RE: Repressed Memory

RE: Repressed Memory (Full Version)

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GreedyTop -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 12:17:48 AM)
http://www.psychologytoday.com/search/query?keys=repressed+memory

Kalista07 -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 12:21:57 AM)
slaveboyforyou Could you explain what your mean by repressed memories being 'like psychiatry and a pseudoscience'... This statement confuses me greatly..... i can understand Your skepticism... Why 30 years though? At what point would You feel like there was less skepticism? 10 years? 15? 13? And at what point do You consider it skeptical? Is it from the point the last abuse discontinues or from the point it began? Kali

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 12:35:01 AM)
quote: Could you explain what your mean by repressed memories being 'like psychiatry and a pseudoscience'... Repressed memory theory comes from psychiatry which is a pseudoscience. It's not a natural science; it's not held to the same standards of research. Now let me explain that; I'm not a scientology nut. I think psychiatry can be beneficial to many people. But it's not a science in the true definition of the word. A lot of it bogus in my opinion. Repressed memories are one of those things that I skeptical about. I do understand that people push traumatic experiences out of their thoughts for survival purposes. But I also believe that people with emotional problems, mental disabilities, and young children are extremely susceptible to overzealous therapists. I remember the scores of people coming out in the 80's claiming they were victims of Satanic cults through supposed revelations brought forth in therapy. It was all bullshit, and a lot of people went to prison because of it.

NihilusZero -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 12:54:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 If you believe that somewhere in a bunch of neurons you have encoded some memory that you can later recall, you're wrong. It just doesn't work that way. At least, not usually. It's still an area of neurobiology that isn't entirely lit yet (studies dedicated to deciphering the rare abilities of savants and how they happen do suggest that it's possible for certain sorts of imprints to happen). However, I otherwise agree with you (and many others) that the concept of repressed memory is bunk in terms of yielding any reliable past pieces of information and outright dangerous in its ability to generate false ones.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 1:08:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FawneTwo Thoughts on recovered memory? Opinions please. I want you to perform an experiment. I want you to write two different sentences, on two different pieces of paper. Fold one up and put it in a little lock-box, and do not peek at it. Fold the other one up and put it in an envelope. Remind yourself every hour for a day which sentence is in which place. Tomorrow, change your mind - remind yourself every hour the other way. Do not cheat and write any other information down; you are going only by memory. And when you do this, I want you to really visualize each sentence in its place. Visualize every little fold and crinkle of the paper, every little whorl of your handwriting. I want both versions to be as vivid as you can make them. Switch back and forth each day. At some point in the process, decide which side it really is, and fixate on that for a full week. Then write down which one you think is where. Then open the box. Perform this experiment six different times, with the same two sentences - mixing up which one you put where each time. Note how many times you remember correctly, and how many times you remember incorrectly. Then tell me your thoughts on recovered memory, or "memory" of any kind whatsoever. Full disclosure: I have performed this experiment, and variations thereof, on myself several times. It's... enlightening.

TANTRADD -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 1:23:45 AM)
I can say without a DOUBT I repressed memories until age 27...when a flood came back under hypnosis..and right after the death of my father. I had had glimpses of things over the years and mental health issues as well as physical evidence of trauma.. As I recovered the memories I went on to CONFRONT one person( my uncle) and found indeed what I remembered was true....the closet..the barn..near death by hanging...sexual abuse and threats etc. I ALSO agree that many fragile beings are suceptible to being led and making a memory in order to make sense of things..THE mind is INFINATE. I HAVE another BELIEF as well..it is mine and a few others I BELIEVE that some of the repressed memories are PAST LIVES or a collective memory of ancestors or family.........cell DNA memory/ T

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 1:30:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TANTRADD I BELIEVE that some of the repressed memories are PAST LIVES or a collective memory of ancestors or family.........cell DNA memory/ hooo-kay then. Can you propose a mechanism for this? Because I'd love to work with this worldview for a few cycles, but I'd need to have a good grasp of what I'm committing to before I see things from your perspective.

Kalista07 -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 9:19:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero However, I otherwise agree with you (and many others) that the concept of repressed memory is bunk in terms of yielding any reliable past pieces of information and outright dangerous in its ability to generate false ones. No offense intended her NihilusZero...But, it is statements like this one that bother me beyond understanding. How can You just totally discount another human being's experience? Now, i can understand saying that someone's memory can not be (by virtue of being a memory) 100% accurate, but i fail to understand how You can categorize my experience as"bunk". i'm confused, Kali

NihilusZero -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 10:17:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 No offense intended her NihilusZero...But, it is statements like this one that bother me beyond understanding. How can You just totally discount another human being's experience? It's not the experience. It is the combination of a flawed system of supposedly extracting former experiences and the human predisposition to attach irrelevant interpretations to experiences. This is no different than the cold reading done by death-mediums like John Edward. As soon as there is a hit, the individual attaches a permanent stamp of approval on the concept because the odds fell in a way that it worked for him/her. It's like going out and buying a $5 lottery ticket and winning $500...and then deciding that buying $5 lottery tickets "works" and dumping your entire savings account into buying more. quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 Now, i can understand saying that someone's memory can not be (by virtue of being a memory) 100% accurate, but i fail to understand how You can categorize my experience as"bunk". i'm confused, Kali Your experiences/memories either are or they are not. The 'repressed memory idea' is bunk as far as being able to accurately determine which are which.

Kalista07 -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 10:57:37 AM)
quote: It is the combination of a flawed system of supposedly extracting former experiences and the human predisposition to attach irrelevant interpretations to experiences. This is no different than the cold reading done by death-mediums like John Edward. As soon as there is a hit, the individual attaches a permanent stamp of approval on the concept because the odds fell in a way that it worked for him/her. ohhh..i see where You are coming from now...Let me just make sure i am understanding You correctly...So, it's your belief than that what happens (essentially) for a person who experiences repressed memories is that they are looking for this issue to be validated or confirmed? Is that an accurate portrayal of Your belief? Kali

NihilusZero -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 11:57:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 So, it's your belief than that what happens (essentially) for a person who experiences repressed memories is that they are looking for this issue to be validated or confirmed? Is that an accurate portrayal of Your belief? Kali Partially (it's not always the case). Like hypnosis, it's a concept that relies on willing suggestiveness. It's not as if people want to believe some relative sexually abused them as a child when it didn't happen, it's both the process of being too openly malleable to the possibility of something without prior evidence and the malpractice of psychiatrists who have convinced themselves of the efficacy of a flawed system, thereby being prone to inject suspicion. Will some people have experiences they've forgotten which can perhaps be recalled later on? Sure. But the process used by repressed-memory psych-folk is not any more reliable at recovering a lost memory than it is at creating a new false one. And, depending on the type of memory wrought, the result can be horribly damaging.

Kalista07 -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 12:35:13 PM)
quote: he malpractice of psychiatrists who have convinced themselves of the efficacy of a flawed system, thereby being prone to inject suspicion. See, for a minute there i was actually giving You some validity in thinking You might actually know what You were speaking of..... However, it's apparent to me that this is not so much the case. Most psychiatrists today do not do therapy...In fact most patients who actually see a psychiatrist are only slotted for 5-10 minute time slots, because truly the only real purpose of psychiatrist is to do medication management. Now, had you said psychologist or psychiatric social workers or even clinical social workers, You might have gotten some buy in from me. For the record, thinking that i had been sexually abused by my father was the very last thing on earth that i thought i would have or even could have repressed..... In no way, shape, or form was i just siting idly by waiting for some scandalous therapist to 'plant' these memories in me. Not to mention the fact that i'm a pretty freaking strong willed and strong minded individual who does not just buy into namby pamby bullshit. For the record, as i've previously stated here, if it weren't for the work i did in therap [ And yes, i have no problem saying the work i did, because my therapist never suggested anything to me in regard to the past.{..The only thing she did was act as a good sounding board for me}] i would be one sick ass, hostage taking, drunk ass bitch... Again, this is just my experience combined with my education about this particular topic. Kali

DragonNphoenix -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 12:37:25 PM)
I dont know if I believe in recovered memories or not. I my 'job' I do past life regression. I have found it hard in my experience to not lend anything to the regression. I would think that that would be the same for recovered memories. I think that if the person 'leading' the memory recovery lends any of their beliefs to it then the memory can not be held in much standing. But that is just the thought of one person. I, on the other hand, have had memories surface after 30 years. Now, this was not the result of hypnosis or anything. I was at a point in my life where I felt safe and the memories began to surface. But, they were also backed by statements from my family and by events that were recorded that happened at that time. It is a very touchy subject. Phe

TANTRADD -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 1:48:50 PM)
RE: bunk..suspicion...yielding info..relaibility MY MEMOREIS WERE BACKED UP BY THE ACTUAL PERSON WHO ABSUSED ME.. I CONFRONTED HIM I REMEMBERED NOTHING UNTIL AGE 27 I have PHYSCIAL PROOF And verbal. IS this suspiicous? was my therapist planting shit?was I led? Did I imagine my uncle confirming what he did? and asking for forgivenss? Did I imagine being hung and the twisted neck I have come from somewhere else? Are my torn insides my imagination or did I find out why when I confronted my uncle? PEOPLE WHO MISTAKE THEIR OPINION FOR FACT should be shot with a ball of shit and hung for stinking T

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 2:32:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TANTRADD PEOPLE WHO MISTAKE THEIR OPINION FOR FACT should be shot with a ball of shit and hung for stinking T Welcome to the forums. You'll be around a lot longer, be taken more seriously, and enjoy your time here a lot more, if you learn to disagree in a more courteous and civilized fashion. Be well.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 7:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 No offense intended her NihilusZero...But, it is statements like this one that bother me beyond understanding. How can You just totally discount another human being's experience? Now, i can understand saying that someone's memory can not be (by virtue of being a memory) 100% accurate, but i fail to understand how You can categorize my experience as"bunk". i'm confused, Kali I'm not N0, but my views here are similar enough to his that I will answer this myself. I can just totally discount another human being's experience because I also totally discount my own experience. Now, that doesn't mean I discount the veracity of my experience, or theirs - only the truth of it. There's a big difference between saying "wow, I understand you feel that way, what can I do to help?" and saying "yeah, I believe you, let's get 'em". People's feelings should always be honored, but people's beliefs should not. Not one of us knows what reality truly is. Not a goddamn one of us can stand up and say, "X happened!". The best we have is ideas, and consensus, and factual evidence. Of which memory is an incredibly flimsy example. So I don't believe that, just because I remember my mother sexually molesting me (and I do), that my mother actually ever did anything to me. I don't believe that she didn't, either. I simply believe that I have memories that influence my perception of my mother, and help explain my relationship with her and with women in general. But these are things inside me. These are memories, not events. And assuming that just because you have a memory, that that memory represents an event, is a very dangerous way to view the world.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 7:20:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 No offense intended her NihilusZero...But, it is statements like this one that bother me beyond understanding. How can You just totally discount another human being's experience? Now, i can understand saying that someone's memory can not be (by virtue of being a memory) 100% accurate, but i fail to understand how You can categorize my experience as"bunk". i'm confused, Kali I'm not N0, but my views here are similar enough to what I've seen of his that I will answer this myself. I can just totally discount another human being's experience because I also totally discount my own experience. Now, that doesn't mean I discount the veracity of my experience, or theirs - only the truth of it. There's a big difference between saying "wow, I understand you feel that way, what can I do to help?" and saying "yeah, I believe you, let's get 'em". People's feelings should always be honored, but people's beliefs should not. Not one of us knows what reality truly is. Not a goddamn one of us can stand up and say, "X happened!". The best we have is ideas, and consensus, and factual evidence. Of which memory is an incredibly flimsy example. So I don't believe that, just because I remember my mother sexually molesting me (and I do), that my mother actually ever did anything to me. I don't believe that she didn't, either. I simply believe that I have memories that influence my perception of my mother, and help explain my relationship with her and with women in general. But these are things inside me. These are memories, not events. And assuming that just because you have a memory, that that memory represents an event, is a very dangerous way to view the world.

NihilusZero -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 7:36:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 See, for a minute there i was actually giving You some validity in thinking You might actually know what You were speaking of..... However, it's apparent to me that this is not so much the case. Most psychiatrists today do not do therapy...In fact most patients who actually see a psychiatrist are only slotted for 5-10 minute time slots, because truly the only real purpose of psychiatrist is to do medication management. Now, had you said psychologist or psychiatric social workers or even clinical social workers, You might have gotten some buy in from me. Considering the coupling that RMT often has with sedative-oriented drugs, I'm not sure what your point is here. Unless you were waiting for a semantic mini-fissure upon which to heap a non sequitur dismissal of all the points (mine and others') that preceded it. quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 For the record, thinking that i had been sexually abused by my father was the very last thing on earth that i thought i would have or even could have repressed..... In no way, shape, or form was i just siting idly by waiting for some scandalous therapist to 'plant' these memories in me. Not to mention the fact that i'm a pretty freaking strong willed and strong minded individual who does not just buy into namby pamby bullshit. Okay. Done with the loaded comments based off of anecdotal evidence? quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 For the record, as i've previously stated here, if it weren't for the work i did in therap [ And yes, i have no problem saying the work i did, because my therapist never suggested anything to me in regard to the past.{..The only thing she did was act as a good sounding board for me}] i would be one sick ass, hostage taking, drunk ass bitch... Again, this is just my experience combined with my education about this particular topic. Kali Ahhh! The argument from adverse consequences! You feel better as a result, therefore it must be correct. It's entirely possible that what you recount actually happened. However, if your father has continually proclaimed innocence about the actions you've accused him of and the only substantial evidence you obtained about it was in a therapy session...then your placebo has come at the gravest of costs.

NihilusZero -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 7:40:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TANTRADD I have PHYSCIAL PROOF And verbal. Good. That's all you ever needed. Because no logical or sensibly clinical assessment would honor RMT as sufficient evidence on its own. Please return to my lottery ticket analogy.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Repressed Memory (6/13/2009 7:45:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Ahhh! The argument from adverse consequences! You feel better as a result, therefore it must be correct. It's entirely possible that what you recount actually happened. However, if your father has continually proclaimed innocence about the actions you've accused him of and the only substantial evidence you obtained about it was in a therapy session...then your placebo has come at the gravest of costs. Umm... please be careful, here. You're talking with someone who, for whatever reason, has assigned in their head the idea that someone very emotionally close to them betrayed them. These assignments do not come lightly. It's entirely possible that her memories do correlate to actual events. It's entirely possible they correlate to other, equally traumatic events, and that the memories are a further "cover". It's possible that none of this happened, but another profound set of experiences or emotions has conflated to produce the memories. Either way, imagine the sheer amount of intensity that Kalista07 feels, here. If you don't work within that framework, you're going to create a level of emotional dissonance and turmoil that leaves Kalista07 no choice but to react hostilely to you. Yes, false memory syndrome is dangerous, and yes, people can cause a massive amount of damage with it. But that doesn't mean they're bad people, any more than them remembering something horrible happening means the people in those memories are bad people. We have to approach both sides with every ounce of compassion we can muster.

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