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Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 5:46:04 AM

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From: Tamaris
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Further possible bans on knife sales

Just why is it, when someone, in this case trading standards officers make a noise, the government just blindly follow suit and bans something that affects the majority of law abiding citizens. Now, in this case, I know a lot of specialist knife makers, who sell their products online, if this latest outrage is to happen, that will mean the end of their business, as many small crafters have not the resources to put up expensive shop fronts to sell their wares. Furthermore, craft knives, tend to be expensive, so not in the realms of the scumbag after a weapon, but still a ban would cripple them. Just like the ban on firearms did absolutely nothing to stop shootings, but curtailed the hobby shooter.

But a thing has occurred, these trading standards people that employ yougsters to buy bladed tools online, who is to say the criminal minded is savvy enough to search the net for what they want, when anything that can be found around a workshop or garden shed will do thejob.Are these trading standards people just making a problem out of nothing, even creating a problem where previously there was not until their methods of entrapment.

How far are the British people going to go in letting they whom they elect dictate and curtail one activity, one right after another.

Or has the fight gone out of Britain ?

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 7:11:27 AM

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Unfortunately, nurse refuses to acknowledge the disease but instead hopes that by treating the symptoms her negligent care might go unnoticed.

E

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 7:29:24 AM

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Excuse me but why would somebody want to buy a knife or a gun? Where is the whole point? Personally I am fairly happy that there are bans around!

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 7:58:44 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Further possible bans on knife sales

Just why is it, when someone, in this case trading standards officers make a noise, the government just blindly follow suit and bans something that affects the majority of law abiding citizens. Now, in this case, I know a lot of specialist knife makers, who sell their products online, if this latest outrage is to happen, that will mean the end of their business, as many small crafters have not the resources to put up expensive shop fronts to sell their wares. Furthermore, craft knives, tend to be expensive, so not in the realms of the scumbag after a weapon, but still a ban would cripple them. Just like the ban on firearms did absolutely nothing to stop shootings, but curtailed the hobby shooter.

But a thing has occurred, these trading standards people that employ yougsters to buy bladed tools online, who is to say the criminal minded is savvy enough to search the net for what they want, when anything that can be found around a workshop or garden shed will do thejob.Are these trading standards people just making a problem out of nothing, even creating a problem where previously there was not until their methods of entrapment.

How far are the British people going to go in letting they whom they elect dictate and curtail one activity, one right after another.

Or has the fight gone out of Britain ?

If they are crippled by not being able to sell, then that is their issue and shows a lack of sales technique.
I support banning the sale of weapons online, even mock ones particularly when people cannot be sensible enough to run their business in the way that protects themselves.

the.dark.

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 8:12:32 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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OK, from reading the article and following a couple of links.... some guy was killed with a knife at an ATM 4 years ago, and now it's illegal for teenagers in Great Britain to own a knife? And there are people who want to ban knives altogether? That's insane. Or am I missing the part of this that's supposed to make sense?

Good thing the poor fucker wasn't run over by a car, or you'd all be on horseback now.

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 8:14:57 AM

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FR

Huh ? You can watch a prison movie and learn how to kill someone with a spoon. Wanna see what I can do with a shovel ?

And some people support this ? That is the real hoot. Wait until THEY need a weapon. What's more, how about we disarm all these politician's bodyguards.

I know I have tried to clean it up a bit but all I can say is FUCK THESE MOTHERFUCKERS ! The ones who voted to ban guns in Austrailia should be forced to go outback and deal with the animals. I hope their kids get eaten by a coyote. They must hope that for us.

It seems there is an underlying goal just to make us completely harmless, and I have figured out why. They know that it is they who should be killed and they don't want to die. Fuck these assholes. We are talking about knives here.

Hey, some idiot threw a shoe at President Bush. BAN SHOES ! That's where it is headed if people don't wake up.

T

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 9:00:36 AM

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Why should people own guns ? Ask those who died in the streets of Iran after a rigged election.

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 9:08:35 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

OK, from reading the article and following a couple of links.... some guy was killed with a knife at an ATM 4 years ago, and now it's illegal for teenagers in Great Britain to own a knife? And there are people who want to ban knives altogether? That's insane. Or am I missing the part of this that's supposed to make sense?

Good thing the poor fucker wasn't run over by a car, or you'd all be on horseback now.

It's more about buying knives off the net, than banning them altogether.

the.dark.

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 9:16:43 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
And some people support this ? That is the real hoot. Wait until THEY need a weapon.

So you are saying you support selling children knives?

the.dark.

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 10:17:21 AM

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From: Cymru
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This is the "Queen's" government and laws (as are they all), so since her "monarchy" is entirely based on the historical USE of rather more nasty tools (often by the young) and butchery implements, it is just one more aspect of the inbreads' subjugation policy if you ask me. (One rule for them?)

I think my 2 foot long machete cost me £3.50 last year from a garden centre, my friend, who ALWAYS gets asked for proof of age ID in pubs, bought two immediately before me. One of these items would easily compare to an ancient Celtic shortsword. As far as I know, he has so far killed/maimed/wounded NONE with it to date.

My guess is that (as usual) the "survey" involved illegal things like the underage person lying (which would be criminal) about age deliberately (intent), deliberately,illegaly and knowingly obtaining "weapons" and being protected from punishment (One rule for them?) ... and if not then I would support the idea that vendors should be required to simply ask that and not that they be put out of business simply because her brittanic "majesty's" police are shite at dealing with real crime whilst wasting FAR too much of our money on collecting MORE "taxes" on behalf of the inbreads.

If the fucking "queen" can fuck about in public with a SWORD to hand, then why the fuck can't I? (she hasn't even got a TSI approved health and fucking safety certificate for it) (I'd LOVE to see the "risk assesment" on THAT!)

Pirate

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 10:19:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Good thing the poor fucker wasn't run over by a car, or you'd all be on horseback now.

They'll never ban cars until they can't levy duty on the fuel they use ...

Pirate

(climbing on the back of a "horse" is the domain of royalty surely? ... or at least Charles!)

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 11:00:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

OK, from reading the article and following a couple of links.... some guy was killed with a knife at an ATM 4 years ago, and now it's illegal for teenagers in Great Britain to own a knife? And there are people who want to ban knives altogether? That's insane. Or am I missing the part of this that's supposed to make sense ?

No Its you, missing the part that makes sense, you dont even show the statistics in the link you mentioned, but instead choose to cherry pick the points you wanted. You even state that knives were banned after a guy was stabbed to death at a cash machine, which isnt the case and wasnt mentioned in the link you suppossedly read.

From the link in the OP :

quote:

Home Office figures show that knives were involved in 22,151 violent offences in 2007-08.

Its illegal to sell knives to under 18s, which is what the trading standards were looking at. I dont agree knife sales online should be banned, but current laws on selling to under 18s should be enforced, on or off the internet.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 11:37:33 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

OK, from reading the article and following a couple of links.... some guy was killed with a knife at an ATM 4 years ago, and now it's illegal for teenagers in Great Britain to own a knife? And there are people who want to ban knives altogether? That's insane. Or am I missing the part of this that's supposed to make sense ?

No Its you, missing the part that makes sense, you dont even show the statistics in the link you mentioned, but instead choose to cherry pick the points you wanted. You even state that knives were banned after a guy was stabbed to death at a cash machine, which isnt the case and wasnt mentioned in the link you suppossedly read.

From the link in the OP :

quote:

Home Office figures show that knives were involved in 22,151 violent offences in 2007-08.

Cherry-picking? What am I cherry-picking? I didn't mention the statistics because without context, a single data point has no relevance to me. That statistic is meaningless, and of no use whatsoever in trying to figure out the historical inspiration for this law.

The rest of the article is equally useless, offering no historical background other than a reference to the murder of the man in 2005. From that, I inferred that there may be a connection between that incident and whatever law was apparently broken, but that's not clear, thus the question - what am I missing? What's the background, the history behind this law? I followed a couple of links from the article, and spent 20 minutes trying to find the answers, but to no avail. Maybe to those of you who live in the UK, this is more familiar and easier to understand, but for someone in the US - who is learning about this issue for the first time - it sounds like an idiotic law, especially in the absence of any explanation as to why someone somewhere decided it was necessary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Its illegal to sell knives to under 18s, which is what the trading standards were looking at. I dont agree knife sales online should be banned, but current laws on selling to under 18s should be enforced, on or off the internet.

Well, it's your country, and if that's the way you folks decide you want to run it, it's your call. I'm certainly not saying otherwise. But that doesn't mean I don't think it's ludicrous.

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 11:43:05 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

OK, from reading the article and following a couple of links.... some guy was killed with a knife at an ATM 4 years ago, and now it's illegal for teenagers in Great Britain to own a knife? And there are people who want to ban knives altogether? That's insane. Or am I missing the part of this that's supposed to make sense?

Good thing the poor fucker wasn't run over by a car, or you'd all be on horseback now.

It's more about buying knives off the net, than banning them altogether.

the.dark.

Thanks, Dark... I may have followed the wrong links, but while googling I did find some that were discussing the banning of edged weapons altogether. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any that explained the historical context of the current law.

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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 12:10:17 PM

RCdc

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Oh, there is always a minority who want to try and ban something.

The problem is that children are gaining access to knives with no prior knowledge, adult help or education.

I will admit it. I was a teenage knife carrier.
I lived in the east end. It's something you just have. My cousins did, my friends did also. But there was also a culture of respect and teaching. It wasn't hidden that you had one, because it wasn't 'wrong'.
The minute you make it wrong, it becomes the next in thing.

I am not against children holding weapons. I am against them gaining them without education or parental knowledge. Internet sales of such items suck.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 1:21:07 PM

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Okay, I read the article. A 15 year old bought knives online with HIS DEBIT CARD. Why in the hell does a 15 year old have a debit card? How exactly are the knife sellers supposed to know he is 15 years old? If I were a knife seller online, I'd assume someone with a debit card is an adult.

By the way, why is it illegal for a kid to buy a knife? I carried a pocket knife around with me from the time I was around 10 years old onward. All young boys where I grew up carried knives; our fathers and grandfathers gave them to us. They are handy tools to have. I still don't leave the house without my pocket knife.

In the photo, the kid is holding up a machete. Well guess what? I lived in a rural area as a kid, and we had those and hatchets too on a camping trip. My buddies and I camped out unsupervised several times a month from the time I was 12 onward. We carried tools like machetes and.....get ready to be shocked.......RIFLES! Yes, we would take our .22's along for plinking at cans and during season for hunting squirrels and rabbits.....UNSUPERVISED! We never killed any human being. Shocking isn't it?

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 1:26:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Excuse me but why would somebody want to buy a knife or a gun? Where is the whole point? Personally I am fairly happy that there are bans around!

Is this a serious question or sarcasm?

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 1:46:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
In the photo, the kid is holding up a machete.

Which is a farkin useful TOOL.

The "offensive weapon" is only such if "intent" is established ... I'm very useful with one of these devices, they are VERY useful bushcraft tools ... I buy nearly all of my outdoor equipment online, yet again MY freedom is under danger of being trampled over in favour of bullshit, opressive kneejerk "laws" resulting from the CRAP "success" rates of the police service who are too busy making "easy pinches" of partygoers and minor motoring offenders rather than "nicking" "wronguns".

FTR : A weapon is not always obvious, with intent, it is possible to kill EASILY with ones bare hands ... should we all be amputated next ???

Pirate

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 2:14:04 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Oh, there is always a minority who want to try and ban something.

The problem is that children are gaining access to knives with no prior knowledge, adult help or education.

I will admit it. I was a teenage knife carrier.
I lived in the east end. It's something you just have. My cousins did, my friends did also. But there was also a culture of respect and teaching. It wasn't hidden that you had one, because it wasn't 'wrong'.
The minute you make it wrong, it becomes the next in thing.

I am not against children holding weapons. I am against them gaining them without education or parental knowledge. Internet sales of such items suck.

the.dark.

Yeah, I can't disagree with your reasoning. I've been thinking about this a lot today, and one of the things that keeps coming to mind for me is that I grew up in a time when children had what were known as "parents." These "parents" were adults who took an actual interest in what their children were up to, made sure the children were taught how to act responsibly and held the children accountable for their actions. Like you and Slaveboy, I've been carrying a knife since i was a relatively small child. I have one in my pocket now; the only time I don't carry it is when I'm flying on a commercial airliner. It's a handy tool, and it's not uncommon for me to use it several times a day for one thing or another.

I recognize that we live in a different time now, and that these "parents" I mentioned are not as common a life form as they were when i was a child. But at the same time, the part that goes against the grain for me is the same point the Pirate and a couple others make - it looks and smells like another knee-jerk substitute for proper parenting and competent policing, which will impinge on the rights of law-abiding people without having much actual impact on the problem it's supposedly intended to solve. Your country effectively banned guns in order to keep people from being shot, and now the powers that be are starting to grasp that people are still stabbing each other. So now knives are being restricted. Nobody ever seems to grasp that people have been killing each other for as long as there've been people, and they will continue to kill each other until there's nobody left to kill. It's just the way it is. It doesn't matter what you ban or restrict, it doesn't do a thing to address the fundamental problem, which is that people kill each other. You can't ban or restrict every single item that people use to do it; you just have to accept that that's the way it is - people are going to keep right on killing each other, and there's really nothing we can do but live with it.

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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

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RE: Nanny state is at it again ! - 7/24/2009 2:43:29 PM

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"Nanny state is at it again" ... gosh I could rumble about that for days and love that title ... but leave you in peace here and shut up

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