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RE: "Serving" - 6/19/2009 8:01:22 PM

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Here then firebird.. this'll make your head hurt.

I don't nor am I every likely to want Carol to serve another sexually. It doesn't compute for me either. But what I do want is for her to obey me for any command which is not clear and immediate harm to her. As we sit today at the 1.5 year mark, I do not think Carol would obey such a command and yes, that eats into my sense of "mine".

There -- even worse than wanting her to serve sexually... Not wanting her to but caring that she won't. *laughs*

In case anyone thought I was actually level-headed and sane, that should've put that ugly rumor to rest.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/19/2009 8:22:18 PM

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Joined: 4/14/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

You put the Dominant's needs before your own and place all of your focus into interpreting what they need next.

I am glad to hear that pyro.....

and this is why communication is so important..
A DOMMES style and a sub desires or drive in the submission need to match

*Some subs charge is from the pleasure that comes from being noticed..appreciate...cherished

*For some it is the opposite..to be faceless and an object for the Dommes use..an instrument of the DOMMES will...drives their submission

Some D's wish to micro- manage their subs behaviours closely...giving details and instruction to the minutae of what they want..
THEY may do best with subs who prefer to be pliable and "willess"( turning the brain off) while serving.

Others want a submissive who can ANTICIPATE their needs and may do best with those whose charge comes from caretaking and appreciation.

Serving to me is when my boy enhances my life...makes my life easier through his actions..his skill sets and attends to my whims and needs..adds to my life.......as I HAVE MOULED him TO
and for me...the( aticipatory) service I love must GROW from the heart and adoration....not from fear..

GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 6/19/2009 8:25:34 PM >

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

RE: "Serving" - 6/19/2009 8:42:17 PM

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

Gypsy. The distance just broke my heart.

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)

RE: "Serving" - 6/20/2009 4:40:18 AM

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

What does "serving" mean to you? my dominant and I were discussing the use and meaning of this term....

we both serve our relationship...in opposite, yet complimentary ways.
e.g. this slave is the masochist, He is the sadist.

whatever we do, in service to that relationship, affects us both...for good or for bad.
we therefore strive to be good to each other, as well as good to our selves.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/20/2009 5:03:34 AM

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

What does "serving" mean to you?

The big picture is providing that which I value which I suppose is returned in kind. To all intents and purpose I too provide a service.

In terms of details: good food and conversation immediately come to mind.

The distinction between 'proactive' and being told what to do isn't important to me. I'm not a creature of habit and what I need on a particular day will depend on my mood when I wake up in the morning so I don't place a great deal of store in someone reading my mind - it's not the easiest to read because I like to keep things open ended rather than control life. I'm quite happy to call and say: "I'd like this that and the other - do see to it" and I'm quite happy to take a spontaneous gesture. I suppose it's a case of horses for courses - my mood and the practicalities will dictate what I expect on a given day - sometimes I'll need to expend the energy to make it clear and at other times I'll expect my woman to use her brain.

No we're not mind readers but we are social animals with the ability to emphasise and second guess.

Balance is important to me: she better have some imagination in service but it's my duty to be fair in my expectations.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/20/2009 5:30:10 AM

Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Here then firebird.. this'll make your head hurt.

I don't nor am I every likely to want Carol to serve another sexually. It doesn't compute for me either. But what I do want is for her to obey me for any command which is not clear and immediate harm to her. As we sit today at the 1.5 year mark, I do not think Carol would obey such a command and yes, that eats into my sense of "mine".

There -- even worse than wanting her to serve sexually... Not wanting her to but caring that she won't. *laughs*

In case anyone thought I was actually level-headed and sane, that should've put that ugly rumor to rest.

This doesn't make my head hurt because I just ran into the phenomenon myself.

I have an online sub who is (legal! but) quite a bit younger than I am. I had asked her for a photo, then clarified that while I expect something attractive or sexy or even downright salacious, I am not interested in nude photos and tend to consider them crude as well as ill-advised.

She thanked me, and said had I asked her, she'd have refused because it was a hard limit.

Of course, then I got pissed off ... "What do you mean, you wouldn't?" I spent the next couple minutes simultaneously bitching at her for not doing what she told and congratulating her for being so commonsensical.

Finally, I just gave her a direct command: "Change the subject so we can end this incredibly stupid conversation and talk about something else!"

_____________________________

_______________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor"
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
_______________________________________________

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: "Serving" - 6/20/2009 5:50:47 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Service is to serve. That means that both dominants and s-types provide service to themselves and their respective partners as well as others outside the relationship. Service directly involves and affects those within the relationship.
Service does not equal submission.
Everybody serves.

I serve Master. Master serves his girl. He would not settle for less.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/20/2009 12:04:31 PM

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Here then firebird.. this'll make your head hurt.

I don't nor am I every likely to want Carol to serve another sexually. It doesn't compute for me either. But what I do want is for her to obey me for any command which is not clear and immediate harm to her. As we sit today at the 1.5 year mark, I do not think Carol would obey such a command and yes, that eats into my sense of "mine".

There -- even worse than wanting her to serve sexually... Not wanting her to but caring that she won't. *laughs*

In case anyone thought I was actually level-headed and sane, that should've put that ugly rumor to rest.

Most of us can accept the realities of physical limitations. I believe it is safe to say that the majority of dominants would not command their submissive to jump from an airplane without a parachute. If they did make that command, they would need to expect one of two consequences; the submissive would say ‘no’ or if he/she obeyed they would be dead. Or, let’s look at a 3rd option: the submissive starts to obey but the dominant rescinds the order at the last minute.
Do any of these options avoid damage of any kind to the submissive partner? To the relationship? Is it worth the risk?
Do you question your ownership, your dominance, because you know they would most likely disobey you in that instance?

I think it is just as important to accept the realities of emotional limitations. If, as the dominant partner, you know that a certain command would push your partner to say ‘no’ out of a sense of self preservation, isn’t that ‘no’ serving as well as preserving the relationship? If your command would negatively affect the partner’s self esteem, affect how he/she views you as well as the dynamic, is that worth the risk?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: "Serving" - 6/20/2009 12:46:05 PM

sweetgirlserves

Posts: 373
Joined: 4/14/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I get what I need because I understand that if I command her, she will obey -- large or small, easy or hard. I actually enjoy the fact that she "takes my lead and runs with it". I'm guessing this attitude comes from years of managing high-end professionals where my expectation was I could give high level direction then miracles would occur :)

Thanks for the instant 'flashback' to my career in the computer software industry! Totally related to that comment regarding miracles occurring!

Here again, it probably depends on the girl and what you want from her and what you are trying to get out of her. I am one of those people who will often go 'way overboard' if given too much lead. And that might be exactly what you want. Or, it might be something you might want to tame down... depends on the Master and his desire. If you say, plant a garden, and you come home and your backyard suddenly looks like Monet's gardens at Giverny, you might want to retract a little lead on the leash. (did i mention i love gardening?

)

~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: "Serving" - 6/23/2009 8:48:15 AM

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Joined: 6/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

What does "serving" mean to you? my dominant and I were discussing the use and meaning of this term....

It means knowing Him, being attentive to His needs and desires and fulfilling them as much as possible - sometimes it means being content when He wants solitude.

_____________________________

She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.

"I will always be the virgin-prositute, the perverse angel, the two-faced sinister and saintly woman." - Anais Nin

Owned by Chairman

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/23/2009 9:49:09 AM

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
I think it is just as important to accept the realities of emotional limitations. If, as the dominant partner, you know that a certain command would push your partner to say ‘no’ out of a sense of self preservation, isn’t that ‘no’ serving as well as preserving the relationship? If your command would negatively affect the partner’s self esteem, affect how he/she views you as well as the dynamic, is that worth the risk?

TO ME, it is not worth the risk. I've made it quite plain that I would not sacrifice my marriage let alone my wife herself on the alter of some BDSM terminology. But there are more answers here than simply in or out of scope. What I am actually doing is rewiring her value system so that such commands would not cause the emotional harm and therefor not contain the risk. Clearly, I need to be very cautious about unintended consequences related to that effort. Just as clearly, I'm going to get a ration of shit for posting that.

So "Yes, it does eat into my sense of ownership and yes, I am fixing that in a way I hope to be healthy for all involved."

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to catize)

RE: "Serving" - 6/23/2009 3:29:18 PM

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Joined: 5/7/2009
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Serving, to me, means fully knowing Him and being able to anticipate His needs or desires at any given time. It is folowing His directions or orders without hesitation or question, trusting Him completely with everything i am.

k.

_____________________________

Proud to be owned and cherished by Master Charles (Gauge)

i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/23/2009 3:45:48 PM

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Joined: 5/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

If your command would negatively affect the partner’s self esteem, affect how he/she views you as well as the dynamic, is that worth the risk?

i would have to say absolutely not worth the risk. In a D/s relationship, the submissive or slave serves the Dominant/Master's every need or desire; however, wouldn't the Dominant have a duty of care, to some extent, to ensure the sub's physical, emotional and/or psychological wellbeing isn't compromised or destroyed, and that the level of trust isn't decimated?

i hope this doesn't sound too confrontational :)

k.

< Message edited by KateyCaine -- 6/23/2009 3:47:29 PM >

_____________________________

Proud to be owned and cherished by Master Charles (Gauge)

i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

(in reply to catize)

RE: "Serving" - 6/23/2009 4:01:39 PM

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Joined: 4/28/2009
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To me, serving means obeying His orders and requests and anticipating His wants, needs, and desires and fulfilling them to the best of my abilities. He is the light of my life and I can't imagine being any other way.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/23/2009 7:54:59 PM

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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If I understand you correctly, you desire service in the form of obedience that surpasses your own wishes.
You have no need for X and no intention to command it. My rhetorical question is: how does one prove they would be willing to do that which will never be required?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: "Serving" - 6/23/2009 10:56:47 PM

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Joined: 6/11/2009
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Serving to me means obeying His orders to the best of my extent, within my limits, haha.

_____________________________

"If you're going through hell, keep going..." -Winston Churchill

"9 out of 10 guys like girls with big boobs; the 10th guy likes the 9 other men." --Just Shoot Me

"Baby, when it's love, if it's not rough, it isn't fun." Lady GaGa.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/24/2009 9:00:16 AM

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Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

If I understand you correctly, you desire service in the form of obedience that surpasses your own wishes.
You have no need for X and no intention to command it. My rhetorical question is: how does one prove they would be willing to do that which will never be required?

that can be done, it's all in how far the Dominant/Master wants to take it. a while back Merc and beth mentioned a sort of "test" where a slave was blindfolded at the summit of a high cliff and told to keep walking. theoretically a good slave would walk forward without hesitation, even if doing so could potentially mean falling to their death. and of course, a Master wants a slave who will obey. but, also theoretically, a good Master would never let you fall off.

my Master has done those kinds of tests with me (not nearly so dramatic as a cliff unfortunately, lol), to test my obedience and will.

(in reply to catize)

RE: "Serving" - 6/26/2009 9:09:05 AM

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i see service as a collective union of activities that both engage in for the betterment of each. i don't believe it is merely relegated to the submissive/slave. the dominants activities are services as well. to a larger end is view it a caretaking as a whole. something we'd each do when involved in a relationship. while on one side this may be manifested in a purely physical sense, i believe the mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects are often present and addressed in some capacity as well.

service relates to the intention in my mind, not the deed itself. the dominants ownership is a service provided to me. that is demonstrated through specific controls and behaviors. on the other side of the coin my desire to yield is a service given that is carried out in a similar vain albeit different behaviors. without the two present the deeds are of little consequence. for me it isn't that he owns or i yield, but what inspires the commitment behind our actions. while many factors could be identified, a desire to serve is usually present.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/27/2009 2:01:51 AM

vasha

Posts: 99
Joined: 2/20/2009
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to take care of her wants and desires before my own

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

RE: "Serving" - 6/27/2009 6:17:36 PM

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Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

What does "serving" mean to you? my dominant and I were discussing the use and meaning of this term....

Service could be several things in this house. It covers cleaning the house, doing laundry, cooking meals and 'serving' those meals to Master and any company he may have, it covers running errands for Master, making phone calls for him and setting up appointments, etc etc.

Service would cover anything that can be done to make Master's life easier.

_____________________________

Drakontos
zaphira

Live with honor; serve with grace and beauty

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)

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