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RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 3:47:54 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Re blacksword's point, polite sub if a rascist party got into power then they would speak for you democracy means that you accept you live with majority rule not you accept the leadership when they condone your personal beliefs only. your choice then would be either accept democracy or leave the country.

If you wish to believe that then fell free. I know what my views are .

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Post #: 61

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 3:50:38 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

We do steal from weaker nations constantly polite sub. Defending Kuwait from Iraq to safeguard oil is simply an extension of that. I'm not ''happy'' to invade anywhere certainly not Iran but if it's the difference between us controlling a global commodity/neccesity or a regime that is openly hostile then I will back us every time.

So defending a nation is the same as stealing from a nation. Interesting logic to say the least.

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Post #: 62

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 3:50:54 PM

mastrcmmdr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Just because they represent me, it doesnt mean they speak for me.

Yea they do. Maybe not you personal view. But your collective national view. When another country wants to know what your countrymen think about a particular subject the ask you representatives. They don't run around and ask people of the street. They ask your representatives because they speak for you.

If you say no they don't. Then who does speak for you and your countrymen? What person or group of people have you selected to be your voice?

Which is interesting, because the MSM loved to report on the "man in the street" attitude about the US and Bush, and not their governments' views, which were far more favorable.

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Post #: 63

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 3:53:34 PM

Starbuck09

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Defending a nation to safeguard it's mineral wealth for our own use is indeed an extension of invading a nation to exploit it's mineral wealth polite sub. Why do you think we defended Kuwait?

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Post #: 64

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 3:55:32 PM

mastrcmmdr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So then what you are saying is we have no individual voice other than our vote.

If we happen to be born in a certain country with a particular political system then our government is our voice and we need to abide by that or do something about it?

By George, he's finally got it! (With the addendum to his incomplete second thought). Which of course answers the Iran question.

< Message edited by mastrcmmdr -- 7/2/2009 3:56:02 PM >

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RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 3:57:18 PM

Starbuck09

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MastrCmmdr I don't know if it's just my computer but all your messages are just flashing up awaiting approval, is anyone else just seeing this or is there something wrong with my settings?

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Post #: 66

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 3:59:34 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Defending a nation to safeguard it's mineral wealth for our own use is indeed an extension of invading a nation to exploit it's mineral wealth polite sub. Why do you think we defended Kuwait?

What part of the word "Steal" dont you understand ? The UN sanctioned the defence of Kuwait. The fact the west buys oil from them ( Note that word buys ) doesnt make defending them illegal.

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Post #: 67

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 4:02:04 PM

Starbuck09

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I didn't say it was illegal but we thwarted one countries ambitions for power and defended our own invading Iraq is an extension of that, I didn't say they were the same politesub.

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Post #: 68

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 4:14:25 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

I didn't say it was illegal but we thwarted one countries ambitions for power and defended our own invading Iraq is an extension of that, I didn't say they were the same politesub.

"We do steal from weaker nations constantly polite sub. Defending Kuwait from Iraq to safeguard oil is simply an extension of that."

Your starting to contradict yourself. Not once have you put up a rational explanaition of why stealing from another Country is okay. Why have international laws and treaties, lets just take what we like eh.

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Post #: 69

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 4:18:49 PM

Starbuck09

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I'm not contradicting though polite sub I said invading a country to exploit its mineral wealth is an extension of defending a country from another [under no direct threat ourselves] to exploit it's mineral wealth, which in my opinion is true I never said they were the same. Also i'm not particuarly arguing it is okay what i'm arguing is that we do it and by our own failure to act and so accept it we are equally guilty/responsible as those who ordered it. It's no good to say it's wrong to steal oil but i'm going to use it anyway as I didn't vote for this war ,surely?

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Post #: 70

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 4:33:24 PM

Politesub53

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Thats assuming everyone is using Iraqi Oil. The present supply from them isnt a great deal.

I am saying its not okay to go to war for oil, trading for it is a better answer.

One thing I will give you credit for, unlike some people at least you can see the Iraqi invasion for what it was. Better we were given the truth than told bullshit about wmd`s and Al Qaeda links

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Post #: 71

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 4:50:44 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

If you say no they don't. Then who does speak for you and your countrymen? What person or group of people have you selected to be your voice?

They dont speak for me, because I didnt vote for them in either of the last two UK elections. By your logic, if a racist group got into power in the US, they would speak for you. Are you okay with that ?

Starbuck, so we can steal from weaker nations....Way to go with that bullshit.

Defending Kuwait from Iraq was one thing, going to war over Iraqi oil is quite another. Iran has more oil than Iraq, So im guessing you are happy to invade there next.

It does not matter if I would like it or not. If they represented me then they indeed would speak for me. I would then vote for somebody else in the next election. Whether you like them or not does not negate the purpose of a representative.

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Post #: 72

RE: War for Oil? - 7/2/2009 4:52:41 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Defending a nation to safeguard it's mineral wealth for our own use is indeed an extension of invading a nation to exploit it's mineral wealth polite sub. Why do you think we defended Kuwait?

War is for attack and defense. Of our land and people and our national interest.

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Post #: 73

RE: War for Oil? - 7/3/2009 10:13:25 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

War is for attack and defense. Of our land and people and our national interest.

Youre okay with ignoring international law and treaties then ? My view is if we sign them we should abide by them, I`m odd like that.

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Post #: 74

RE: War for Oil? - 7/3/2009 1:43:45 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

War is for attack and defense. Of our land and people and our national interest.

Youre okay with ignoring international law and treaties then ? My view is if we sign them we should abide by them, I`m odd like that.

I agree promises should be kept or not entered into at all. Many of these agreements need to rethought.

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Post #: 75

RE: War for Oil? - 7/3/2009 2:06:09 PM

OrionTheWolf

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This is also why I am all for pulling out of the UN, and having our treaties reviewed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

War is for attack and defense. Of our land and people and our national interest.

Youre okay with ignoring international law and treaties then ? My view is if we sign them we should abide by them, I`m odd like that.

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Post #: 76

RE: War for Oil? - 7/3/2009 3:05:20 PM

Politesub53

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And you both feel its okay for any Country to just go and take what they need, should we not be striving for something better ?

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Post #: 77

RE: War for Oil? - 7/3/2009 3:25:48 PM

chiaThePet

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Well I think it's just silly to start blazing bullets at each other over Oil of Olay.

I mean I was just at the Big Lots and the shelves were fu........excuse me......

It's about what? Ohhhhhhh.

Never mind.

chia* (the pet)

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Post #: 78

RE: War for Oil? - 7/3/2009 3:42:00 PM

Starbuck09

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What do you think a better system would be polite sub?

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Post #: 79

RE: War for Oil? - 7/3/2009 3:56:58 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

What do you think a better system would be polite sub?

Ive said it already Starbuck....Free trade. Oil for expertise ect ect could be a good start, anything is better than the huge loss of life taking place.

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Post #: 80