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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:00:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

It appears that many Blue Dog Democrats want changes, or they will block the health care bill.

'Blue Dog' Democrats may block health care bill - CNN.com

Which is where Democrats always manage to find a way to shoot themselves in the foot.

On one hand you can argue it shows the diversity of the party by actually having a strong fiscally conservative group.

On the other hand it also weakens the party when you have Republicans who will vote as a bloc in opposition with rarely any defectors.

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:10:08 PM

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It is too early to tell what comes out of this Obama administration effort. I see no reason for optimism. Will the result make medical insurance executives happy as it did for bankers? I like the idea of universal coverage though: healthy unemployed is happier than unhealthy.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:11:21 PM

Brain

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Republicans Respond To HELP Bill Passage By Lying About The Bill
Today, the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee (HELP) passed health care reform legislation that extends coverage to all Americans, protects employer-based coverage, lowers the growth of health care spending, and contains a public health insurance option. Despite the fact that the committee accepted 160 Republican amendments and spent 13 days and more than 60 hours debating the legislation during mark-up, no Republicans voted for the final bill.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/15/republicans-respond-to-help-bill-passage-by-lying-about-the-bill/

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:14:33 PM

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quote:

The $1 trillion cost of the health care plan is spread over 10 years.

The ten years was addressed last night at length.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:30:02 PM

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quote:

As an addendum, I think that there are some things that should remain "for profit" and which universal health care shouldn't pay for... things like face-lifts or other cosmetic problems that are -not- done to alleviate gross deformity or health issues (for example, I think that plastic surgery to remove excess skin after extreme weight loss should be a covered procedure, but a tummy-tuck for bikini season should be an optional procedure that a person pays for out of pocket. In the same way, plastic surgery to repair a harelip should be covered by universal health care, but collagen injections for the lips should be strictly 'out of pocket'). These areas would provide a field where, I suppose, if a person were in the medical field for the money, xhe could still make a rather prodigious income... and I suppose that, if insurance companies wanted to tap into that, they could sell things like "Age-Minimizing Insurance" and "Figure-Enhancement Insurance". I'm ambivalent about things like IVF. In general, I think that if a couple can't have children, there are -so- many kids who need families that really, IVF and its ilk are sort of "luxury" procedures to me -- but I suppose that if a doctor could provide a good medical reason why IVF was a necessity and not a luxury, that a particular case could be covered. I guess I just don't think that things like IVF should be -routinely- covered.

I can't explain the problem I am having with the system so I will shut up. I want to do something cheap and they won't let me.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 7/16/2009 1:41:34 PM >

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:40:27 PM

Brain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

The $1 trillion cost of the health care plan is spread over 10 years.

The ten years was addressed last night at length.

I hope this helps clarify,
Unfortunately, repeating talking points doesn’t make them true. Below is a fact check of Republican claims:
CLAIM: The bill will contribute trillions of dollars to the national deficit.
FACT: The budget framework requires a deficit-neutral health care reform bill, and the Democrats have pledged to fully finance coverage expansion from savings within the system and new sources of revenue. The Senate Finance Committee is responsible for financing the measure.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/15/republicans-respond-to-help-bill-passage-by-lying-about-the-bill/

(in reply to Lorr47)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:43:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

The $1 trillion cost of the health care plan is spread over 10 years.

The ten years was addressed last night at length.

I hope this helps clarify,
Unfortunately, repeating talking points doesn’t make them true. Below is a fact check of Republican claims:
CLAIM: The bill will contribute trillions of dollars to the national deficit.
FACT: The budget framework requires a deficit-neutral health care reform bill, and the Democrats have pledged to fully finance coverage expansion from savings within the system and new sources of revenue. The Senate Finance Committee is responsible for financing the measure.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/15/republicans-respond-to-help-bill-passage-by-lying-about-the-bill/

Does Obama have the votes in his own party to force the health care bill through without the republicans and then withstand a filibuster? I have never felt the 60 number meant much and with Blue Dog Democrats perhaps not. Does he have that much moral suasion in his own party?

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 7/16/2009 1:52:18 PM >

(in reply to Brain)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 1:55:18 PM

Brain

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Maybe, I don’t know. I don’t know if anybody knows for sure. A locked depends on Max Baucus and he is the chairman and runs the finance committee in the Senate. He is a friend of Tom Daschle. Apparently, there are a couple of guys who used to work for Max and they are now in the White House. I hope they are working together to try to get this through and coordinate it somehow

(in reply to Lorr47)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 2:14:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

The $1 trillion cost of the health care plan is spread over 10 years.

The ten years was addressed last night at length.

You'll have to elaborate, because I'm not sure if you are agreeing, disagreeing, or just acknowledging it.

(in reply to Lorr47)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 2:25:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

The $1 trillion cost of the health care plan is spread over 10 years.

The ten years was addressed last night at length.

You'll have to elaborate, because I'm not sure if you are agreeing, disagreeing, or just acknowledging it.

Agreeing and acknowledging it. Today, some reported the estimated figure and forgot to mention that the expenditure was over ten years. Last night a network emphasized the ten years as you did. To me it makes a difference.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 7/16/2009 2:26:25 PM >

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 4:58:23 PM

Brain

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Budget umpire: Health care bills would raise costs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 8:57:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

What we have today is Wall Street run healthcare not government healthcare or not health care for the people

You got it. Just as in the prescription drug benefit which turned out to be a multi-billion dollar ($3.5 and counting) windfall for the drug cos., what would have the American people believe that would change with health care reform ?

Kinkroids, we live in a for-profit society and nothing short of 537 new 'statesmen' will change that at the federal level.

(in reply to Brain)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 10:23:58 PM

Brain

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Arkansas Democrat Has Votes to Block Socialist Healthcare

http://www.freshconservative.com/Fresh_Conservative/Fresh_Conservative/Entries/2009/7/16_Arkansas_Democrat_Has_Votes_to_Block_Socialist_Healthcare.html

U.S. Rep. Mike Ross (D-AR) says that he has more than enough votes to stall out the proposed socialist healthcare plan being promoted by the Obama administration. Representative Ross, who is a member of the House Energy and Commerce committee, is a self-appointed fiscally conservative democrat (who knew?). “Last time I checked, it takes seven Democrats to stop a bill in the Energy and Commerce Committee," Ross told reporters after a House vote. "We had seven against it last Friday; we have 10 today." If these Democrats do indeed wield their power to stop this socialist healthcare reform, they will force the issue to get stuck in committee indefinitely, which is where it belongs. The Energy and Commerce Committee is seen as the largest hurdle in the Democrat’s plan to shoe-horn socialist medicine upon an uneducated and unsuspecting U.S. public. The Democrats on this committee have the opportunity of a lifetime in front of them. They can, with their blockade, literally save the American people from themselves, as the
uneducated masses do not understand what socialist healthcare really means for individuals and small businesses in the United States.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 7:33:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Arkansas Democrat Has Votes to Block Socialist Healthcare

http://www.freshconservative.com/Fresh_Conservative/Fresh_Conservative/Entries/2009/7/16_Arkansas_Democrat_Has_Votes_to_Block_Socialist_Healthcare.html

U.S. Rep. Mike Ross (D-AR) says that he has more than enough votes to stall out the proposed socialist healthcare plan being promoted by the Obama administration. Representative Ross, who is a member of the House Energy and Commerce committee, is a self-appointed fiscally conservative democrat (who knew?). “Last time I checked, it takes seven Democrats to stop a bill in the Energy and Commerce Committee," Ross told reporters after a House vote. "We had seven against it last Friday; we have 10 today." If these Democrats do indeed wield their power to stop this socialist healthcare reform, they will force the issue to get stuck in committee indefinitely, which is where it belongs. The Energy and Commerce Committee is seen as the largest hurdle in the Democrat’s plan to shoe-horn socialist medicine upon an uneducated and unsuspecting U.S. public. The Democrats on this committee have the opportunity of a lifetime in front of them. They can, with their blockade, literally save the American people from themselves, as the
uneducated masses do not understand what socialist healthcare really means for individuals and small businesses in the United States.

Do you want the health care system (if it can be called that) to continue in its present form?

(in reply to Brain)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 8:02:43 AM

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If the question asked was "will Congress finally give us the health care bill we need?" then the answer is "No!" Doing the right thing is against the very nature of most of thoise on Capitol Hill. They are greedy, lying, self serving useless pieces of garbage who only do what is good for them and their rich buddies. They piss on us out of their ivory towers and tell us they made it rain. Whats worse is that some like to drink the koolade made with that rain water.

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(in reply to Lorr47)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 9:03:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

If the question asked was "will Congress finally give us the health care bill we need?" then the answer is "No!" Doing the right thing is against the very nature of most of thoise on Capitol Hill. They are greedy, lying, self serving useless pieces of garbage who only do what is good for them and their rich buddies. They piss on us out of their ivory towers and tell us they made it rain. Whats worse is that some like to drink the koolade made with that rain water.

Unfortunately, you are probably right. A survey said that the majority of the people feel that the republicans are terminally dishonest and immoral while the democrats are terminally dumb. Either way we are screwed.

(in reply to Irishknight)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 10:19:19 AM

Brain

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Dems' Health Care Reform Plans Would Include Abortion Coverage, Washington Times Opinion Piece States
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/156578.php

(in reply to Lorr47)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 10:25:01 AM

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I agree with IrishKnight. I used to watch news programs, city counsel meetings, cspan, all sorts of things that kept me half aware of what was going on. I worked with, loved and advocated for many people and causes and I needed to be informed. As my health took a toll and then life became unmanageable with the loss of my business with 911, I was lucky to have a tv to watch or even my computer with me as I roamed around trying to stablize my life. I lost touch... I wasn't informed and couldn't really get informed. The illness took too much from my mental abilities to sort it all out and as I tried I had to give up because of my adult son's situation, the medical malpractice caps they sold to Colorado saying they would cut cost and help and what to do about a situation where I had a brain damaged son to care for even though I was ill, no money to support him on, no ability to sue for a serious damage case because there wasn't enough in it for the lawyers and insurance running out or stopping a month after his retrieval from death. I saw in my own health situation how things didn't work and then got a refreasher course with my son.

I have woken up to cspan a number of days recently and have woken up angry. Promises for change are only as good as the powers that be are willing to give us and we all know that they are finding their way around it all. It is business as usual.

When I hear the things they are adding to things, the amendments to amendments, the programs they are funding rather than stopping all bs because we are a nation in trouble and can't afford it all, the hidden taxes and cost for us all, the way they present it as one thing but it becomes something else in how it actually works and few who are voting take the time to understand rather than vote based on a fast skim through the bill... I am sickened at what is actually taking place and what the results will be.

They aren't doing away with the money mongers or insurance companies... they just make some new and confusing rules that will run the small business person out as they ignorantly try to survive with the employees they have and health care becomes worse because no one knows what the fuck is going on except the insurance companies.

I may not have a good grasp on what is happening... but I think I understand enough to say... fuck them for fucking us again and hold on tight to your britches because you are gunna get it up the ass with no lube.

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(in reply to Lorr47)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 10:40:30 AM

Arpig

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Hey brain, rather than just posting blog links, how about telling us where you stand. What do you think about all these stories you keep posting?

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 10:45:16 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Budget umpire: Health care bills would raise costs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

I'm sorry, but the only way to end the rising cost of health-care is to get it out of the realm of 'for profit' industry. As long as companies are involved in health care to make a profit, health care costs will continue to rise, because profits must rise. If we want reasonable health care costs, then there can be no benefit aside from meeting ones operational costs (which could be significantly reduced were we to move to a single-payor plan) and that of knowing that one's work is healing individuals.

I can't be clear enough about this -- as long as insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, pharmacies, imaging centers, cancer treatment centers, hospices, nursing facilities, etc., are in business to make a profit off of people's poor health, there will -always- be health disparity, always be excessive cost, always be excessive paperwork, always be denial of services and always... always... the costs will be rising to keep the company's profits as high as they can possibly be, so that the stockholders, rather than the patients and practitioners, determine appropriate medical care and the costs thereof.

Profit has NO BUSINESS in the health care business. Bottom line.

DC

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/17/2009 10:46:20 AM >

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