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RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/21/2009 3:25:27 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Gov4tTB7M&feature=related    For all of the sceptics ... a very piognant tune

Pirate

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/22/2009 5:11:34 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		OK, lets make this more interesting. Having travelled fairly extensively in central/eastern Europe, there are two things that everyone I've ever met agrees with - that it would be a disaster for the western part of Europe if the Gypsies took their newly acquired right to free movement under the EU and went west to settle in our countries, especially the UK which they see as a soft touch in these regards. Its important to add at this point that my correspondents are not neo-nazi thugs but ordinary working class/lower middle class people such as one might find in any workplace here, except absent the rampant xenophobia one might find here.

They make this point for one simple reason - the Gypsies they say are criminals; not organised criminals as we have in the west (but with some notable exceptions) but petty criminals, deriving their income from theft and burglary, with robbery being about the most developed form. And they make the point that being outsiders, the Gypsies conduct this way of life because they have no interest in conforming to or obeying what we feel are intrinsic morality and laws. Some will comment further that this outsider status and disinterest in our social norms also leads Gypsy populations to what we would call uncivilised behaviour even amongst themselves. TOS limit further commentary here.

Now there is no doubt whatever that some of this is true, just as it would be true for some amongst the settled populations (albeit Gypsies have been settled since the Stalinist era post war). There is equally no doubt that a "them and us" mentality is at work whereby all social ills may be conveniently blamed on the outsiders, whose poor reputation grows accordingly with each actual proven instance of their complicity in this or that. There is also no doubt that a combination of their outsider status and this reputation condemns Gypsies to a life of poverty in unemployment that will necessarily lead to involvement in petty crime, low educational achievement, substance abuse and the sort of social problems that so easily grow in such fertile soil. The problem for the Gypsies - for all of this is equally true within the host populations - is that they are easily identifiable and thus easy to label. (note, the Gypsies we have had in the UK until recently are a whole other group of people from east European Gypsies, whose darker skin tone and features mark them out). The problem following on from that is that their reputation will precede them wherever they go and they shall find antipathy at best as a result - after all, no one wants a crowd of criminal savages in their street, however accepting and tolerant they might otherwise be, regardless of the origin of that crowd and regardless of the source of its reputation.

And neither is the awareness of this reputation limited to those like me with business connections in the central and eastern parts of Europe, or those of neo-nazi ilk. Such publications as always scream and holler about immigrants made quite a big deal some time back about the accession of Romania in particular to the EU and the invasion we were about to face from swarms of Gypsies seeking a better life on UK benefits, making little effort to dissuade the reputation these invaders had at home from becoming currency here too with follow up stories of their criminal behaviours et al. I simply do not accept the alleged horror such publications now pronounce over what has happened in Belfast - I simply do not believe they are so stupid as to believe their works had no part in generating it.

The question for the UK is whether it is prepared to accept these people - along with all the baggage of suspicion that attaches to them like no other immigrant population; whether it is prepared to take a chance as it were on them, having faith in its values or whether it will prefer forewarned to be forearmed? In more basic terms, each of us has to answer a very selfish question as to whether we would like a family with such a reputation living next door to us, and whether we would be prepared to give them a fair go when all the world is telling us theyre a bad lot?

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to JonnieBoy)
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RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/22/2009 7:38:10 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Lady E,

I admire how eloquent you post.   Any place one live there is SOME type of under current.  A lesser group of people.  It could range from friendly rivalry up to the extreme- grave- ....unspeakable.   But every town- city- suburb....

Here is this valley we politely term "influx"   -  ...there are also drifters that scam then when caught move on to the next region. Surprisingly it isn't as prevalent as it could be.  

Then one could consider who gets looked at more closely in a town.   At 45- with graying hair- I don't get the being watched- that I did when I was 20.    Why?   Because now I in part own the town...where as as a youth I had no ownership established.  (combined with testosterone and immaturity)

In the above- thread- it smacked of media controlled zombie- until a few of us called people on it.   

For where we are going- divide and conquer.   and distraction.   

Now more then ever one has to cut thru the BS- and timewaster "issues", get to the meat of the matter- and avoid the pit of distraction.

That is where things are going.    

Such mode is everywhere- people- are - under the drip of the neon sound booms.... and to include my town- the road ahead will be zig zag.

...reminds me of a pick pocket- one bumps into the target- (to distract) , a partner- picks your partner.   So- the grid will be quick to play on fear - as the media is owned by the worlds most potent pick pocketers....

...said peter piper...   lol..yikes.    ducks. 

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/22/2009 8:38:16 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		And whilst there is a scapegoat to condemn as the bringer of all evils people quietly forget the problems that existed before, much to the politicians relief.

No doubt, if  'everything ' was right in the UK, I can't see people rising up in arms to keep this new invader out, but whilst there are things wrong that affect the common man, he is more likely to be roused against  this new invasion.

Things that might be wrong, include a shortfall of housing and what there is, is out of the reach of the younger, rising unemployment, healthcare that was not as good as it was,( still waiting for a NHS dentist, applied for eight months ago and reapplied two months ago in case they lost my original application) and general other costs on the rise, gas, water, electric, communications, fuel , beer and food.

Has everyone forget, we already have criminals, those who commit robbery and fraud as a means of living, if the new invaders  are as bad as people make out, hey, look on the bright side, the cops might actually improve their crimes solved score, purely by virtue of there being more criminals on the ground to catch.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/22/2009 10:03:46 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		This is simple, if people wish to come here to escape persecution, they should be allowed to. If they intend to live off of the procedes of crime, they should be sent back. Maybe more should be done to explain the streets of the UK are not paved with gold. The government should ensure we only have an immigrant population arriving, that we can actually support. Since the Roma have been allowed into the UK in large numbers, pickpocketing ect has risen 800%. That may not all be down to them, but it is a big coincidence. I can say for sure that the majority of purse snatching ect in my town is carried out by Eastern Europeans. All those that were in favour of an open door policy, and slammed the tabloids for warning of potential problems, are now seeing the chickens come home to roost.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/22/2009 10:48:25 AM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Gypsies or not, they should still get the full protection of the law, which doesnt seem to have happened. I would have thought after all the sectarianism in Belfast that people would be more tolerant.


I've found that it takes a lot to get the police off their asses here.

About 3 years ago I was chatting with a friend in a car at night.  A guy cycled up and tried to force the door open and called my friend a whore and made threats against myself.  He cycled off threatening to come back, we called the cops, and the operator flat out said they wouldn't come out to where we were for a statement.  I gave a full description of the guy but never heard anything else about it.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/22/2009 10:52:13 AM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The mostly likely reason for these attacks is the BNP influence among some loyalist youths.


It's not just that.  I'd say that's the least of it.  Loyalist groups like the UVF are still active and they're known to have links to Combat 18 (an armed racist group in England).  Loyalist areas in this country have the most poverty and this is where most racist attacks take place.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/23/2009 1:58:59 AM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8114234.stm

A Belfast church which provided shelter for about 20 Romanian families who fled their homes after a spate of racist attacks has had its windows broken.
 
Where the hell are the police?

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/23/2009 2:17:44 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Just been on BBC News that theyre leaving Northern Ireland today (the Roma that is, not the police)

As for the police performance, I dont see this particular example as being anything other than in line with the norm for here in comparatively peaceful Worcestershire. The only time you see a cop is on the ring road in a car, or even rarer occasions when you pass the swarms of motorcycle police that are running traffic checks. Unless you call 999 you'll be lucky to have one come out to deal with anything here. And if you call 999 because you or your property are under threat, you'd best not let on you called them either, because the fact the police are nowhere to be seen otherwise means you'll get it twice as bad once theyre gone.

Mind you if I were a cop I might not be quite so keen on policing anyway; whats the point in doing your job 100% when the rest of the justice system lets you down over and over again and yet you get the blame for it all.

And before the usual suspects chime in with falling crime statistics, they need to bear in mind that all this means that most crime never gets reported - not worth the extra bother entailed when nothing will be done about it anyway.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: a new form of terrorism for N Ireland - 6/23/2009 5:07:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		...the the locals need to form a crime watch and make it work.  So far so good in my town. I am on it- active.   What works tho in this town- wont work in a larger city.

Chicago is that way.  One doesnt bother to report the crime...as the cops dont want to do the paper work.  You can listen to police scanner online.  I best now take a listen to that- because on fri-sat it never shuts up.

Breaking widows is more of a vandalism-  gosh- some group throw a rival locked then party goers in the revival....and torch the place..   27 died.    a glorious day- the nut wanted them all to ....be with the lord.

Gays and mormans fights in CA- and UT.     It is quite a scene.  The "fa^^ots"  wreck the argument- they tactics have become too pushy.  I was for the gay of which I am up to this point.  But when the line was crossed- I am totally disscuted that this is going on.   Soem gay guys harrassed a feeble old lady... and ...some other stunts- this was not theator protest- making a statement- nor was it so big a a fight that all hands need to be on deck.

-- people all worried over who is sucking whos dick...while the Bulshivick revolation is on the doorstep of America.      4 largest farms in midwest- the crops did not go in!!!!       We barely go them in -per PA.  feed is up in price- cow herd is now 11% being slatughered.   Higher milk prices coming.    So gays HARRASSING mormans-, the same folks who stock up a years supply of food- ....there is no end to the folly in this sorry azz pathetic country!

Harrass someone you may one day be required to beg for food.    \

Brillient!  <-(BIG sarcasm)

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 50
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