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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:03:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home;

Supposedly, though, they arrested him after he threw a fit, ie 'disturbing the peace' or whatever they called it. Sounds like a cop's bruised ego to me, however it's just another incident that could have been avoided if that old familiar 'card' wasn't slapped down so quick. It's getting to the point now where the cops almost have to send a black cop to investigate a black suspect, brown cop for a brown suspect and a white cop for a white suspect.

Ahhh but that'd still be profiling, wouldn't it? They just can't win some days.

Still, I really really wish it had been a black cop. Can we call for a do over and see how Gates would have responded to a black officer?

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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:06:59 PM

kdsub

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I liked THIS ONE

And THIS ONE was really good. It is where he found out he was 50 percent white and didn't know what he should call himself.

Both very interesting and even handed

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/22/2009 9:07:32 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:09:32 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I liked THIS ONE

And THIS ONE was really good. It is where he found out he was 50 percent white and didn't know what he should call himself.

Both very interesting and even handed

Butch

Thanks Butch, this is so damn ironic though.
OF all the people for this shit to happen to?
Someone who studies, teaches and writes about race relations!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/22/2009 9:10:30 PM >

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To Each His/Her Own
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(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:10:03 PM

kdsub

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Amost forgot one of the best...HERE

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:13:43 PM

kdsub

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It is... I've always respected him... I think he was just tired and having a bad day...made a mistake because he was irritated and the police officer made a bigger one.

I just hate to see these kinds of misunderstandings automatically be classified as racial when it was most likely two men full of testosterone.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:16:45 PM

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He was most likely in a lot of pain! As someone who struggles with pain... I get locked out and have to find a way it, I am going to be pissed and hurting... bad.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:20:05 PM

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

quote:

I agree ..and we are all guessing at what happened.. but from what I read he had the door open... he did not produce his ID when the officer first asked.. The cop had no choice on a burglary call but to demand he step put of the house and produce an ID...BUT once he did it should have been over...even if the professor was not being nice.

Butch

Yeah, I don't know the facts. I'm guessing he had the door wide open, and he was pissed off. You're technically in public when you step outside the door, and I wouldn't be surprised if he did do that. Once you step out, you're at their mercy.

It's one reason I'm a big advocate for screen doors. You still have that barrier between you and the outside. I can say what I please within the confines of my own home. Like I said, I won't come outside if the police show up unexpectantly. Your home is indeed your castle.

If I get pulled over and asked to step out of the car; I roll up the windows, lock the doors, then get out with my ID, insurance, registration, and keys. That way, they can't can't be half way in the car when they say "you don't mind if I search, right?" They learn that little trick in training. It isn't a yes or no question; psychologically our brains don't know how to answer because we are stressed. When the doors are locked and the windows are up.....it forces them to ask permission to search.....which they won't get from me.

Bring on the sniffer dog

. You will get threats to tow the car, to arrest you, etc, etc. It's all bullshit tactics meant to scare people. You keep your cool and stand your ground. All the cops around here are on videotape; I dare them to arrest me and then try to explain what happened to the tape. I've always wanted to try out a civil suit against a gov't agency.

Cha-ching assholes.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/22/2009 9:21:56 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:20:15 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is... I've always respected him... I think he was just tired and having a bad day...made a mistake because he was irritated and the police officer made a bigger one.

I just hate to see these kinds of misunderstandings automatically be classified as racial when it was most likely two men full of testosterone.

Butch

It was a sad situation, but at least we will get a great book out of this.
I think he should do a screenplay and turn it into a movie.
Samuel Jackson could play Skip Gates.

Also, many people {myself included} will be reading his books and watching
these wonderful PBS specials!
I have to see the one on Abraham Lincoln.
**Many of them are available, online, awesome!**

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/22/2009 9:21:33 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:27:12 PM

kdsub

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Who would play the cop...maybe Robert Downey Jr...or Clint Eastwood with a lot of makeup...

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:33:06 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Who would play the cop...maybe Robert Downey Jr...or Clint Eastwood with a lot of makeup...

Butch

ROFL LMAO!
no, no, I want someone like Brad Pitt to play the cop.
Hell, let Angelina Jolie play the back up cop.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 9:41:39 PM

kdsub

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I got...someone with a chip on their shoulder...Colin Farrell

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 10:00:20 PM

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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I just hate to see these kinds of misunderstandings automatically be classified as racial when it was most likely two men full of testosterone.

In a thread about perceived racism, there's no need to resort to sexism.

It isn't just "men full of testosterone." Let's not forget the incident a year or two ago with the black congress*woman* who, despite not wearing her ID badge, decided she should be allowed to side-step a security checkpoint in the capitol building and threw a fit when she learned she could not.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 10:05:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Bring on the sniffer dog . You will get threats to tow the car, to arrest you, etc, etc. It's all bullshit tactics meant to scare people. You keep your cool and stand your ground. All the cops around here are on videotape; I dare them to arrest me and then try to explain what happened to the tape. I've always wanted to try out a civil suit against a gov't agency. Cha-ching assholes.

You once asked me how I react with cops (or some such...I'm paraphrasing here) in similar circumstances. Well, when I have my 'dream car' (which should be about a year or two at the most), I plan to do a bit of 'upgrading' to it. One of the 'upgrades' I was considering is something like a hidden, center-console-mounted camera, facing up and to my left. "Just in case." The switch would be of course hidden as well and I could simply flip it and be absolutely sure I 'yes Sir' and 'no Sir' my way through a traffic stop.

The difference between me and some who would plan things like that is I would not deliberately antagonize the cop, the way the pastor in South Texas does (he's on youtube repeatedly). I'd simply have it there for 'just in case.'

I don't think I would refuse a request to search, though. I mean the last thing I want in my 'dream car' is animal slobber and fur. I've seen episodes of COPS where they searched anyway and they are not 'nice' when they look for stuff. There's no reason in my mind to give them an excuse to be 'not nice' with my stuff. Besides, in all the times I've been pulled over, my casual demeanor has never once led a cop to ask me to search my car.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 7/22/2009 10:06:42 PM >

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 11:33:04 PM

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

The difference between me and some who would plan things like that is I would not deliberately antagonize the cop, the way the pastor in South Texas does (he's on youtube repeatedly). I'd simply have it there for 'just in case.'

I don't think I would refuse a request to search, though. I mean the last thing I want in my 'dream car' is animal slobber and fur. I've seen episodes of COPS where they searched anyway and they are not 'nice' when they look for stuff. There's no reason in my mind to give them an excuse to be 'not nice' with my stuff. Besides, in all the times I've been pulled over, my casual demeanor has never once led a cop to ask me to search my car.

I don't antagonize the police. I'm always polite; I'm polite to everyone. I just don't want like the idea of voluntarily giving up my 4th Amendment rights. I don't do drugs; I haven't smoked pot since I was in college. I don't drink and drive. I don't carry weapons around with me. I find it insulting when I'm asked, which has been a long time. I haven't had a traffic ticket since 2001, and that was in another city besides my lovely hometown, so no search. The last time I got pulled over was about 4 years ago, and that was by state troopers at a DWI checkpoint; again no search. I obey traffic laws now a days, because I really love my insurance rates. Once you get used to not speeding, it's not hard to drive the speed limit (I used to to do 15 MPH over the limit everywhere I went.

).

But I often have my younger brother with me when I'm out, and he's an ex-con. He's got felony convictions in Arkansas and Florida. He behaves himself now; I'm actually proud of him. He's calmed down considerably. But if we get pulled over, it's pretty much a given that we are getting pulled from the car and patted down. I'm not letting them search my truck. If they want to waste their time bringing the ONE sniffer dog in the county on duty per shift out to the stop location, have at it. It won't alert on anything in my truck. The truck is bare bones, no carpet, just vinyl matting like a truck should have. So slobber away pooch. I just don't trust them enough to allow them to root around in there while I'm sitting on the curb.

I've seen a few of those cop shows where they search anyway too, and I don't see how they get away with it. They are on camera for fuck's sake. But the majority of those shows, I see idiots allowing them to search knowing they have shit hidden in the car. FUCKING MORONS! If they'd just refuse, they have a good chance that sniffer dogs aren't avaliable to come do a search. Even if they get arrested on some old warrant or piss ant charge, they should have it locked in the glove box or a locked box. The police can't pop locks during an inventory at the impound yard. They can only inventory the contents that are unsecured in the open.

The guys on those shows that allow police into their homes, also knowing they have illegal stuff laying around amaze me as well. Again, FUCKING MORONS! The police have to have a damn good reason and a specific item(s) listed to get a warrant. They can't get a warrant on a hunch and one for unspecified contraband. It has to specify drugs, illegal firearms, documents, etc. You never let them just waltz right on in.

The guys that incriminate themselves when there is no evidence amaze me as well. The police will always give the same lines in the interrogation room or at the scene, "If you're honest with me, I can help you." HEY STUPID, NO THEY CAN'T HELP YOU! THEY WON'T HELP YOU! They will charge you, jail you, and then it's up to the prosecuting attorney and the judge. The police also like to say this bullshit, "You'll feel better if you get this off your chest." NO YOU WON'T! YOU'RE GOING TO PRISON IF YOU START BLABBING, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! When the police start asking you about criminal matters, you simply say, "Officer I don't want to say anything without the advice of an attorney." By law, it's supposed to stop right then and there. Then you ask, "Am I under arrest, or may I go?" If you're under arrest, cooperate with the booking procedure and make your phone call. But keep your mouth shut. Don't talk to the other inmates about it, don't joke around with the jailers, don't talk.....period.

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 11:49:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
I don't antagonize the police. I'm always polite; I'm polite to everyone. I just don't want like the idea of voluntarily giving up my 4th Amendment rights.

You're not really giving it up. I mean, they have a right to 'ask,' and you have the right to say 'naaah, no thanks.'

It was 'once' suggested that I was giving the cop an 'attitude' when he stopped me. (Apparently announcing your intent to exercise your rights in a civil manner is antagonistic to some.) Anyway, he actually pulled me out of the car and patted me down. It was at that point that the yap-shutting began. And when I went to court, the ticket(s) were all dismissed free and clear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
I find it insulting when I'm asked, which has been a long time.

I think if I ever *were* asked, my first response would be "Seriously?" I keep my cars almost showroom clean. A quick glance tells anyone that searching me would be a waste of time. I guess that's always been on my side.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
I've seen a few of those cop shows where they search anyway too, and I don't see how they get away with it. They are on camera for fuck's sake. But the majority of those shows, I see idiots allowing them to search knowing they have shit hidden in the car.

I think the way they get away with it is through some stipulation on charges and such. Or the 'plain-view' laws. I believe I have heard that term at least a few times. If they smell pot....see a suspicious baggie, it supposedly gives them probable cause (another reason my car is immaculately clean), which is all they need to search without consent. But yes, those who consent knowing full-well they have a few pounds in the glove box....idiots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
The guys that incriminate themselves when there is no evidence amaze me as well. The police will always give the same lines in the interrogation room or at the scene, "If you're honest with me, I can help you." HEY STUPID, NO THEY CAN'T HELP YOU! THEY WON'T HELP YOU! They will charge you, jail you, and then it's up to the prosecuting attorney and the judge. The police also like to say this bullshit, "You'll feel better if you get this off your chest." NO YOU WON'T! YOU'RE GOING TO PRISON IF YOU START BLABBING, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! When the police start asking you about criminal matters, you simply say, "Officer I don't want to say anything without the advice of an attorney." By law, it's supposed to stop right then and there. Then you ask, "Am I under arrest, or may I go?" If you're under arrest, cooperate with the booking procedure and make your phone call. But keep your mouth shut. Don't talk to the other inmates about it, don't joke around with the jailers, don't talk.....period.

Yeah, I do get a kick out of those morons who just 'come clean.' However, on that same note, I have seen more than one instance where they asked the guy to come clean and he did, because it was a small amount of pot or whatever. The cop did actually just cite the guy and let him go. But for anything other than pot.....yeah...they ain't helpin'.

I did see one funny one where the guy (having seen way too many law shows) said "Sir, I want to talk to a lawyer before I talk to you." The cop said something like "That's fine, but we don't have lawyers who drive out to traffic stops." And at that comment, the guy just bolts. I was like "dude...where the hell do you think you're going to go?"

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/23/2009 12:46:22 AM

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These are two tidbits from the CNN article:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CNN
Crowley wrote in the Cambridge police report that Gates refused to step outside to speak with him, the police report said, and when Crowley told Gates that he was investigating a possible break-in, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said. The report said Gates initially refused to show the officer identification, but eventually produced a Harvard identification card, prompting Crowley to radio for Harvard University Police. "While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me," Crowley said, according to the report."

And:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CNN
Gates said that although the ordeal had upset him, "I would do the same thing exactly again."

So it seems that not only was he belligerent toward the officer (slappin' down that ol' race card) but he would do the same thing again. I guess some people learn from the past, others let their ego overwhelm their logic and reason.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/23/2009 1:19:13 AM

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The sad and frightening thing is that as this story is reported over and over, the facts that led to the arrest are being left out/ discarded.
When I first read about this on the CNN site, Gates even stated that when arriving home his front door had been jammed so him and his driver(?) had to go around back. They then had to force the front door open from the inside. I haven't seen anything more about this since my first reading of the story.

As they struggled to get it open initially in front, I'm sure it probably looked like a burglary in progress.

Personally, I would have been glad that neighbors were watching out for me and the cops were checking to see if I really belonged in the house.

I'm a bit disturbed by our president's comments on the matter though he does admit to being biased as Gates is a friend of his. But saying the police acted stupidly? Hmmm...

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/23/2009 4:10:09 AM

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Thats CNN for you...

(in reply to sir1969)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/23/2009 5:30:31 AM

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This whole thing reminds me of an incident when I was a kid working at a movie theatre... Some folks came to the show, bringing their own bag of popcorn. The management had a policy of "no outside food or drink" in the theatres. We asked them nicely to leave the popcorn back in their car (just outside on the street) They refused, and began to get belligerent. The cops were called because the couple were threatening a couple of the employees with violence. When they showed up, the cops ended up having to arrest them for "disorderly conduct." Of course, when it got into the local papers, it read as: LOCAL THEATRE GOERS ARRESTED OVER POPCORN.

This whole thing with the Proffessor may have started out as a suspected buglary, but it ended because both the Proffessor AND the cop, acted like assholes.

(in reply to servantforuse)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/23/2009 7:01:50 AM

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I think that Obama calling this an example of racial profiling and calling the cops stupid was just plain wrong. He had no business making a comment like that.It will come back to haunt him at a later date.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

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