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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 1:36:11 PM

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This has devolved into one of the lowest, most twisted threads I've ever read on Collarme, and believe me, that is really saying something!

Those of us who love Michael and who love his music, and believe he was, on balance (and such judgments are always "on balance") a good and loving man, and who have dared to say so amidst the hostility expressed in this thread, are not without knowledge of his faults or the accusations (I repeat--accusations) leveled against him, so as to need enlightenment from those of you who deem yourselves enlightened.

Nor are we little fawning, starstruck children who don't know the difference between a celebrity we don't know personally and our own, real friends and family, such that we need that difference pointed out to us.

I, for one, have been surprised at (which shouldn't really be possible on this site) the level of pure nastiness that has been expressed in this thread.

I understand that we all have different feelings about things.

I remember when Reagan died--the level of sadness that so many expressed, which positively bewildered me because I would have had to strain myself to think of one positive thing to say about the man. I watched in utter disbelief as throngs of people--including a few black people--shed tears and lined up to see him lie in state in Washington.

To quote one of my favorite movies, Double Indemnity: "Don't ask me why; I couldn't begin to guess."

I didn't get it. Still don't. Never will.

But as much as I positively hated that man, I could not have brought myself to stoop to say things about him that were as utterly ugly, hateful and disrepectful as some of the things that have been said about Michael Jackson on this thread.

Not that I didn't think those thoughts about Reagan, I just wouldn't have said them--particularly in the immediate aftermath of his death.

Call it civility.

And, yes, I know Reagan was President and Michael Jackson was an entertainer. Thanks for the insight.

To the black people who bother to read these threads (and I assume there are some), you really ought to speak up sometime, even when the topic of discussion isn't "safe."

You all have fun hatin'.

I--like much of the rest of the world--am going back to watching Michael's videos, and cranking up the stereo to listen to his music.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 1:53:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

To the black people who bother to read these threads (and I assume there are some), you really ought to speak up sometime, even when the topic of discussion isn't "safe."

You all have fun hatin'.

So, are you trying to suggest that the negative comments here were not because of his suspected illicit activities but because of racism?

(in reply to Blaakmaan)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 1:55:48 PM

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i was amazed at the strong feelings this thread evoked, and i did wonder why some thought it was ok to speak of allegations as if they were fact, especially as soon after mj's death as this. i was raised to not speak ill of the dead, and that raising goes deep, but it is not the reason i dont speak against mj badly.

the reason i dont speak badly of him is because, in my gut, i feel he was a troubled soul, a genius, a kid at heart, a person who lived his entire life under a microscope, the list goes on and on. but i dont think he was a child molestor. thats my opinion, i have it, and many others that have posted to this thread have the same or different opinions about him.

i think thedark found wonderful words to express how i was feeling, much better than i ever could have done, and the response she got was amazing, bringing people closer to an understanding of both sides.

mj is a part of the fabric of my life...from when i used to cry when i heard him sing ben, to when i would get in trouble to dancing to rockin robin, to the night thriller debuted and i was tripping on acid and ran from the house to sit and stare at the stars scared to death til sunrise.

at times i found him to be a most peculiar human being, at times he seemed like a child lost and searching for his way. but he has touched the world with his life, his music, his dancing, his vulnerability.

this is a long way of saying what i set out to say, and for that i apologize. but to you blaakmaan, your attempts to make this about race makes me sicker than any of the other things that made me sick on this thread, and it is my humble opinion that it would offend mj as much as it offends me.

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(in reply to Blaakmaan)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 2:00:40 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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I would, but then again people have told me I am strange.

Adults sleep in beds with kids all the time in places where there's no room for anything but co sleeping, and if you want to co sleep with someone else who's under age and all is above board and you're not up to no good and you're not plying them with things they shouldn't have, then I see nothing wrong with innocent co sleeping, even if the co sleeper is not related. Now if it's true he was up to no good and was plying them with drinks and stuff, then I do have a problem with that and will not defend someone even if they were a celebrity for doing that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

, an adult even sleeping in the same bed with others children is at least unconscionable, and I doubt that anyone would defend him if he wasn't a celebrity.

(in reply to SlyStone)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 2:04:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I--like much of the rest of the world--am going back to watching Michael's videos, and cranking up the stereo to listen to his music.

oh get real..... much of the rest of the world??
Looking at Jackson videos??????

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 2:05:03 PM

sleazybutterfly

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Honestly, I haven't read anything in a post that had to do with color, it is possible I have overlooked it, if so I apologize. I personally could not care at all what color someone is, if they leave this earth I still find it sad. I believe we are all children of God, therefore brothers and sisters. If that isn't someone else's belief, I can't change it.

I have taken some time to read my posts and the posts of others. Of course there are still plenty that I think are out of line, as I am sure people think mine are also.

I also realize that I was a bit in shock, and probably more emotional than normal. It's not only for him, it's also for the fact that it was a reminder that death comes when it chooses and we have no control. It also makes me look back at the years and how fast they have passed, and continue to.

I suppose I consider some things sacred, or the very least in bad taste. I don't think anyone is a saint for the most part, though I still think we have good in all of us. I found out long ago putting anyone on a pedestal will only make it worse when they fall off.

We are all full of human frailty, flaws, and human nature both at it's worst and at it's best.

I just really try to think of the good that people have done and not remember the flaws as much. It's no more than I would ask of others once I am gone.

If I have in turn hurt anyone, I am sorry. It's not my intention to hate on people, or to pick on anyone. While I still stick to my opinions and thoughts on the matter, I also must learn to make sure when stating them, I don't end up looking down my nose at those they are directed to.

While I might still remember the things said, I have seen enough of the people that posted in the past to know that I actually do enjoy their "company" for what it's worth since so many don't even know me (which I hope to remedy as time goes on). I actually do believe that had some known the way it would have been taken, they might not have said what they did, or reserved it for a later time. I don't think they were out to hurt anyone intentionally. I have the same thing happen sometimes..I would never say anything to hurt anyone, but alas we have no control how someone takes what we say into their own mind.

While I will continue to share exactly what I think about things, I will question a bit before I click on the button to see how it comes across.

As for me..it's a beautiful weekend here, though too hot...and I am grateful for each day I am given. It's all much too short to hold things against anyone, I wouldn't want to take a chance on missing a wonderful moment that we might share down the road.

Blessings.

_____________________________

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Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Blaakmaan)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 2:12:01 PM

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I was watching a report on all of this and they were speaking to the editor of Ebony magazine and one of her comments brought some clarity to a few things for me. They were discussing his "moonwalk" and his fear of not doing it as well as he had hoped and that as he walked off stage there was a young child there that made some form of a positive comment to him and that was when he knew he had done well "because children always tell the truth"....what came to me was that he had been taken advantage of by the adult world and that perhaps he felt only children were trust worthy. I have no idea if he was a pedophile or not but, his trust in kids was well placed as was what I percieved as his lack of faith in adults. Just an observation....no real knowledge of the man aside from his music and that the first time I met my wife of the past 25 years was her asking me to dance to one of his songs....for that I thank him(most days)....<s>

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 3:14:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

To the black people who bother to read these threads (and I assume there are some), you really ought to speak up sometime, even when the topic of discussion isn't "safe."

You all have fun hatin'.

So, are you trying to suggest that the negative comments here were not because of his suspected illicit activities but because of racism?

LOL, I knew there had to be a time that someone made all this into a racial issue with insinuating accusations of racism. It's just ridiculously funny to me that the guy, who actually made that predictable step, so vehemently hurled bible quotes about not judging at others earlier. Hey at least I and I presume some others, got the daily dose of laughter.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:04:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

To the black people who bother to read these threads (and I assume there are some), you really ought to speak up sometime, even when the topic of discussion isn't "safe."

You all have fun hatin'.

So, are you trying to suggest that the negative comments here were not because of his suspected illicit activities but because of racism?

First, I'm not trying to suggest anything.

I am saying what I see, and what I think. I'm not suggesting.

I have observed and have stated that blacks and whites are talking about Michael Jackson very, very differently.

Lots of whites are speaking of Michael as an "accused pedophile," and the like, and commenting on his death in the most negative possible terms.

Virtually no blacks are. Quite the opposite.

That difference is certainly racial.

Whether or not it's also racist, is a different question.

But, it's certainly a question worth asking, and to me, the answer is by no means obvious.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:06:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I--like much of the rest of the world--am going back to watching Michael's videos, and cranking up the stereo to listen to his music.

oh get real..... much of the rest of the world??
Looking at Jackson videos??????

Always real, Madam.
Trust me.
Or don't.
Doesn't matter in the least.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:10:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I would, but then again people have told me I am strange.

Adults sleep in beds with kids all the time in places where there's no room for anything but co sleeping, and if you want to co sleep with someone else who's under age and all is above board and you're not up to no good and you're not plying them with things they shouldn't have, then I see nothing wrong with innocent co sleeping, even if the co sleeper is not related. Now if it's true he was up to no good and was plying them with drinks and stuff, then I do have a problem with that and will not defend someone even if they were a celebrity for doing that.

This is so very misguided. It's nothing to do with what the adult feels about co-sleeping and everything to do with what the child feels.A child, BY DEFINITION, is below the age of consent. If the child feels violated then that child is violated.
Adults who violate children rarely if ever have insight into the fact that they have.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:12:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I--like much of the rest of the world--am going back to watching Michael's videos, and cranking up the stereo to listen to his music.

oh get real..... much of the rest of the world??
Looking at Jackson videos??????

Always real, Madam.
Trust me.
Or don't.
Doesn't matter in the least.

Way too much time watching dancing vampires in my opinion

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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To my stalker:
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(in reply to Blaakmaan)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:12:40 PM

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When one can only see in black and white, I can understand your take.

I have just about every race in my family, but the only race that matter's to me is the human race. My opinions don't have color.

See it how you will, you have already decided what is what and what it all is.

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(in reply to Blaakmaan)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:20:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

To the black people who bother to read these threads (and I assume there are some), you really ought to speak up sometime, even when the topic of discussion isn't "safe."

You all have fun hatin'.

So, are you trying to suggest that the negative comments here were not because of his suspected illicit activities but because of racism?

LOL, I knew there had to be a time that someone made all this into a racial issue with insinuating accusations of racism. It's just ridiculously funny to me that the guy, who actually made that predictable step, so vehemently hurled bible quotes about not judging at others earlier. Hey at least I and I presume some others, got the daily dose of laughter.

LOL. I can't tell you how much it pleases me to have facilitated your daily laugh.

Now, I can sleep well...

I doubt that the majority of you would ever find anything racial--let alone racist--in pretty much anything that's ever been posted on these boards, unless, of course, a non-white person posted it or it was as obvious as "KKK."

It's a pity that the black people who are on this site don't bother to call the majority on the racial and racist crap that passes for discourse on these boards.

But, whatever.

As at Burger King, have it your way.

You're right, of course.

All the B.S. on here, and all the vitriol directed towards Michael Jackson in this thread, have nothing whatever to do with race.

Nothing at all.

Better now???

Good!

(in reply to Viridana)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:23:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

When one can only see in black and white, I can understand your take.

I have just about every race in my family, but the only race that matter's to me is the human race. My opinions don't have color.

See it how you will, you have already decided what is what and what it all is.

I am overwhelmed by the strength of your logic and the power of your analysis.

I humbly surrender.

Damn, I wish I had every race in my family!

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:24:59 PM

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Joined: 5/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I--like much of the rest of the world--am going back to watching Michael's videos, and cranking up the stereo to listen to his music.

oh get real..... much of the rest of the world??
Looking at Jackson videos??????

Always real, Madam.
Trust me.
Or don't.
Doesn't matter in the least.

Way too much time watching dancing vampires in my opinion

Way too much time dancing with you, in my opinion.

I'm going back to my seat!

(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:30:24 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I am not black - but I can see the significance that MJ was in the same way that I understand that Obama has significance. So I do understand the importance - if that makes any sense? Maybe I misunderstand and if I do I apologise.

the.dark.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:33:22 PM

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The astonishing irony of a discussion about black and white, so vehemently made into a argument of race, about a person that was arguably whiter in appearance, the last decade (give or take a few years or more), than most of the white people on this sight. By a person that identifies as a black man that has a strong history of his own black identity and being a victim of white people. I swear I cannot imagine a mind so convoluted.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Blaakmaan)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:38:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I doubt that the majority of you would ever find anything racial--let alone racist--in pretty much anything that's ever been posted on these boards, unless, of course, a non-white person posted it or it was as obvious as "KKK."

Let's refresh our memory a little bit in between racism allegations:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

Matthew 7:1-6 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

(in reply to Blaakmaan)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 4:39:18 PM

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I--like much of the rest of the world--am going back to watching Michael's videos, and cranking up the stereo to listen to his music.

oh get real..... much of the rest of the world??
Looking at Jackson videos??????

Always real, Madam.
Trust me.
Or don't.
Doesn't matter in the least.

Way too much time watching dancing vampires in my opinion

Way too much time dancing with you, in my opinion.

I'm going back to my seat!

You seem to have your levels of reality confused.
And ok here's a white woman's personal opinion:
Michael Jackson spent a huge amount of money (because he simply could) on eradicating, or at least attempting to eradicate all signs of Negro heritage from his face until his nose almost feel off. He solicited the help of unethical surgeons to attempt to turn the face he looked at when he looked into the mirror into the face of a white man. He chose a white woman to be the egg that enabled him to father children.
Now am I making that a racist case? Or did Michael Jackson? Michael wanted to be other than black in a world that surpassed him in being able to internalise black as beautiful.
He was in a constant state of body dysmorphia which tortured him. He was not trying to transition from man to woman he was trying to transition from black to white.
I said this was a white woman's opinion but I was just being ironic.
I am a therapist for what that is worth to you and well read in the psychology of body dysmorphia.
No: when you can respond with intelligence rather than flip remarks about dancing with me, which I can assure everyone you have not, then please do so.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 6/27/2009 4:41:40 PM >

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(in reply to Blaakmaan)

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