. It's simply fucking when high and has nothing to do with bdsm.

*thinking GQ answered it perfectly n refers to it*


< Message edited by subtlebutterfly -- 6/11/2009 1:32:57 PM >


_____________________________

~Ms. Awesomeness to YOU!~

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 1:28:21 PM   
asdf1234


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/11/2009
Status: offline
Thanks for the responses...um...don't suppose anyone out there could give me a RACK perspective on the situation?

(in reply to subtlebutterfly)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 1:46:09 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline
Honey, I have mental illness and I would not allow the shit that happen to you to happen to me (exe-hubby did and I tore him a new one when I was remembering it).

He is an abusive jealous bastard and for your health and safety, get him out of there.

GQ has it right now. If you did not go into detail with your therapist (I don't about my BDSM), s/he has no opinion about what to do. You have to cowgirl up and take your life in your hands and take control of the situation.

_____________________________

Goddess of Yarn

You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

Founder: Bitch with Tits

Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 2:03:31 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
Why do you need a RACK perspective?  This man intentionally and knowingly violated your limits.  You are worried that kicking him out will seem "excessive"?  Who the fuck cares?  It's your apartment, he did something you told him no to, whether he agrees or not.  His lack of a job to go back to, your mental health issues, etc.  are all just ways of trying to talk yourself out of getting rid of him.  You say you've been in an abusive relationship before.  Forget about the signs HE shows of heading down that path.  Look at the signs YOU are showing, i.e. making excuses for his behavior, trying to figure out how to make it "right", reasoning why you shouldn't dump him.  Do these all remind you of the last time? 

It seems a little bit like you don't like being alone, and that may be understandable, BUT would you rather be alone or dead?  Inhalents are very dangerous, you admit to knowing that.  What's next?  He slips something into your drink to add to the "fun"?

Your choices are yours to make.  This isn't about you playing under the influence.  This is about what HE did while you were under the influence which had clearly been discussed before.  You should be very concerned about what can happen in the future.  You shouldn't be concerned about how he (or anyone else) will view your throwing him out.  He has no job to go back to, but does he work where he is?  I get the feeling he doesn't and is living off of you.  Begrudgingly accepting the "open relationship" because he would lose the roof over his head, but getting "his" by talking you into things you don't want. 

Bad idea all around.  Stop worrying about how he will feel and think about yourself.

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 2:09:44 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
it would be hard to prove, and probably humiliating as hell (luckily we like that stuff huh), but if this happened to me, id call the law and have him arrested.

ill spare you the drugs speech........im sure youve given it to your self enough by now.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 2:19:48 PM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline
Fuck RACK, you don't scene on drugs, period.

You say he hates open relationships. I'm sure this is his revenge fuck for you sleeping with someone else.

The guy's dangerous.


[Edited cos I don't need to ask)

< Message edited by Fitznicely -- 6/11/2009 2:22:31 PM >


_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 2:56:28 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
If your mental health issues are getting in the way of sound reasoning then maybe they need better managing.
If your therapist is not helping you then maybe you need a different one.

Not only is the drug abuse (exceeding dosage plus the inhalant) troublesome because of mixing it with scening, but too, it interferes with the treatment for your illness.

He violated you by going past several agreed upon limits and beyond that minimising his responsibility is abuser-type behavior.



_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to Fitznicely)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 3:16:09 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
There's soooo many things wrong with the scenario you wrote that I can't even begin to start somewhere except to say....

get to a therapist who actually WILL talk to you about it and leave that man at the side of the road before you end up addicted or dead.

Good luck!

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 3:19:33 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asdf1234
don't suppose anyone out there could give me a RACK perspective on the situation?
Don't get high round wankers you can't trust.  Certainly don't get high and play with wankers you can't trust.


_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 3:30:47 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I "should" kick him out of the apartment....but there's so much stuff of his here, it'd be a huge hassle, he has no job to go back home to, etc....


You need to figure out how dependent he is on you, and whether he now feels he can do what he wants without consequences. From what you write it looks like an abusive relationship, one in which his initial control only lasted until he moved in with you, and now the veneer is coming off. He has progressed to where he is using the drugs to do as he pleases, and only you can figure out whether that will get worse or not.

You're giving the indicators yourself, so I can only add that these types of situations more often than not get worse. You've chosen to put yourself at risk, not unusual at your age, you now need to figure out how much you need to be on that edge to be happy. It really is a simple tradeoff, you seem sensible enough to be able to make that assessment, I think you probably already have.

Just make sure you have a friend around if you do boot him, because he is going down the big black hole, you're putting him there, and people sometimes do weird stuff when that happens.

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 3:56:09 PM   
sleazybutterfly


Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asdf1234


I don't know, I'm just telling my story and hoping for feedback/advice etc from people who are in similar kinky relationships (I know in 24/7 this would be acceptable, but we are not that).


WHAT??!!!!

What on this good green earth makes you think that???

I am 24/7 and I know many that are..under NO CIRCUMSTANCES is this okay. 


_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious

Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 5:01:44 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
It's date rape. He drugged you and hurt you.
There is no excuse. He found that he couldn't handle what he had agreed to, tough shit. The appropriate thing would have been to talk about it and say he can't go down this path. Not to drug you and sodomize you.

Perhaps you should consider that the reason he has no job and no family that will let him move back in is because of his attitude. He gets told stuff he doesn't like, has to deal with things he doesn't like and he becomes abusive.

Move his stuff to a storage unit, pay the first month's rent for it, change the lock on the door. When he comes by to get stuff he left there, make sure several large male friends/family are there to deal with him. He becomes loud, threatening, etc you call the police.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to sleazybutterfly)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 5:09:09 PM   
Pyrmidon


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline
This is Date Rape, pure, plain and simple..

As an LEO, had occasion to deal with far too many similar scenarios.

Not about to lecture anybody, but....You have the messages sent in response to your query from the others here. They have hit the nail, squarely on the head..

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 5:27:56 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
The thing that is concerning me is that you have played around with the inhalant, overdosing of valium, and combining them all of your own accord long before this.  This is a toxic situation.  Time to get it to an end and deal with your own demons and leave his for him to battle. 

lovingpet

(in reply to Pyrmidon)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 6:47:46 PM   
SmokingGun82


Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asdf1234

Thanks for the responses...um...don't suppose anyone out there could give me a RACK perspective on the situation?


There's not some cutesy acronym that's going to make everything ok. Some people won't do anything with any chemical alteration, some people limit themselves to one/two drinks or minor activities, some people just don't give a fuck and will do anything at any time.

You told him not to do something, he did it. In my book, that's rape. And not the staged scene "fun" type... the "He deserves his balls bitten off by rabid rats" type. If you're ok with the fact he raped you, and accept that HE WILL DO IT AGAIN... then stick it out.

Otherwise, DTMFA.


_____________________________

It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
- Bob Dylan

Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 7:04:46 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5171
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

Thanks for the responses...um...don't suppose anyone out there could give me a RACK perspective on the situation?


Sure I will.  Safe, Sane, and Concentual versus Risk-Aware Concentual Kink.

You notice anything similar??  You did NOT consent to inhale the one substance, in fact you said you did NOT want it.  You did NOT consent to have anal sex, in fact you said you did NOT want it. 

So do you think Concentual in SSC has a different definition from the Concentual in RACK? 

(in reply to asdf1234)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 8:23:56 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline
It's not your job to tell people how they do or do not scene, if they find the risks acceptable, then they're  falling under the banner of risk aware consensual kink.

Now, if things go wrong, it's their own fault But still it's their right to access the risks and if found suitable play under the influence.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

Fuck RACK, you don't scene on drugs, period.

You say he hates open relationships. I'm sure this is his revenge fuck for you sleeping with someone else.

The guy's dangerous.


[Edited cos I don't need to ask)

(in reply to Fitznicely)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: BDSM or abuse? - 6/11/2009 9:21:28 PM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline
Topping: That's some pretty serious, dangerous edgeplay. It's my understanding that even among RACK-players, being stoned out of your tree is pretty much a no-no.

Look at it this way: If you're assessing the risks and don't take the altered perceptions and priorities that drugs of pretty much any kind inevitably bring with them seriously....well, if you find that acceptible when doing edge-play, I, for one, don't wanna play with you.

< Message edited by Fitznicely -- 6/11/2009 9:25:14 PM >


_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Health and Safety >> BDSM or abuse? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.203