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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 5:44:07 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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That is of course a whole nother kettle of fish, and in my original defense of co sleeping, it goes with out saying for me that they'd have to be comfortable and not feel violated co sleeping too.That goes hand in hand with my original statement that all is a bove board, and if all is above board there's no reason to feel violated.

all though one time when we were little kids we visited my aunts house, and I didn't really know her or like her or consider her family and I had to share her bed since there was no place else to sleep and man was that uncomfortable for me. But I'd never say I felt violated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

This is so very misguided. It's nothing to do with what the adult feels about co-sleeping and everything to do with what the child feels.A child, BY DEFINITION, is below the age of consent. If the child feels violated then that child is violated.
Adults who violate children rarely if ever have insight into the fact that they have.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 7:15:28 PM

kdsub

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sorry

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/27/2009 7:16:29 PM >

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/27/2009 7:55:24 PM

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People die everyday. Yes...important...meaningful...people. AND...ordinary...down the road ..knew you since childhood people. It's part of life. I've had enough of that on TV since every news channel is all about it...wish there was a family guy marathon somewhere...orsome sort of non-death related marathon.
I know it's a loss and I feel for his family, especially his children...but honestly?? I dont care that thriller was the number one song...I really dont. I enjoy it. I dont care to battle or debate whether he touched some um's... We can all speculate and make judgments and opinons and it doesnt really matter. Actually...it wont change a friggin thing.

Perhaps the one thing that I'm trying to understand is why people make such a big deal about a famous person dying (yah...i know they are famous...yah i can believe it) as if they are much more important than someone in a deathbed...who isnt in the limelight.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 8:43:00 AM

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They don't "make" such a big deal out of it; it *is* a big deal to them.

Maybe you haven't had the experience of someone being important to you, whom you've never personally met, such that their passing makes you genuinely mourn. To be moved by a person whom you've never met, they have to come to your attention by their notoriety or celebrity. If they've gained public attention in a positive sense, there is probably something remarkable about them, in the eyes of many people.

The fact that they are in the consciousness of many people doesn't make their life or passing more important; it just makes it important to more people, because more people know and care.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 9:12:58 AM

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It looks like Michael Jackson won't be taking anymore cub scouts on intimate dinner dates to Chucky Cheese anymore.

On a serious note, when we did our 2 hour drive to the club last Saturday night, they played alot of Jackson Five on the 70's channel on satellite radio. You just have to admire the talent Micheal had at a young age.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 10:22:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I was watching a report on all of this and they were speaking to the editor of Ebony magazine and one of her comments brought some clarity to a few things for me. They were discussing his "moonwalk" and his fear of not doing it as well as he had hoped and that as he walked off stage there was a young child there that made some form of a positive comment to him and that was when he knew he had done well "because children always tell the truth"....what came to me was that he had been taken advantage of by the adult world and that perhaps he felt only children were trust worthy. I have no idea if he was a pedophile or not but, his trust in kids was well placed as was what I percieved as his lack of faith in adults. Just an observation....no real knowledge of the man aside from his music and that the first time I met my wife of the past 25 years was her asking me to dance to one of his songs....for that I thank him(most days)....<s>

and.. imagine from that perspective... how so very sad he must have been..to have "children" turn against him as well..

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 10:28:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

I--like much of the rest of the world--am going back to watching Michael's videos, and cranking up the stereo to listen to his music.

oh get real..... much of the rest of the world??
Looking at Jackson videos??????

Always real, Madam.
Trust me.
Or don't.
Doesn't matter in the least.

Way too much time watching dancing vampires in my opinion

Way too much time dancing with you, in my opinion.

I'm going back to my seat!

You seem to have your levels of reality confused.
And ok here's a white woman's personal opinion:
Michael Jackson spent a huge amount of money (because he simply could) on eradicating, or at least attempting to eradicate all signs of Negro heritage from his face until his nose almost feel off. He solicited the help of unethical surgeons to attempt to turn the face he looked at when he looked into the mirror into the face of a white man. He chose a white woman to be the egg that enabled him to father children.
Now am I making that a racist case? Or did Michael Jackson? Michael wanted to be other than black in a world that surpassed him in being able to internalise black as beautiful.
He was in a constant state of body dysmorphia which tortured him. He was not trying to transition from man to woman he was trying to transition from black to white.
I said this was a white woman's opinion but I was just being ironic.
I am a therapist for what that is worth to you and well read in the psychology of body dysmorphia.
No: when you can respond with intelligence rather than flip remarks about dancing with me, which I can assure everyone you have not, then please do so.

OMFG... am i really getting sick of people thinking the whole "getting whiter as the years went on" thing.. was because they think a black man wanted to not be black, but instead wanted to be white.

Michael had a SKIN CONDITION.. called vitiligo. It is where skin pigment dies off and this makes splotches of white skin. looks like lil islands of pure white..albino skin.

Lots of people..with vitiligo..choose to undergo skin bleaching.. to remove the normal skin pigmet color as well..and thus erasing the spots.

That is what Michael did as well.

i also am a person with vitiligo.. i am white.. but in certain PLACES.. i am whiter.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 10:41:47 AM

ModeratorEleven

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Folks, please trim your quotes.

XI

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This mod goes to eleven.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 12:22:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: suhlut

OMFG... am i really getting sick of people thinking the whole "getting whiter as the years went on" thing.. was because they think a black man wanted to not be black, but instead wanted to be white.

Michael had a SKIN CONDITION.. called vitiligo. It is where skin pigment dies off and this makes splotches of white skin. looks like lil islands of pure white..albino skin.

Lots of people..with vitiligo..choose to undergo skin bleaching.. to remove the normal skin pigmet color as well..and thus erasing the spots.

That is what Michael did as well.

i also am a person with vitiligo.. i am white.. but in certain PLACES.. i am whiter.

suhlut, Michael Jackson told the world about his skin condition early on, finally addressing the obsession regarding his changing appearance, though it really shouldn't have been anyone's business but his own.

It eludes me why people insisted he would lie about this - he didn't make it up, you know, it is a real condition, as you can unfortunately attest- and how they could be so cruel as to continue really persecuting him for it. For what? Having a skin condition that is particularly painful and difficult to cope with. Making jokes and accusing him of being ashamed of his race. It's awful.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 3:14:07 PM

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And the nose and lip alterations? What tragic medical condition caused that? Seriously.

Don't you think people could have thought "oh okay, we get it" and moved on about the skin, IF it was that alone? Unfortunately that was only one of many weirdnesses that added all up created his nickname.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 5:13:22 PM

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I'd believe it was vitilligo if just once somewhere someone had photographed him with an uneven skin tone. I will also point out that his complexion lightened over a long period of time. If he really had vitilligo and was really bleaching his skin then there would have been noticeable irregularities in his complexion.

In reshaping his face, altering his nose, chin, cheekbones and eye brows at a minimum, he consciously chose a more stereotypically "white person's" face over the one he was born with.

He obviously had identity problems and whether it was he couldn't stand resembling his father or simply hated being a black man more generically we may never know.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 7:02:09 PM

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suhlut:
For the sake of arguement, I will accept that he had vitalligo. Why bleach it ? Why not darken it. That can be done also. Why not cosmetic tatto-ery to darked, even the tone changes. I have a friend in NY who does it all the time for people suffering from vitilligo. But in the end, I don't really care which one he chose. I'm not really sure what all the fuss has been for years about which color he chose to use to live with a disfiguring disease.

But in my humble opinion, lighten it or darken it wouldn't have mattered. It wasn't the skin tone that make him look inhuman, it was the horrendous plastic surgeries he had. I have to believe that he looked in the mirror and was appalled at what he did to himself, in his private moments.

I have often thought that it would be intersting to see one of those forensic computer images of what he would have looked like if he had left himself alone. You know, like they do with children who went missing when they were 5 or six years old and now would be 25. I think he would have been quite a handsome man.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 7:21:02 PM

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I actually saw one of those computerized images a couple of years ago. According to them, he'd be not that far from his brother Jermaine. If you google, I'm sure you'll find them.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 8:05:01 PM

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Thanx !! I checked and he looks great in that image.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 8:14:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

And the nose and lip alterations? What tragic medical condition caused that? Seriously.

Don't you think people could have thought "oh okay, we get it" and moved on about the skin, IF it was that alone? Unfortunately that was only one of many weirdnesses that added all up created his nickname.

I believe its Body Dysmorphia. Leads peole to get surgery after surgery. Its a psychlogical condition, but none the less still an illness.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 9:06:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

And the nose and lip alterations? What tragic medical condition caused that? Seriously.

Don't you think people could have thought "oh okay, we get it" and moved on about the skin, IF it was that alone? Unfortunately that was only one of many weirdnesses that added all up created his nickname.

Well.. i cant explain why he ever messed with plastic surgery on nose/lips.. But, i suppose it might have been for the same type of reason any other person chooses to go see a plastic surg.

Countless people have been disfigured and maimed from having made that choice.. and yet..it is still the right for those whom can afford the operations.. to proceed with having them. i remember feeling horror and acute sympathy..over seeing the results of his choices.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 9:35:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'd believe it was vitilligo if just once somewhere someone had photographed him with an uneven skin tone. I will also point out that his complexion lightened over a long period of time. If he really had vitilligo and was really bleaching his skin then there would have been noticeable irregularities in his complexion.

In reshaping his face, altering his nose, chin, cheekbones and eye brows at a minimum, he consciously chose a more stereotypically "white person's" face over the one he was born with.

He obviously had identity problems and whether it was he couldn't stand resembling his father or simply hated being a black man more generically we may never know.

Nobody knows where on MJ's body..that vitiligo first appeared. Maybe in an area not visible in photographs?

Millions of people make silly decisions on what to do with their bodies. Men try to enlarge their penises..women try to enlarge their breasts.. and barely a blink is given over those type of decisions.
i have always thought MJ may have at one time looked into a mirror somewhere and said to himself as he pinched his nostrils.. "Boy would i look sooo much more handsome if this was just a lil thinner" Thats not so different then anyone else concidering having something changed.

And he wouldnt be the first.. and wont be the last.. that the surgery is botched and gone horribly wrong.

Regardless, with the vitiligo.. wherever it developed on him..it was his right to decide to choose skin bleaching. Lots of black sufferers of vitiligo make the same decision.

Having vitiligo myself.. i would have been remiss to not know information on each of my choices. And so, i have knowledge of the process of skin bleaching.

It isn't an instant action, but instead a long drawn out process, especially for a man as dark as Michael used to be. A prescription is given for a skin cream, that is applied and over time the skin pigment fades away. If it is applied correctly though.. the results are an even and gradual lightening. It is a big decision and people are informed that its not reversable once begun.

It isnt the right choice for me personally..at this time.

Back when i first observed the results of his change.. i remember thinking.. upon noticing that MJ seemed pleased with the changes.. that perhaps there was a disorder that made him see something nobody else was seeing. Kinda in the same vien as when a person that sufferes from anerexia..when seeing photos or their reflection in a mirror.. that they see a "fat body"..rather then seeing the truth of looking like a walking skeleton. a Body image disorder.. rather ahead thinking for a young woman that id been at the time.

But..as an adult that has developed vitiligo.. i think i can see it in a different light now.. perhaps Michael was every bit as horrified as the rest of us.. perhaps he hated how he turned out looking.. and perhaps he just had no way to express that safely.. and instead decided to plaster on a fake smile.. pretended everything is great.. and just got on with his life.

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 9:43:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

suhlut:
For the sake of arguement, I will accept that he had vitalligo. Why bleach it ? Why not darken it. That can be done also. Why not cosmetic tatto-ery to darked, even the tone changes. I have a friend in NY who does it all the time for people suffering from vitilligo. But in the end, I don't really care which one he chose. I'm not really sure what all the fuss has been for years about which color he chose to use to live with a disfiguring disease.

But in my humble opinion, lighten it or darken it wouldn't have mattered. It wasn't the skin tone that make him look inhuman, it was the horrendous plastic surgeries he had. I have to believe that he looked in the mirror and was appalled at what he did to himself, in his private moments.

I have often thought that it would be intersting to see one of those forensic computer images of what he would have looked like if he had left himself alone. You know, like they do with children who went missing when they were 5 or six years old and now would be 25. I think he would have been quite a handsome man.

Why bleach, rather then color in..with tattoo? Why does anyone make their own choices?
Like i said before.. bleaching is not my personal choice as of yet, but that is because i don't wish to look like a walking dead body. I look at my spots.. and try imagining the rest of my skin that color.. and then i look at my eyes and see how dark brown they are, and i just know they would look stark and awful next to pure white skin. And that it would make me look like a zombie..

And as much as i have in common with Michael Jackson..with having the same skin condition.. i just don't wanna be another "Thriller zombie"..lol

But.. perhaps Michael Jacksons vitiligo sprang from a skin injury... and maybe he also weighed over each choice.. but learned, as i have, that often further skin injury (such as is caused by tattooing) to be a HIGH risk of also becoming vitiligo damaged. Many people will develop vitiligo.. right after being tatoo'd and will watch as their skin color..right along with the ink itself.. simply begins to fade all away.
Filling IN areas already affected by vitiligo can be effective.. but not always.. it often reactivates vitiligo into active stage..and will cause further spreading and even the loss of the ink in the "spots".

And so, perhaps MJ's vitiligo was caused by a cut or another type of skin injury.. and he was told that tatooing to be a risky choice.. which it is.

Skin bleaching is a big step.. and people are warned that once its begun..there is no going back.. no reversal.. but still lots of black sufferers of vitiligo choose to do so.

For me, well its been inactive now..for years..and so the areas that i have it.. are the only areas that i expect it to be. If it suddenly reactivated.. and if my face becomes more involved with the white areas..thats when i might choose the choice of skin bleaching. As it is right now.. its a very tiny spot on my left side of neck...and a HUGE long stripe..down from ear to under chin.. on my right side of neck. and a tiny lil spot in the corner of my lip. Photographs don't always catch it.. depends on the season..in winter its much less visible.. any tanned skin in summer..and it makes my white spots "POP" into view.
In black toned skin the areas are VERY visible, and all year long too. i can only imagine the horror that they feel.

And.. i am rather certain that skin damage is also what caused mine to develop..but mine was caused from what i think was too much chlorine in my swimming pool. I began to itch..and turned an awful shade of red as i scratched and itched it over the next severla days..till i had to try forcing myself to ignore the sensation. When the redness faded away a few days after that.. gone was also my skin color.

i also caused, the damage to the corner of my lip.. by using a product that id read might help recolor in vitiligo...it caused a burn..and left a sore in the corner of my lip that looked much like a cold sore.. when the burn healed completely.. gone was the skin color. Luckily.. it was the tiniest of spots.. that can easily be covered with lipcolor...

Over time.. i have tried finding ways to cover my spots.. makeup.. i learned to hate the stuff. i tried stuff meant to cover scars.. and while it worked.. it was impossible..to blend in with my normal skin..and so i tried using it over my whole face. Well that made me look WAY to heavily made up.. and looked like i was wearing a mask..or holloween makeup. It also would never "stay" put.. it would melt and run off onto my clothes.. so yeah.. a real pretty put together look i had going on.

For awhile i boycotted all makeup.. and just learned to deal with not caring about it... if people stare.. and they still sometimes do.. oh well. Lately though.. i was introduced to mineral powder makeups.. and wow do i love them.. they weigh next to nothing..so i still get the sensation that i am bare and have none on.. while also getting beautiful coverage.. and unlike all other foundations.. it STICKS to..and stays put..AND COVERS.. those spots really rather well. I can still see a ghost of paler area if i look in a mirror.. but not anything as awful as it looks bare and stark white.
Someday.. i also am concidering having it tatoo'd in.. if i can find someone that can do it.. theres nobody local.

_____________________________

That girl is pretty kinky
The girl's a super freak

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 9:59:48 PM

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now billy mays..

may they all rest in peace...

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RE: Michael Jackson taken to the hospital - 6/28/2009 10:17:34 PM

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I thought Michael had broken his nose and due to his Dad making fun of his nose as he was growing up he had it fixed.
I thought Michael also had a skin disease (forgotten the name) in which his skin turned white. I know a lady that has this problem and she has also lost quite a bit of her hair. I know losing the hair is due to alopecia.

It doesn't matter what i think or what anybody thinks. WE REALLY Do Not KNOW all the FACTS. We were not there...

(in reply to Prinsexx)

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