RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:51:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
If I'm in my house, and a cop walks up and asks me to step outside, you're damn right I'm going to tell him to take a hike.

But you're first going to establish that you're you and that it's your house, right? This guy didn't. He pitched the "do you know who I am" fit. That never works.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:13:09 PM

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quote:

You kiddin' me? What Constitution have you been reading? If I'm in my house, and a cop walks up and asks me to step outside, you're damn right I'm going to tell him to take a hike. Whatever he has to say to me, he can say it at the door, unless he has a warrant. If he has reason to think I broke into the house, we can settle it right there at the door by showing him my ID, but he's not coming in and I'm not coming out. Period.

Fuckin' aye. You do not have to come out of your home unless the police have a warrant for your arrest or a warrant to search the premises. By the way, it's a trick when they ask you to come outside. You're in public once you exit your door, and they can now arrest you for all sorts of vague bullshit. A favorite they like to use is disorderly conduct, because they can make up all sorts of things on a police report to claim that charge. You had a beer with dinner? Don't go outside if the police show up....public intoxication.

It's happened to me before. The charges were all nol prossed in court, but it didn't change the fact that I was detained for 9 hours before I could get someone to bail me out. All of it was the result of a old high school enemy that had joined our local force and decided he was going to show me by God. By the way, when you bond out with a bondsman....you don't get that money back regardless of the court outcome. The police know it, and they use that. You're going to lose a few hundred bucks, and several hours of your time, and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Because nothing EVER happens to them when they abuse their power with us proles.

So I don't trust the police as far as I can throw them. They are NOT you're friends. It's not their job to be your friend. Ask any lawyer, you keep you're mouth shut. You don't give any information to the police other than your name, SSN, date of birth, height, weight, eye color, hair color, race. Other than that, you don't tell them shit. You don't have to have an ID when they come to your home. Your name and SSI is all the info they need for the NCIC system to ID you.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:20:54 PM

kdsub

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You don't need a warrant when responding to a crime in progress...I think you are forgetting the police were under the impression they were burglars.

Lets see… someone breaks into my house… they have me at gunpoint… the police walk to the door… I scream help…” Oh sorry” the police say…” I have to find a judge to get a warrant before I can enter the house and stop him from shooting you”

Butch

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:25:31 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
If I'm in my house, and a cop walks up and asks me to step outside, you're damn right I'm going to tell him to take a hike.

But you're first going to establish that you're you and that it's your house, right? This guy didn't. He pitched the "do you know who I am" fit. That never works.

Yeah, Loki, and that's where the sticking point is going to be on this. At what point did he break out the wallet? He's probably going to say he presented ID immediately; the cops will probably say they practically had to pry it out of him. The truth will lie somewhere in between, and just exactly where it lies will determine which of the two parties is going to come away from this looking like an even bigger idiot than the other one.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:28:51 PM

kdsub

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Will not to worry now...it is all over ..President Obama has ruled...although he admits he has not heard the police side.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:32:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Yeah, Loki, and that's where the sticking point is going to be on this. At what point did he break out the wallet? He's probably going to say he presented ID immediately; the cops will probably say they practically had to pry it out of him. The truth will lie somewhere in between, and just exactly where it lies will determine which of the two parties is going to come away from this looking like an even bigger idiot than the other one.

Yep. That's true.

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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:33:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Will not to worry now...it is all over ..President Obama has ruled...although he admits he has not heard the police side.

From what I saw, he's not ruled anything. He stated he hadn't gotten all the facts that that 'overall' profiling is a fact. Sounds more neutral to me.

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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:38:26 PM

kdsub

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I agree with him...just saying

I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that [Gates case]. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact."

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:40:20 PM

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Skippy and Obama are friends, I expected no less from him when the question was asked.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:41:15 PM

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I think the longest answer to a question that the big O in the white house made was talking about this arrest. wtf?

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:41:29 PM

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Who's Skippy?

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:44:30 PM

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

You don't need a warrant when responding to a crime in progress...I think you are forgetting the police were under the impression they were burglars.

Lets see… someone breaks into my house… they have me at gunpoint… the police walk to the door… I scream help…” Oh sorry” the police say…” I have to find a judge to get a warrant before I can enter the house and stop him from shooting you”

Butch

No, that's an exception. They can enter the house if they are chasing a suspect from a crime scene, see illegal activity in plain view, have reasonable belief that someone is in danger or need of assistance ( a shout of help would indicate that need). If I come to my door and say, "I got locked out and I had to break in." they will ask me to verify my identity of course. But I don't need to come outside. What if I don't have an ID handy? People lose things, some people don't drive, etc. Well you say, "my name is John Doe, this is 101 Anywhere Lane, my SSN is 111-11-1111, my DOB is 01-01-70. They can't haul you in because you don't have an ID handy.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:44:56 PM

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Skippy s/b his nickname of Skip as in Mr. Gates, the subject of the arrest in his own home by a cop who refused to identify himself or so the currently publicized story goes.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:46:06 PM

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Obama acknowledged to questioner Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times that Gates "is a friend, so I may be a little biased." The President stepped lightly regarding any role race may have played in the situation, saying that he was not there so could not be certain, however he did note that racial profiling has "a long history in this country." Obama argued that the "Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/22/obama-on-skip-gates-arres_n_243250.html

Obama himself admits he is biased, so not nuetral at all, IMO. He's commenting on a case, he hasn't even gathered information on.
mbmbn

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Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:48:22 PM

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Sorry,dnovice, in many parts of massachusetts, we call him Skippy. his friends call him Skip gates.

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Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:50:38 PM

kdsub

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I agree ..and we are all guessing at what happened.. but from what I read he had the door open... he did not produce his ID when the officer first asked.. The cop had no choice on a burglary call but to demand he step put of the house and produce an ID...BUT once he did it should have been over...even if the professor was not being nice.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/22/2009 8:54:26 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:51:46 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I think the longest answer to a question that the big O in the white house made was talking about this arrest. wtf?

I must admit it surprised me that Obama commented before all the facts were out… it can do him no good politically.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:51:58 PM

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regarding the above advice about "the police are not your friend". That is fact. In daily life, any pleasantries you might make with a law officer is actually interfering with them and puts you in harms way. Its a hell of a way to live for them to be suspicious of everyone but that is how they are trained. It could mean their life. All encounters they have have the potential to escalate into a fatal incident for someone.

(in reply to hsimlexx)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 8:59:49 PM

kdsub

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To me

Professor was wrong to argue and not step outside an immediately produce an ID

The officer was wrong to arrest the professor after seeing his ID.

Both wrong...but was it racism as many are trying to say... The professor Included?...

We can all draw our conclusions...but I would be pissed as a police officer if I were risking my life to protect your property... then you call me racist for doing what I am required to do.

I'll bet that is what happened and to get even he dragged him to the station...stupid... just as Obama said...but understandable.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:01:51 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Sorry,dnovice, in many parts of massachusetts, we call him Skippy. his friends call him Skip gates.

I have been looking at all the books Henry Louis "Skippy" Gates has written, and his long list of accomplishments.
He has written several books on race and race relations.
I bet Skippy is going to write a book about this one!
Henry ("Skip") Louis Gates Jr.

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