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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/12/2009 11:34:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

(and, even in situations where I would get offended, I find myself scrutinizing whether I should be so).

I guess any one of us could sit here and try to find a reason as to why one thing offends us while something similar doesn't, but it's nearly impossible to do so. I really don't think there's any kind of logic-based rationale for something like this. I think it just comes down to an individual thing; associations in our brains that we've developed over the years, some kind of internal compass that points us in a certain direction, and it feels right to us even if we can't always back it up with a logical thought process.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/12/2009 11:40:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

(and, even in situations where I would get offended, I find myself scrutinizing whether I should be so).

I guess any one of us could sit here and try to find a reason as to why one thing offends us while something similar doesn't, but it's nearly impossible to do so. I really don't think there's any kind of logic-based rationale for something like this. I think it just comes down to an individual thing; associations in our brains that we've developed over the years, some kind of internal compass that points us in a certain direction, and it feels right to us even if we can't always back it up with a logical thought process.

I sometimes find myself in the same position, scrutinizing whether I should be offended/upset at something.
Usually however, it's because I tend NOT to get upset at most things and there are things that might give me pause and I think, "Wait a second. That was really fucked up. I should probably get a bit upset because, well, that WAS really fucked up."

My default setting is pretty much, "oh there is someone doing X,Y, Z." Much in the same way I would think, "Oh, the mailman is here."

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/12/2009 11:53:21 PM

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G'morning all:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
Bella, Uh, if you don't like it, GETTHEFUCKOUT!
Who died and declared YOUR RIGHTS more important than mine?

No one. That does not however negate my rights. I'm just as vociferous in the defense of my rights as anyone else. When I sit down to a meal, no one else has the right to interrupt my meal, not you or your children. If you can't control them or yourself, I'll make sure the management takes appropriate action if you have failed to operate with dignity and courtesy. Which by your reply, must be a foreign concept to you. *shrugs* The loss of self control reflects poorly on just you, not me.

Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...

Bella

{edited for typo}

< Message edited by Bella1965 -- 7/13/2009 12:02:20 AM >

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 1:52:45 AM

ChasingOblivion

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

When it comes to breastfeeding no matter how beautiful or wonderful a thing it is no matter how acceptable or not it becomes it is still a Person Sucking on another persons Breast in Public.

The Point is not the Process the point is the Visual Front.

The reason Public BDSM and Public Breast feeding are offten used in conjunctin with one another isn because most offten the two acts are misunderstood. A Person sees the breastfeeding as something other than what it really is and I believe that people rearely understand what the acts involved in BDSM are truely all about.

Yes they are still two Very different things but the visual aspects of each bring about strong feelings in those who witness it especially those who believe they should not have to. Oddly enough in my opinion to believe one is acceptable you are a hypocrit if you believe the other is not.

Just my Opinion. (Yes I am aware I will take shit for it)

Steel

I completely agree, and I'm sure I'll get shit for it too.
And another thing, if it's perfectly legal and acceptable for people to put their children on those horrible little toddler leashes because they're too lazy to chase after them, why would putting your sub/slave on a leash be such a huge fucking issue??
It's not like you're whipping your cock out at Toys R Us for Christ's sake.
Just my opinion.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 3:20:54 AM

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quote:

if I'm in a restaurant or some other public venue where I'm paying for a service or product, I do not tolerate screaming brats or public nudity, even for breast feeding. If a pointed look is insufficient, I will politely ask said individuals to cease and desist. No one needs to be subjected to rudeness when they are shelling out funds for satisfaction.

Nursing moms are protected under the law, both with their right to nurse in public and with protection from indecency laws.

These laws are in place to protect us from closed minded individuals such as yourself.

*and btw...if you had the balls, intestinal fortitude and audacity to tell me to "cease and desist" i can pretty much guarantee i will cut you off at your knees*

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 3:52:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Still a long way off in most towns but I think society is pushing closer to the point where it is acceptable to see F/F or M/M couples show affection for each other compared to the distant past.

* Partner on leash
* Playful but firm spanking
* Gagged
* Partner following behind in an obvious submissive posture
* Putting a well written and tasteful flyer next to another in a store window
* Pro Dom leaving a business card with others
* ...
* ....

i have no desire to be exposed to anyones kink in public.

I do not care :P

Really though Holly you /we / us are exposed to all sorts of things in public. Possibly we desire some of them or possibly we do not. I feel ya though.

*feel me again and i am going to smack ya a good one*

If i were by myself, say in Walmart, and saw an obvious BDSM related act, i would no doubt look away if it bothered me.

However (here it comes) if i am with my three year old, it would be a whole different story. I would turn away immediately, but little ones have an uncanny knack of seeing what you do not want them to see. No one has the right to expose a child to their kink. And please, as a mom, do not put me in the position where i have to try to explain it.

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 5:21:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

I'm just as vociferous in the defense of my rights as anyone else. When I sit down to a meal, no one else has the right to interrupt my meal, not you or your children. If you can't control them or yourself, I'll make sure the management takes appropriate action if you have failed to operate with dignity and courtesy.

Freedom from annoyance is not a "right" and the situation would only back up this position based on the rules and regulations of the private establishment you would both be at.

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to Bella1965)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 5:24:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

No one has the right to expose a child to their kink.

Except that "kink" is a variable term. The mentality that we can blame people doing things they are free to do (and should be free to do) because we couldn't make our kids turn away fast enough or chose to "expose" them to public reality doesn't entitle anyone to abridge another's freedom of expression.

Again, though...this situation would be dealt with according to Wal-Mart (private) policies.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 5:39:05 AM

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quote:

The mentality that we can blame people doing things they are free to do (and should be free to do) because we couldn't make our kids turn away fast enough or chose to "expose" them to public reality doesn't entitle anyone to abridge another's freedom of expression.

i never said it did. However...if you cannot control yourself, cannot practice your "kink" in venues where it does not put parents in the unenviable position of trying to explain something to a wee one that is beyond their ability to understand, i would suggest you have issues not mentioned in this thread

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 5:44:44 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

In other words, you want little people, who have not matured, to have common consideration for you. Yet, as an adult, you are not willing to respond in kind to someone who might find your actions, just as irritating.

And this, for me, is the issue more than anything else. I am pretty hung up on 'freedom of expression', but I think that adults have a responsibility to themselves to gauge a situation and behave with a bit of dignity where the situation requires.

I -don't- think that there should be laws governing things like nudity, PDAs, etc., and I understand that this would mean that, at times, I might find myself having to explain to someone I was with who was not as familiar as I am with certain things -why- someone would be doing such a thing... at the same time, I think that we've gone -way- too far in the direction of completely dismissing common courtesy and good manners, and have nearly completely lost our capacity to interact with one another without being just plain -rude-.

As an individual with mammaries who nursed my offspring in normal mammalian fashion, I had no issue whatsoever with nursing in public. It is, after all, what mammaries were designed to do. I also think it completely -rocks- that I read last week that Canada allows that if a male can go topless, so can a female. At the same time, I think that there is a measure of dignity and respect that one has for _oneself_ that allows one to determine the -least- offensive way to express oneself honestly in a given group of people. I'm not talking about hiding and lying -- I'm talking about choosing means of expressing HONESTLY what one's dynamic entails in a way that is nourishing to the dynamic while still not causing a disturbance in the pleasant and constructive tone of one's immediate environment.

I don't think we need to curtail freedoms or create unnecessary and restricting laws to contain people's behaviors to acceptable standards... I think that we need to find ways to gauge situations and compromise sufficiently to respect that there are a broad range of practices and relational dynamics in the world, and that we can use a little self-restraint in both our -presentation- of our personal dynamic, and in the way that we respond to the presentations of other peoples' dynamics. Good manners go a LONG, LONG way towards smoothing the issues of refining and re-defining appropriate behavior without inciting violence. I've noted with a great deal of sorrow that it is much harder to get anything done in the States, since good manners went by the wayside and everyone is all up in everyone else's face demanding their 'rights' so loudly and proudly that they're walking all over everyone around them to do it.

Dame Calla

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 5:50:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

In other words, you want little people, who have not matured, to have common consideration for you. Yet, as an adult, you are not willing to respond in kind to someone who might find your actions, just as irritating.

AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 5:55:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

(and, even in situations where I would get offended, I find myself scrutinizing whether I should be so).

And so you should otherwise you'd be a hypocrite.

`fr`

There are laws which 'should' be in place. Laws which cover damage, either financial or personal. Kidnapping, murder, bank robbing .. it's good to have laws that provide consquences for those actions because they hurt someone else. If the guy on the bus is playing his boom box so loud that he can cause damage to MY hearing, yeah, that should be against the law. Laws which cover morality are asinine because it's way to subjective. Why is walking around nude illegal in so many places in the states? Because it offends the morality of 'some' people. That's why those are bad laws. They're not objective.

Like I said before, I defy anyone to point to any case where a nipple caused damage to someone, anyone, anywhere at any time. Why cover up the glorious nipple? Nipples rock.

So, should it be illegal to flash someone? Hold on. Yes, it should. Why?

If I'm walking along and there are two people naked on a park bench, minding their own business having crazy monkey sex (and no, it's not necessarily GT) and I stop and look, I have impeded my own progress. If I am walking along and someone steps in front of me to flash me, then that person has impeded my progress. In one, I had the option of stopping, in the other I didn't. That's the difference.

The flasher took something from me (my time even if it was only a moment or two of it) that I didn't offer to give. The couple on the bench took nothing from me. I choose to be the gawker, to stop and look, to give up a few moments of my time by my own choice. No crime, no harm, no foul.

edited to add: I just read some of the other responses and I'm nonplussed by the idea that breastfeeding should be hidden. Seriously? A baby's need to eat is supposed to be superceded by someone else's moral indignation? Really? Give me a fucking break. That's just dumb.

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Rock, paper, scissors."

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 6:02:05 AM

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quote:

I just read some of the other responses and I'm nonplussed by the idea that breastfeeding should be hidden. Seriously? A baby's need to eat is supposed to be superceded by someone else's moral indignation? Really? Give me a fucking break. That's just dumb.

Bita...i don't think it is about a babies right to eat. Some are just offended that Mom does not lock herself in a filthy bathroom stall to do it

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 7:16:05 AM

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quote:

I don't know that willingly choosing to manacle my freedoms for the taste of others who can't morally handle it (even if they are people I care about) qualifies as "maturity" so much as "superfluous courtesy that may have some sensible reasoning".

You can call it what you want, "sensible reasoning" works for me, but I do think it is the difference between a simplistic egocentric perception of the world and the mature perception of an adult who views the world contexually,

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 8:47:48 AM

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G'morning all:

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
These laws are in place to protect us from closed minded individuals such as yourself.
*and btw...if you had the balls, intestinal fortitude and audacity to tell me to "cease and desist" i can pretty much guarantee i will cut you off at your knees*

Such as there are laws to protect me from individuals like you. Such as the freedom of speech. Also, if a patron is uncomfortable and makes a request to the management of an establishment, it is their decision, not yours, whether you remain there. If you exhibit the piss poor manners and etiquette to impose your "rights" to interrupt another patron's enjoyment, you'll be the one suffering the consequences, not I.

As to what balls I have? You have no idea how far I would go to protect my rights. Since I'm not as rude as you, I will leave it at that.

Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...

Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!

(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 9:26:02 AM

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quote:

Also, if a patron is uncomfortable and makes a request to the management of an establishment, it is their decision, not yours, whether you remain there. If you exhibit the piss poor manners and etiquette to impose your "rights" to interrupt another patron's enjoyment, you'll be the one suffering the consequences, not I.

Wrong. It is NOT the decision of the management. It is the LAW. It is my right to stay in a public venue (such as a restaurant) while nursing.

I doubt a restaurant manager will break the law to shut up a whiny patron

You can stand there and pitch as much of a fit as you care to...i will continue to nurse my child, eat dinner and laugh at you...and will not leave until we are done.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 7/13/2009 9:39:14 AM >

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 9:35:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild
I may not have "consented"

I kissed you (it seemed "consensual" ) when we met Bear (looks like we're safe from being "uncles" ... and not directly related to R.S. ... at least just yet ... even though that is inevitable) ... who is the judge of that ? I know ! ... It's either A GOD ... ... ... or ... ME ! (am I developing into the messiah complex or did I really meet the "Chosen One" ... !!! )

You know well I'm VERY intolerant over certain things and especially the gratuitous bull shit (ref:phrasebook) that vermin bring here out of mockery. I hope you will join me in wishing them all happiness.

Pirate

(founding the "bear went wild" Bear protection "Crew")

On my integrity as a truthful person....it was consensual.

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 9:49:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

G'morning all:

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
These laws are in place to protect us from closed minded individuals such as yourself.
*and btw...if you had the balls, intestinal fortitude and audacity to tell me to "cease and desist" i can pretty much guarantee i will cut you off at your knees*

Such as there are laws to protect me from individuals like you. Such as the freedom of speech. Also, if a patron is uncomfortable and makes a request to the management of an establishment, it is their decision, not yours, whether you remain there. If you exhibit the piss poor manners and etiquette to impose your "rights" to interrupt another patron's enjoyment, you'll be the one suffering the consequences, not I.

As to what balls I have? You have no idea how far I would go to protect my rights. Since I'm not as rude as you, I will leave it at that.

Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...

Bella

I am curious...where is the line between maintaining your personal rights and avoiding that infringing on someone else's rights? It just seems that with all this heated debate about what is appropriate public behavior and what isn't is due to people's reaction of having their level of comfortability being rattled. Good examples is some people are against breast feeding in public, some are annoyed at PDA. I'd like to believe that the majority of the population will use and does use a certain amount of tact and discretion in these areas.

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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 11:10:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

If it were commonplace that would be different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

So...based on the two excerpts, are we really just saying that the reason a topic is "sensitive" (thereby making it something that would piss you off to have to discuss unprepared) pretty much simply based on the fact that it's not "commonplace"?

Yes, back when hanging negro's because a white man raped someone was "commonplace" it wasn't much of a senstive subject. You really must have an interesting reality.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/13/2009 11:13:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
I will make compromises, from time to time, out of respect for the sensitivities of my neighbors, regardless whether I think those sensitivities are backward, or not. I think that's called maturity.

I don't know that willingly choosing to manacle my freedoms for the taste of others who can't morally handle it (even if they are people I care about) qualifies as "maturity" so much as "superfluous courtesy that may have some sensible reasoning".

Okay, my world is turning upside down, a Gorean Master is advocating civility and someone else is calling him a pansy because of it..

Leonidas, any time you show up at Merc's the beer is on me, Nihilus, sorry dude but you have to buy your own.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 7/13/2009 11:19:59 AM >

(in reply to NihilusZero)

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