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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 11:54:48 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		So we have found a cure for abuse of a submissive and power?  The dominant submit to someone for a length of time.  Just how long does it take to dominate the abuse out of them?  What is done to do so?  I am very sure many, many people working in domestic abuse would be very interested in this method these wonderful, insightful, egotistical people have found to do away with a very serious ill in the world.

Damn... to think it started with a bdsm group! That ought to make headlines and clear us all with those who don't understand! 

I think the first who need to go through this specialised treatment and training are those that came up with the idea.  This is one of the craziest things I have ever heard of!  Just brillant! lol

Maybe they can work on the treatment of rape next.


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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 12:16:48 PM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline 		Hmmm...I'm new still..or newISH, so I have to say if my Dom ever told me he was once a Sub it would REALLY mess my head up and I dont know if I could take him seriously after that.  The PC part of me wants to say that's not right of me to think that way, but..I just..for lack of a better word UGH.

As odd as I am, because I DO have a rather dominant personality, I don't want to BE the Domme.  I like when I push and as another sub in another forum said, my Dom pushes back twice as hard.  I feel like if he were a sub before that just wouldn't happen.  I know subs are not weak, not by any stretch, but I'm VERY strong and I need my Dom to be stronger, I FEEL like a Dom who was a sub once might not be able to handle me, the way my present Dom does so beautifully...even when I do drive him crazy.


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Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 12:25:34 PM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

I would have to say a weakness. I could never submit to a man who I knew had willingly submitted to another just for the fun, or sexual gratification of it. Sorry, but, in my eyes, that's not much of a man.


Male children submit to their parents, to teachers and whatever else.  Do you really believe if they have submitted somewhere they are not much of a man?  So they can't be ex military, cause well they submit to higher authority, frankly I think it is a bit pathalogical if someone doesn't submit to anything, social structure, some form of morality, etc.

I can see not wanting a switch but take me, when I was new, I bottomed to someone because of social pressure more than anything else, it didn't do anything for me.  Do you really see me as "not much of a man" because of that?  Don't sugar coat your words, I am really curious about your honest opinion.

How do you feel about a dominant exposing their vulnerable sides, admitting weaknesses and the like, same view? 



I don't mind my Dom showing ME his soft side but his hard side is just as pleasing or has to be.  I don't even like it when he apologizes to me. *I* feel bad when he does.  What I think the other sub is saying and I'm saying the same, is that we'd prefer Doms who were just Doms.  Kind of like some women would prefer their men NOT be bi-sexual and like only women.  In my eyes (and this is just my own opinion) less chance of one day I as a sub get put in the position of having someone who is trying to get me to Top them.  Now this is not to say I couldn't do it. But as someone else said. I derive no pleasure from it...I find it repulsive actually. 



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Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 12:52:38 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Cool.. just Doms and not people.  Must be nice to keep one in the closet for use whenever a need must be met.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: MMagic
is that we'd prefer Doms who were just Doms. 


(in reply to MMagic)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 12:57:12 PM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

I was trying to get a more complete view of how you view things, but if you just want to be overly sensitive, be my guest.

Really? How much more of a complete view do you require.

I see any man, who would submit to a room full of strangers, simply because they said he must...as being WEAK.

Not much more there to say about it.

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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:03:50 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

I was trying to get a more complete view of how you view things, but if you just want to be overly sensitive, be my guest.

Really? How much more of a complete view do you require.

I see any man, who would submit to a room full of strangers, simply because they said he must...as being WEAK.

Not much more there to say about it.


How about someone who submitted when they were in their early 20's and a couple of years in, discovered that they loved the other side of the kneel.
And how do you feel about Doms who love sensation play on the recieving end; who are both sadists and masochists.

I am not asking this to aggravate you.
I would just like to understand.



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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:07:26 PM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

How about someone who submitted when they were in their early 20's and a couple of years in, discovered that they loved the other side of the kneel.
And how do you feel about Doms who love sensation play on the recieving end; who are both sadists and masochists.

I am not asking this to aggravate you.
I would just like to understand.

No, you are trying to get me say what you know I am going to say so that you can get on your holy-roller-higher-than-thou-horse. But that's ok, I don't mind being honest and saying exactly what is on my mind.

I find any man...yes, any man...who would submit to another for sexual gratification, fun, play...as being weak.



Thankfully, my own personal opinions do not intrude on those in relationships who disagree with this.

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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:17:59 PM   
allthatjaz


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Actually a lot of submissives do this for fun and for sexual gratification. Weekenders and occasional fantasists are not lesser beings than those that want the entire lifestyle. neither is a weakness in my opinion, just different. The great thing about this world is its 'live and let live'. We can be who ever we f-cking well want and don't have to or at least shouldn't have to fear being judged for it. I think as a matter of principle all should be inclusive and accepting. We may not like it, may not desire it in any way but theres a whole difference between not wanting to go their and making a statement demeaning someone elses choices because we happen to get turned off by it.
I remember a well known Dominant guy coming up to me in a club whilst I was in the middle of Dominating this guy and saying to me 'how does it feel to Dominate some weak little shit that likes to call himself a man'. I turned around and replied, ' I don't know darling, I have not had the opportunity to Dominate you yet'. Needless to say I lost total respect for that man from that moment on, not because of his opinion but because of he hadn't had the decency to say that to me quietly out of earshot of another that could be hurt by his words.

As far as what the op is asking I have to go along with those who are against this idea.
Why the hell would a Dominant agree to submit so that he can be part of the pecking order? why don't you just go the full hog and ask them to be all sissied up so that they know how it feels to be a woman too?!?!
Anyway who the hells making these rules?

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 7/11/2009 1:49:17 PM >

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(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:20:14 PM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

So are you saying that in your eyes, a submissive man is not much of a man?

In my eyes yes.

Such a shame that so many take a personal opinion personally. Oh well...can't expect much more than that, I guess.

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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:34:45 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

How about someone who submitted when they were in their early 20's and a couple of years in, discovered that they loved the other side of the kneel.
And how do you feel about Doms who love sensation play on the recieving end; who are both sadists and masochists.

I am not asking this to aggravate you.
I would just like to understand.

No, you are trying to get me say what you know I am going to say so that you can get on your holy-roller-higher-than-thou-horse. But that's ok, I don't mind being honest and saying exactly what is on my mind.

I find any man...yes, any man...who would submit to another for sexual gratification, fun, play...as being weak.



Thankfully, my own personal opinions do not intrude on those in relationships who disagree with this.


You are really surprising me IrishMist.
I have always appreciated and enjoyed your opinions here even when I have not always agreed with them because they make me think.
And your honesty is one of the things I like about you.

I did not realise that you have suddenly acquired a scrying device and you know what my motives in asking are.
If that is the case will you please tell me when am I going to get a puppy?


So, If any man who submits is "weak", what about women?


(btw: I am not taking your opinion anymore personally than you are taking my opinion.)

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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:42:40 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

So are you saying that in your eyes, a submissive man is not much of a man?

In my eyes yes.

Such a shame that so many take a personal opinion personally. Oh well...can't expect much more than that, I guess.


Well son of a bitch.....guess I spent the last 48 years deluding myself into thinking I was a man..well dayum!

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 7/11/2009 1:46:17 PM >

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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:45:30 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

How about someone who submitted when they were in their early 20's and a couple of years in, discovered that they loved the other side of the kneel.
And how do you feel about Doms who love sensation play on the recieving end; who are both sadists and masochists.

I am not asking this to aggravate you.
I would just like to understand.

No, you are trying to get me say what you know I am going to say so that you can get on your holy-roller-higher-than-thou-horse. But that's ok, I don't mind being honest and saying exactly what is on my mind.

I find any man...yes, any man...who would submit to another for sexual gratification, fun, play...as being weak.



Thankfully, my own personal opinions do not intrude on those in relationships who disagree with this.

I'm very saddened that you would say that.  I really am.


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(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:51:01 PM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I changed my last post because to be honest I didn't see the point in my last question

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:54:45 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Just out of morbid curiosity -- do people see someone as being weak as a BAD, NEGATIVE thing?

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RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 1:57:57 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Just out of morbid curiosity -- do people see someone as being weak as a BAD, NEGATIVE thing?


No...it takes a good measure of strength to submit as well as to dominate, no matter what gender the person is.


_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 2:00:27 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Someone who is going to abuse power or a person is going to do so whether they served as submissive or bottom or not.  They lack a sensitivity bone and their damage runs deeper than what they could learn by most experiences.



absolutely!!

i dont think a person can learn empathy, intuition, emotional intelligence through serving another - it would surely just be a perfunctory lesson in humility at best.  the spirit of submission is more than just being there on a physical level and it is more than just serving.

without wanting to be rude, this actually comes through as incredibly patronising and deeply misguided and points to an issue ive often felt gets a little overlooked.

submission is often driven emotionally and viscerally - the mundane issues of every day service are simply outward expressions of that visceral desire to please.... noone can be taught that, but everyone should be aware of it and realise the responsiblity of engaging a submissives submission.  it is more than service and kinky sex for quite a few of us.

and to the answer the question..lol, forgot that bit.  i dont see it as a weakness either, just misguided and of no benefit to anyone.

but... i do know of  a few Doms who were subs before who do have a greater insight, yes.  but they were genuinely sub for that time, not just having a go to satisfy some protocol for a club/group.


< Message edited by lally2 -- 7/11/2009 2:09:29 PM >

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 2:04:48 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		actually Bear that's a myth people state so submissives don't feel bad or ashamed of themselves for being weak and acknowledgeing same which is why they fair better on their knees. 

Submitting and being a slave (i really have no clue what submissives do lol) is a concept of REACTION to doninance and mastery, an acknowledgment that you fair better on your knees and in obedience and discipline of another.  There is no real strength needed for that if that is how you NATURALLY react.

I never get this rally of submissives are strong, submission needs strength etc etc, it just seems like a lot of politically correct mumbo jumbo because so many people put negative connotations on the actuality of how the dynamic exists.  One exists on their knees one does not -- you can't tell me there isn't weakness and strength involved naturally with regard to that idea.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/11/2009 2:07:56 PM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 2:14:43 PM   
LilKittenSub


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LdyWintershade

I have been discussing this issue with several Dominant peers and associates, when I realized I really want the opinion of subs/slaves...

As a sub/slave, do you find it to be a weakness or a benefit for a Dom/me to have served as a sub/slave in the past?

I ask because my local BDSM community organization has a protocol which requires newbie Dom/mes to spend a brief period of time in service to another.  The reason for this, was because the group found that many Dom/mes were unappreciative of, and even irresponsible for the power given to them by others.  As a result, some rather dangerous situations popped up and serious abuses of power.  The group felt that serving for a brief period prior to taking on a sub/slave would encourage a respect for the power they would wield over others, and potentially make them better Dominants.

Would you agree with this reasoning, or would you consider a Master/Mistress that has served another as weak?


- I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death, your right to say it.



I believe 100% that a dom(me) should have spent some measure of time in service to another, if for no other reason than they should know what it is like to be on the recieving end of things. From my experience with the dom(mes) I have spent time with, they all said that spending time in service to another helped them to become the dom(me) they are now. Many dom(mes) that I've run in to that haven't had any experience on the other end of the spectrum ended up having little to know idea just how some of their words/actions could affect the sub in their service.

At the very least, I believe any dom(me) that wants to use any impliments to cause pain should first have the implement used on themselves(if physically possible) so that they know what it feels like, the best ways to use it, and what it feels like if it's used improperly. This is not to say they should be out to hurt themselves, but I've been on the recieving end of a cane used by a dom who didn't know what he was doing, really, and did not know how to temper the pain he was causing.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 2:19:54 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		barelynangel.....I was looking at that from the point of a person having a strength of character to follow their personal inclinations to submit to another. It is far easier for a person to follow convention and live their life according tot he conceived roles of a man should be A B and C and a woman should be X Y and Z. Could be my own slanted view where many see it being a weakness yet I somehow perceive it as a type of strength.

eta: how this applies to one who identifies as a slave; well my own personal experience is quite limited thus I will not speculate.


< Message edited by beargonewild -- 7/11/2009 2:22:11 PM >

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That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Weakness or Benefit???? - 7/11/2009 2:25:05 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Just out of morbid curiosity -- do people see someone as being weak as a BAD, NEGATIVE thing?

LOL,i guess they do.
*shrug*

Personally, I don't see why everyone is having such a hard time with a PERSONAL OPINION. It's just the way I see things; it's not the way the world is.

It simply means that I would not submit to man who I knew had submitted in the past because in my eyes, it makes him weak.

Weak does not equal unintelligent, stupid, or ignorant.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 60
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