RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (Full Version)

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heartcream -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/23/2009 8:46:43 PM)

I read about 2/3's of the replies. My opinion OP is it was a blessing he left his mail open and you saw it so you undoubtedly know the guy was jerking you around. I dont think it was unethical for you to read it, it was right there, you didnt click around to find it but anyway, the guy was lying and cheating on you, he is a train wreck. The Universe dropped the bomb right in your lap so you wouldnt need to go back and forth wondering whether to dump his dumb lying ass.

You are nothing like him that is why you dont belong with him.



lally2 -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 1:16:14 AM)

i think its terribly easy to make judgements of people whilst sitting in the comfort of youre own home with nothing to lose but a bit of time.

we dont know what led her to read his emails, people assume it was out of pure noseyness, id prefer to give her he benefit of the doubt before throwing stones at a woman, who has afterall, just had to face something really unpleasant about a person she thought enough about to submit to.

i havent got time to go back and read her post again right now.  but many of us have been where she was - you get a feeling when something doesnt hang right, when you know someone is holding something back or just plain lying.  in the end all you want is proof so you can do the right thing for youreself.

i had to wait 4 months before i finally got the truth out of my sons dad.  all that time i knew deep down, i just couldnt prove it and he just kept lying about it.  its not a good place to be.  sometimes its the not knowing that makes the whole thing more destructive and miserable.  youve been made a fool of and youre feelings are being tramped all over.

sometimes taking care of youreself is the only 'ethical' option left open to you.  sometimes a person doesnt deserve to be treated with the respect they demand from you - and thats the kicker, submitting to someone is supposed to be about trust and respect. 



RCdc -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 4:27:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
and thats the kicker, submitting to someone is supposed to be about trust and respect. 


Except when it isn't.
 
the.dark.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 5:00:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002

His point was that he is a Dom, a KING, a Master, and has the right to do as he pleases without me questioning him.



Let him rule his own Kingdom, seems he's the only one in it, he can start ruling himself...

The point was that you agreed on a certain conduct, he thinks he's not bound to what you agreed on account that he's the Dom. Sorry, but he's having delusions of his own importance. Contracts and agreements are not one sided affairs, if the dominant in the relationship doesn't keep promises, the trust is broken and are you willing to trust somebody with your safety in play if he takes such a chevalier approach?

Sorry that you got hurt, but I think you made the right decision.



lally2 -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 6:13:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
and thats the kicker, submitting to someone is supposed to be about trust and respect. 


Except when it isn't.
 
the.dark.

 
smiles)) - yes i kinda walked into that.. [:D] 
 
.. and ive just reread OP's post and it would seem she just dipped into private stuff without permission.  which is a little like listening at key holes - even so -
 
using a D'card rather than an apology (presumably cos he's far too Domly to apologise or admit fault) just tends to confirm on lots and lots of levels what an idiot he was.
 
dont be heartbroken. xx



Padriag -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 6:52:18 AM)

FR

The thing I find most intriguing about this thread, is that it has generated 5 pages of responses so far.



LaTigresse -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 7:20:38 AM)

Oui. I wonder what people would say if the mail came in the post. Flowery scented lavender envelopes with little hearts, flowers and "I love you"s, all over it. Would it be acceptable for her to have opened and read them?

Or a box, locked, key left lying on the dresser? Is it acceptable for her to use the key and dig through the contents?

Based upon past threads, the answers would be far different. Seems the fact that it is his email on his computer makes no difference, and the result of snooping, justify the bad behaviour.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 7:37:17 AM)

Isn't that twisting the subject a bit and playing blame the victim? He left the mail open, that's like leaving a letter around OPEN, she did not hack his mailbox, and the fact is, he was exposed as a liar and a cheat. End of story!

You know, I would not open the letter of my partner, no way, but would he leave an open letter laying around and the worlds "I love you" would jump to my face, I would have a look at it. Would you advocate closing your eyes to obvious signs of betrayal? Then most people would possibly tell her "Why didn't you see the warning signs!"



CreativeDominant -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 7:39:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Oui. I wonder what people would say if the mail came in the post. Flowery scented lavender envelopes with little hearts, flowers and "I love you"s, all over it. Would it be acceptable for her to have opened and read them?

Or a box, locked, key left lying on the dresser? Is it acceptable for her to use the key and dig through the contents?

Based upon past threads, the answers would be far different. Seems the fact that it is his email on his computer makes no difference, and the result of snooping, justify the bad behaviour.

Nicely said, LaTigresse...as usual[sm=yourock.gif]

This is what I have been trying to say also...so many people want to convince the OP that she did the right thing in leaving the guy.  I agree.  She DID do the right thing in leaving the guy.
But so many people want to say that his behavior...because it was so much worse than hers...justifies her behavior even beyond reading the first letter.  Sorry, I don't feel that way.  That first letter...read because of the "subject thread/title" that was on display on his screen was damning enough to cause her to wonder.  Fine, she was wondering...time to confront him.  People say that he would just lie to her.  Fine, then let her next line be..."Alright...you say that one email is an aberration...show me the proof of that.  Show me that you are being honest by showing me that there are no more emails." 
Again...it comes down to choices.  I don't go along with the idea that "unethical is unethical" and I did not claim that in my posts.  There are degrees of ethics just as there are degrees of lying just as there are degrees of criminal activities.
beth brought up the perfect example and it is one I have used in speaking to submissives myself...to put it simply..."do I look fat in this?"  Depending on many factors...whether or not she really wants the truth, mood, where we are supposed to be and when, how she really does look, etc....my answer is going to vary.  I think that is true for many men who've learned through hard experience that the honest answer is NOT what is always hoped for or sought.  But it depends on the degree and the context.
Do I think the OP committed an unethical act?  Yes, I do.  Do I think it falls within the same realm or approaches the degree of wrongness of his behavior?  No, I do not even when she kept reading.  But I won't give her a complete pass for the reasons I've given and for the same reasons that LaTigresse gave.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 7:46:35 AM)

Yup I agree with CD and LAT. Lies, sneaking around and manipulation is no way to have a relationship or lead your life, something I have had impressed on me heavily recently. If you need to read your partners emails or texts or whatever that seems to suggest a lack of trust anyway or else you wouldn't have done it. If you do not trust someone then confront the issue right away, or else yes you do become guilty making the web of crap worse. Also misunderstandings occur and snooping can mean that a relationship will never be the same again. Networking sites and new technology has a lot to answer for when it comes to breaking up relationships.

I do not think that his lies mitigate her snooping.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 7:52:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Isn't that twisting the subject a bit and playing blame the victim? He left the mail open, that's like leaving a letter around OPEN, she did not hack his mailbox, and the fact is, he was exposed as a liar and a cheat. End of story!

You know, I would not open the letter of my partner, no way, but would he leave an open letter laying around and the worlds "I love you" would jump to my face, I would have a look at it. Would you advocate closing your eyes to obvious signs of betrayal? Then most people would possibly tell her "Why didn't you see the warning signs!"

But see...she DIDN'T just read the first opened mail, she kept on clicking OPEN and reading other mails.

Blaming the victim...yanno, I have to wonder....why is it when someone has done something wrong, we move them into victim status because someone else did something else MORE wrong first?  She's a grown human being, with choices and options available to her and her own code of ethics to follow.  In her code of ethics, dishonesty and cheating are not O.K. but snooping beyond the proof you have with the first letter IS O.K..  That doesn't put her code of behavior/ethics down there to the same level as his...and few have said that it does... but neither is her behavior made right by his.



LaTigresse -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 7:57:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Isn't that twisting the subject a bit and playing blame the victim? He left the mail open, that's like leaving a letter around OPEN, she did not hack his mailbox, and the fact is, he was exposed as a liar and a cheat. End of story!

You know, I would not open the letter of my partner, no way, but would he leave an open letter laying around and the worlds "I love you" would jump to my face, I would have a look at it. Would you advocate closing your eyes to obvious signs of betrayal? Then most people would possibly tell her "Why didn't you see the warning signs!"



I am not "blaming the victim" I am saying that her behaviour, as well as his, was not stellar. If ANYone, regardless of who, were to be sneaking around in my stuff, whatever that stuff is, they would be tossed on their ear. If they've been given permission, entirely different ballgame.

IF someone feels they need to snoop around in my stuff they've chosen the wrong person. My computer, my purse, my desk, my jewelry dresser, my closet, my toybag, anyplace I keep personal stuff is OFF LIMITS unless given specific permission.

That is the way I was raised, the way I raised my children and the behaviour I expect of all adults. You ask before sticking your mitts in my stuff.

She didn't.

Edited to add: another thing I think is pathetic. If genders and the D/s were switched, and this same scenario was posted on the mistress forum, I think the replies would be vasty different. I think the male sub would be castrated, and not in a fun way.I may be wrong, but I have a hunch no.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 9:16:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Isn't that twisting the subject a bit and playing blame the victim? He left the mail open, that's like leaving a letter around OPEN, she did not hack his mailbox, and the fact is, he was exposed as a liar and a cheat. End of story!

You know, I would not open the letter of my partner, no way, but would he leave an open letter laying around and the worlds "I love you" would jump to my face, I would have a look at it. Would you advocate closing your eyes to obvious signs of betrayal? Then most people would possibly tell her "Why didn't you see the warning signs!"

But see...she DIDN'T just read the first opened mail, she kept on clicking OPEN and reading other mails.

Blaming the victim...yanno, I have to wonder....why is it when someone has done something wrong, we move them into victim status because someone else did something else MORE wrong first?  She's a grown human being, with choices and options available to her and her own code of ethics to follow.  In her code of ethics, dishonesty and cheating are not O.K. but snooping beyond the proof you have with the first letter IS O.K..  That doesn't put her code of behavior/ethics down there to the same level as his...and few have said that it does... but neither is her behavior made right by his.



I would have done the same thing! Out of selfprotection, if there is something wrong I want to go to the bottom of it. Now how about HE LEFT THE MAILS THERE FOR HER TO READ....

Sorry, but if I leave my car unlocked and somebody takes my handbag, I got myself to blame. Why is everybody so keen to blame her for acting in her own best interest? Would any of us not have done the same?



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 9:17:59 AM)

I have been left in front of partners opened email accounts and have never felt compelled to read the messages



LaTigresse -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 9:21:58 AM)

And I don't snoop in people medicine chests either........



LadyConstanze -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 9:24:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Isn't that twisting the subject a bit and playing blame the victim? He left the mail open, that's like leaving a letter around OPEN, she did not hack his mailbox, and the fact is, he was exposed as a liar and a cheat. End of story!

You know, I would not open the letter of my partner, no way, but would he leave an open letter laying around and the worlds "I love you" would jump to my face, I would have a look at it. Would you advocate closing your eyes to obvious signs of betrayal? Then most people would possibly tell her "Why didn't you see the warning signs!"



I am not "blaming the victim" I am saying that her behaviour, as well as his, was not stellar. If ANYone, regardless of who, were to be sneaking around in my stuff, whatever that stuff is, they would be tossed on their ear. If they've been given permission, entirely different ballgame.

IF someone feels they need to snoop around in my stuff they've chosen the wrong person. My computer, my purse, my desk, my jewelry dresser, my closet, my toybag, anyplace I keep personal stuff is OFF LIMITS unless given specific permission.

That is the way I was raised, the way I raised my children and the behaviour I expect of all adults. You ask before sticking your mitts in my stuff.

She didn't.

Edited to add: another thing I think is pathetic. If genders and the D/s were switched, and this same scenario was posted on the mistress forum, I think the replies would be vasty different. I think the male sub would be castrated, and not in a fun way.I may be wrong, but I have a hunch no.




Excuse me, she didn't snoop, he let her use his computer and had a window open with that stuff, stupid move!

I would feel the same way if the gender roles were reversed, it's MY duty to not leave my mail open. Look, if I don't want my partner to see what I have on the screen, I close the laptop, if I leave it open he knows he can read it, simple!



RCdc -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 9:29:52 AM)

So if you leave your door unlocked and go away, I can just walk in and take what I want, because it's your fault you left it open?
 
Cool beans!  Post your address here for future reference.[;)]
 
the.dark.



LaTigresse -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 9:30:53 AM)

Leaving an email main screen open is like leaving unopened envelopes on a desk. It does NOT show the contents of the email, only the title and who they are from. Similar to unopened envelopes. (example: If I walk into my bosses office and see a envelope that says it is from American Express and resembles the one I get each month, I can be certain it is a bill. However, unless I OPEN the envelope I will not know for sure, nor what the details of that bill are) She had to open each email to read it. So taking that comparison, I assume you also condone opening, unopened envelopes, to look at what is inside also?



SimplyMichael -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 11:01:07 AM)

I am curious if those who are standing on soapboxes of perfection would stay in a relationship where they "thought" someone was cheating but couldn't prove it because their ethics put proof just beyond reach and the guy had a perfect explanation all the time?

Would you stay or leave and why?



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior (7/24/2009 11:04:50 AM)

If I was convinced he was cheating, had asked but still couldn't let it lie then I would leave, whether he is or isn't cheating makes no odds because the relationship isn't working

I fail to see how having an opinion on ethics in a post about ethics is being on a soapbox though



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