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RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/16/2009 4:55:11 PM

sweetgirlserves

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A submissive does what she's told until she doesn't want to anymore.... and that is okay.

A slave does what she's told. If she doesn't want to anymore.... it's not okay.

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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/16/2009 6:38:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

A submissive does what she's told until she doesn't want to anymore.... and that is okay.

A slave does what she's told. If she doesn't want to anymore.... it's not okay.

Might be your definition, but it sure isn't universal. Around here, if I don't want to do what I'm told it means there's a problem he isn't aware of and needs to be. And in such situations I'm supposed to not obey rather than make a bad situation worse.

But of course he doesn't believe himself to have divine powers of omniscience, so he wants me to use my intelligence to help prevent major fuck ups. You may prefer the fuckups.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/16/2009 7:26:10 PM

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nothing more fun than jumping right into a sticky situation

A sub is a person who calls themselves a sub and acts in a manner that reflects what they believe a sub is

A slave is a person who calls themselves a slave and acts in a manner that reflects what they believe a slave is

Now, obviously I have my own opinions on what constitutes each, but remember that they are only my opinions
to me a slave is a person that has a long-time commitment to having their lives completely run by another person

a submissive may also make that long term commitment, however while they have aspects of their lives taken over, it isnt all of it

Again, my opinion

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RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/16/2009 10:25:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

A submissive does what she's told until she doesn't want to anymore.... and that is okay.

A slave does what she's told. If she doesn't want to anymore.... it's not okay.

It's not quite that simple. i call myself a submissive, but it's still not "okay" if i don't do what i'm told. If i have a problem with it, i get to discuss it with Him, that's just how W/we do it, but it's not automatically okay if i don't do what i'm told. In real life, and this is real life, both submissives and slaves can choose to leave their relationships if they really disagree with what's going on and it can't be worked out. It's called consensual power exchange. Bottom line? In my opinion, for what it's worth, you are whatever you call yourself. Also in my opinion, slave is just more extreme than submissive, giving up control in more areas or to a greater degree....too extreme for me.

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Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 7:21:38 AM

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And this is the problem with defining Submissive as a Noun, there isn't a definition that everyone can agree on.

There is a definition of Slave and yet what it is that we do offered a different reality that does not match the definition.

Your INDIVIDUAL understanding of the words are all that matter because no one can agree on what they mean.

If you define slave as someone who takes it in the Ass even though they really don't want to, and a sub as one who says it is a hard limit then that is a definition that works for YOU, however many people will disagree.

I find the most adamant definitions of sub and slave come from those who put personal emotion into the words. The People who say I am a "sub" not a "slave" and if you do not know the difference then you have no business being a "Dominant". what I think is funny is that I know the difference to me but maybe not to them. If My definition does not match theirs then magically I am wiped of any right to claim I am a Dominant because I don't agree with their definition.

What is sad is the amount of effort we put into defining what is and what isn't rather than defining what COULD BE!

What a happy place this would could be if we focused on how to incorporate rather than how to segregate.

Steel

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(in reply to sweetsub1957)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 7:37:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

And this is the problem with defining Submissive as a Noun, there isn't a definition that everyone can agree on.

There is a definition of Slave and yet what it is that we do offered a different reality that does not match the definition.

Your INDIVIDUAL understanding of the words are all that matter because no one can agree on what they mean.

If you define slave as someone who takes it in the Ass even though they really don't want to, and a sub as one who says it is a hard limit then that is a definition that works for YOU, however many people will disagree.

I find the most adamant definitions of sub and slave come from those who put personal emotion into the words. The People who say I am a "sub" not a "slave" and if you do not know the difference then you have no business being a "Dominant". what I think is funny is that I know the difference to me but maybe not to them. If My definition does not match theirs then magically I am wiped of any right to claim I am a Dominant because I don't agree with their definition.

What is sad is the amount of effort we put into defining what is and what isn't rather than defining what COULD BE!

What a happy place this would could be if we focused on how to incorporate rather than how to segregate.

Steel

Perfectly said.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 9:00:23 AM

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quote:

Des said:
...But of course he doesn't believe himself to have divine powers of omniscience, so he wants me to use my intelligence to help prevent major fuck ups. You may prefer the fuckups.

Wait! Your dominant doesn't Des? Sheez. I of course DO have divine powers of omniscience. Sadly though, they're temporarily on the fritz so I'm asking Carol to help me out till the repair guy comes.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 10:14:01 AM

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I will have to agree this topic has been done so many times go back in some of the archives here u will get more then enough information on the difference between a sub and slave, study ur craft research before opening mouth and insert foot

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Master of Sweet House of Pleasure & Pain

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RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 10:29:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
A slave does what she's told. If she doesn't want to anymore.... it's not okay.

Really? Out of curiosity, and then what happens? Maybe I'm missing something here, but when things are "not okay" in a relationship, isn't there a problem that needs to be worked out? Well, either that or aren't you on the fast slide to separation/decollaring/divorce/whatever? In my reality, things are quite a bit more complex than this even though yes, I do expect pretty much total obedience**

________________
** Some exceptions apply. Not valid for stupid commands. Not valid in all 50 states. Anything which would reasonably appear in the movie Saw XIV is excluded. Do not melt with acid and inhale fumes. Do not insert in lawnmower.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 1:31:45 PM

sweetgirlserves

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Joined: 4/14/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
A slave does what she's told. If she doesn't want to anymore.... it's not okay.

Really? Out of curiosity, and then what happens? Maybe I'm missing something here, but when things are "not okay" in a relationship, isn't there a problem that needs to be worked out? Well, either that or aren't you on the fast slide to separation/decollaring/divorce/whatever? In my reality, things are quite a bit more complex than this even though yes, I do expect pretty much total obedience**

________________
** Some exceptions apply. Not valid for stupid commands. Not valid in all 50 states. Anything which would reasonably appear in the movie Saw XIV is excluded. Do not melt with acid and inhale fumes. Do not insert in lawnmower.

I purposely made the definition simple because then people can apply it to themselves as appropriate. Being a slave, to me, does imply absolute obedience. Being a sub, does not. That does not mean that a slave will necessarily absolutely obey... and when she doesn't... then the Master needs to address it how he sees fit. He may discuss it with her and realize that it is not a good idea for her... maybe she has a physical limitation that he was unaware of, or maybe she is having trouble dealing with something emotionally, and he decides to take a step back and 'work through it' with her in whatever fashion he determines to. He may also decide that she is just being disobedient, without good reason, and choose to punish her and then make her do it anyway.

Whereas for a sub, she is not assumed to be absolutely obedient, and her 'no' may just end with that. She says no, he says... ok... end of story. Or not. It is up to the couple involved.

~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 2:14:13 PM

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For me I identify as "submissive/bottom" but i have felt "slave-like" many times over the years and it is a mighty fine, all encompassing feeling....but for me it is only a temporary state of mind...but i think the definition is different for everyone..I read the following definition somewhere and saved it. It makes as much sense as anything else I have read:

"A submissive renews the choice to submit every time a demand is levied upon her. A slave makes a one-time choice to submit, up front, and thereafter it is incumbent upon her to obey."

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(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 2:27:44 PM

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

Whereas for a sub, she is not assumed to be absolutely obedient, and her 'no' may just end with that. She says no, he says... ok... end of story. Or not. It is up to the couple involved.

~sgs

Not here it doesn't. And a slave with a physical limitation who doesn't remind him of it ahead of time is going to regret it when he's in jail and she's in the ER.

Your absolutely definitions are - absolutely wrong.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 3:30:57 PM

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Sweetgirlserves:

Fair enough. I flagged that only because, especially for newer people, the "always obey" thing tends to get horribly abused. It becomes license for the doms to be assholes and the subs/slaves to shut off their brains. Your more elaborate explanation adds in the counterbalancing force that makes "always obey" make sense.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 5:35:10 PM

sweetgirlserves

Posts: 373
Joined: 4/14/2009
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DesFIP,
Seems from what you've posted in this thread and another one recently, you are always on the look out, concerned that your 'dom' might be 'fucking up'. If this is the case, then certainly, my definition would not apply. I am glad that you are intelligent enough to help the poor male you have submitted to from constantly making mistakes. He must be so very grateful to you.

~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 5:48:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

DesFIP,
Seems from what you've posted in this thread and another one recently, you are always on the look out, concerned that your 'dom' might be 'fucking up'. If this is the case, then certainly, my definition would not apply. I am glad that you are intelligent enough to help the poor male you have submitted to from constantly making mistakes. He must be so very grateful to you.

~sgs

i could be wrong, and i am sure i will find out if i am, but....

i went back to reread her posts, and i got a different vibe from them than you seem to have. i read he realizes he is not in her head and requires her to make him aware of anything in her that might interfere with her ability to do something he asks of her.

lots of hers in that sentence, but i can not think of a better way to word it.

because he does not "master" in a way that you would "require" your "master" to, in order for you to submit to him, does not make your way right and their way wrong, just different.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 6:13:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
Seems from what you've posted in this thread and another one recently, you are always on the look out, concerned that your 'dom' might be 'fucking up'.

*blinks* Uh... huh? Where did this come from? Here, let's not talk about Des's dom since that's third party heresay. Let's talk about me.

Damn straight I am worried that I am going to "fuck up" as you put it. And with good reason too... I just did recently and it was a doozie. Actually, now that I think of it, I just did TWICE and they were both whoppers. And let's not discuss the myriad of smaller mistakes I make on a daily basis.

For me, at least, the goal in this relationship type is not to prop up my weak ego with artificial accolades. I lost any illusions that I was perfect some time ago. Nor is it to be all super-domly since I barely even identify with BDSM or "the lifestyle". Plain and simple I'm trying to make the best marriage that I can for my wife and I. And I personally do not find that an easy task. Without going into detail, let's just say that I passed the mensa test easily. And even so, I'm more than happy to have another hundred plus IQ points helping me out from Carol's court. And then there's the various bits and pieces of help I get from places like this.

Now, getting beyond the basics of just plain managing a marriage comes the intimate level of control I exert over Carol. Maybe other dominants find this easy, but when you start messing with someone's artistic endeavors, their social circles, their living conditions, you name it, I find it WAY easy to make errors. When I sent in my application form for my MasterCard, they didn't send me the ESP pills so I'm perennially working with insufficient information in highly complex situations. And since I couldn't give a rats ass about whether I was right or not, only whether what we ended up doing is the best thing, I'm more than happy to have any input, guidance, or smacking upside the head that Carol might provide me. Amazingly, I manage to suffer all these slights to my domly dignity with my ego intact.

Carol does, in fact, keep me from "fucking up" ALL the time. Yes, I am very very grateful for that. Maybe that really eats into my dom street cred. I might just've lost 100 board warrior points here. But you know, as a consolation prize, I have a 15 year long relationship and while you can label it however you want, it's making Carol & I very very happy.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 6:25:13 PM

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From: The Desert
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quote:

When I sent in my application form for my MasterCard, they didn't send me the ESP pills

Me either!
We both have to stop giving Level money

sgs, you seem to be working from a point of view that Doms are perfect, and while I do appreciate the implied compliment (HUGE ego) I must, however hesitantly inform you that this is not so (Therefore it cannot possibly be so since if I am perfect than I am always right and if I am not perfect than I am still right) Doms are people, people fuck up ALL THE TIME
It is just a lot more obvious when a Dom fucks up, because he is fucking up for two

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Pirate King,

The nicest man you'll ever bleed for

Posting Help

Vitam Piratae Eligo

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(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 6:27:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

DesFIP,
Seems from what you've posted in this thread and another one recently, you are always on the look out, concerned that your 'dom' might be 'fucking up'. If this is the case, then certainly, my definition would not apply. I am glad that you are intelligent enough to help the poor male you have submitted to from constantly making mistakes. He must be so very grateful to you.

~sgs

Are you owned? If so, please tell your owner that I think you are disrespecting him. He is welcome to take it up with me if he has a problem with that. However, my guess is that he will be grateful to me, and have a problem with you. This post was an uncalled for attack, and puts you and anyone responsible for you in a negative light.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 6:42:55 PM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

quote:

When I sent in my application form for my MasterCard, they didn't send me the ESP pills

Me either!
We both have to stop giving Level money

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)

RE: Sub vs. Slave - 6/17/2009 6:48:57 PM

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Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

quote:

When I sent in my application form for my MasterCard, they didn't send me the ESP pills

Me either!
We both have to stop giving Level money

You know its true
I still want my box-tops back, all my cereal is topless (One of the few things I do not enjoy more topless)

_____________________________

Pirate King,

The nicest man you'll ever bleed for

Posting Help

Vitam Piratae Eligo

The Rainmaker

(in reply to Level)

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