RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President?

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 12:13:04 PM

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There are lots smarter folks than you or me - and most of them are not in government OR the present health care industry. On the other hand, lots of folks (like me) already have a great plan, called medicare (even with its fraud) and backed up by retirement health plan. I don't have the answers, I just don't feel that the hurriedly hatched plan in the works is going to be the right one.

< Message edited by mrbob726 -- 8/2/2009 12:15:25 PM >

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 12:13:58 PM

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_fact_check

As opposed to finding editorials that fit one's opinion...perhaps a few facts?

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 12:16:46 PM

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So how long do we wait?

Again, it's not like people have only just started thinking about this!

The reality is that something politically possible, and hence flawed, is all we can do. That will be true next year, too--and the year after that, and the years after that.

Congress all the time passes legislation they tinker with for years after.

(in reply to mrbob726)

RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 12:25:53 PM

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I don't dispute the facts in your links - we all know that those with agendas distort the facts to meet their own opinions. I just feel that perhaps the President and the dems in congress are more interested in getting something - anything - done now, than really approaching the problem with innovation and new insight. True, it will look good on their resumes if they get "something" done now, but sometimes "anything" now is not necesarily better than the "right thing" a year or two down the road.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 12:29:12 PM

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quote:

Congress all the time passes legislation they tinker with for years after.

Maybe that's why we're in the shape we're in now - always time to "fix", never time to "do it right" the first time.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 12:44:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maverick481

We have the best healthcare in the world and lower mortality rates for most cancers and other diseases than the rest of the world, but hey. Let's just throw that out the window!

Why do people in other countries not want us to pass this? Because they come here to get good healthcare.

Huh?

"The U.S. ranks 42nd in the world for low infant mortality [25] 46th in life expectancy, between Cyprus and Denmark,[26] and 37th in health system performance, between Costa Rica and Slovenia.[27" (From the Wikipedia article below cited by Sanity.)

I was corrected this morning so I now know that only 37 other nations in the world provide better health care than the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 8/2/2009 12:55:00 PM >

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 1:16:22 PM

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Also from Wiki:

quote:

The Canadian health care system is often compared to the US system. The US system spends the most in the world per capita, and was ranked 37th in the world by the World Health Organization in 2000, while Canada's health system was ranked 30th. The WHO ranking has been criticized by some for its choice of ranking criteria and statistical methods, and the WHO is currently revising its methodology and withholding new rankings until the issues are addressed.

Just throwing statistics around can be very misleading, and I suspect that in this case it is, and purposely so. Take the longevity claim, for example. How do America and Canada compare on illegal immigrant populations, or on large ghetto populations wherein many may live shorter lives for reasons other than the quality of health care in each repective country?

< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/2/2009 1:17:34 PM >

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 1:24:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Also from Wiki:

quote:

The Canadian health care system is often compared to the US system. The US system spends the most in the world per capita, and was ranked 37th in the world by the World Health Organization in 2000, while Canada's health system was ranked 30th. The WHO ranking has been criticized by some for its choice of ranking criteria and statistical methods, and the WHO is currently revising its methodology and withholding new rankings until the issues are addressed.

Just throwing statistics around can be very misleading, and I suspect that in this case it is, and purposely so. Take the longevity claim, for example. How do America and Canada compare on illegal immigrant populations, or on large ghetto populations wherein many may live shorter lives for reasons other than the quality of health care in each repective country?

I used that article because you cited it. Otherwise citing an article is just a liberal conspiracy by your thinking. If you have problems with it do not cite it. I think it is called "impeaching your own witness."

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 1:39:54 PM

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You're very entertaining! When have I ever suggested that citing an article was a "liberal conspiracy".

I used that Wiki link to establish what single payer meant, which their defenition was pretty much right. That doesn't mean I endorse everything that's on the wiki website...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

I used that article because you cited it. Otherwise citing an article is just a liberal conspiracy by your thinking. If you have problems with it do not cite it. I think it is called "impeaching your own witness."

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 1:48:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slutslave4u

Do I agree with the current health care in place, no
Do I agree with what Obama is proposing/pushing so hard for a fast acceptance on us all, no.
But then again I did not vote for the man, nor do I like anything that he has to say or has done, entitled as I am, is just my opinion.
Do I know what the answer then is or should be, no....I dont think anyone does....I just do not think this is it......

You dont have the answers, yet, criticize those who are at least tryinng. you didnt vote for the man, and you sure wont support his efforts in any way at all. you are entitled to your opinion, as i am mine. if you arent part of the solution, you are part of the problem. the issue is more than a few months old. finally we got someone in office with enough gumption to actually try. and i think thats more of the problem than anything else.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 1:50:57 PM

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How about steering this thread back on topic.

Is this what America voted for... at least, those who were allowed to vote?

quote:

Career lawyers overruled on voting case

Black Panthers had wielded weapons, blocked polls

Justice Department political appointees overruled career lawyers and ended a civil complaint accusing three members of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense of wielding a nightstick and intimidating voters at a Philadelphia polling place last Election Day, according to documents and interviews.

The incident - which gained national attention when it was captured on videotape and distributed on YouTube - had prompted the government to sue the men, saying they violated the 1965 Voting Rights Act by scaring would-be voters with the weapon, racial slurs and military-style uniforms...

Career lawyers pursued the case for months, including obtaining an affidavit from a prominent 1960s civil rights activist who witnessed the confrontation and described it as "the most blatant form of voter intimidation" that he had seen, even during the voting rights crisis in Mississippi a half-century ago.

(Full article here).

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 1:53:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbob726

There are lots smarter folks than you or me - and most of them are not in government OR the present health care industry. On the other hand, lots of folks (like me) already have a great plan, called medicare (even with its fraud) and backed up by retirement health plan. I don't have the answers, I just don't feel that the hurriedly hatched plan in the works is going to be the right one.

and you are part of the problem as well. "oh my, dont mess with what i got" well, i hope they do mess with it. its fraught with fraud... and it desperately needs an overhaul.. which is what the Blue Dogs were pushing for. again, saying you dont have the answers but you "dont feel" this is the solution.... part of the problem. nothing so far that has been pushed to the table has worked. but, if the party you people actually liked were to have promoted this, it would be acceptable.

people are actually sick of being told to wait. people are plain sick. we dont have medicare to fall back on, and we probably never will. so sit back and collect your checks, and enjoy your insurance.

America is tired of being raped and told to like it.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mrbob726)

RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 1:55:49 PM

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quote:

DOCTOR'S ORDERS
Obamacare called 'euthanasia bill'
Critic: 'Reflects regime worse than China's one-child policy'

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

How about steering this thread back on topic.

Is this what America voted for... at least, those who were allowed to vote?

quote:

Career lawyers overruled on voting case

Black Panthers had wielded weapons, blocked polls

Justice Department political appointees overruled career lawyers and ended a civil complaint accusing three members of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense of wielding a nightstick and intimidating voters at a Philadelphia polling place last Election Day, according to documents and interviews.

The incident - which gained national attention when it was captured on videotape and distributed on YouTube - had prompted the government to sue the men, saying they violated the 1965 Voting Rights Act by scaring would-be voters with the weapon, racial slurs and military-style uniforms...

Career lawyers pursued the case for months, including obtaining an affidavit from a prominent 1960s civil rights activist who witnessed the confrontation and described it as "the most blatant form of voter intimidation" that he had seen, even during the voting rights crisis in Mississippi a half-century ago.

(Full article here).

We have been on thread, look at the initial post again

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 2:00:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You're very entertaining! When have I ever suggested that citing an article was a "liberal conspiracy".

I used that Wiki link to establish what single payer meant, which their defenition was pretty much right. That doesn't mean I endorse everything that's on the wiki website...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

I used that article because you cited it. Otherwise citing an article is just a liberal conspiracy by your thinking. If you have problems with it do not cite it. I think it is called "impeaching your own witness."

You cited a specific article thereby lending your imprimatur to it for accuracy. Now you are trying to impeach your own witness? I saw no disclaimer. Oh well.

The funny thing will be if the new definition from WHO places the US at 50th. I bet you never thought of that revolting development.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 2:10:50 PM

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Perhaps you're correct. Maybe Obama's Black Panther scandal deserves its own thread... but still - because of the title of this thread, it seems very fitting here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

How about steering this thread back on topic.

Is this what America voted for... at least, those who were allowed to vote?

quote:

Career lawyers overruled on voting case

Black Panthers had wielded weapons, blocked polls

Justice Department political appointees overruled career lawyers and ended a civil complaint accusing three members of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense of wielding a nightstick and intimidating voters at a Philadelphia polling place last Election Day, according to documents and interviews.

The incident - which gained national attention when it was captured on videotape and distributed on YouTube - had prompted the government to sue the men, saying they violated the 1965 Voting Rights Act by scaring would-be voters with the weapon, racial slurs and military-style uniforms...

Career lawyers pursued the case for months, including obtaining an affidavit from a prominent 1960s civil rights activist who witnessed the confrontation and described it as "the most blatant form of voter intimidation" that he had seen, even during the voting rights crisis in Mississippi a half-century ago.

(Full article here).

We have been on thread, look at the initial post again

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 2:58:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maverick481

Do you noot read that 77% of Americans DO NOT WANT socialized healthcare! I don't!

We have the best healthcare in the world and lower mortality rates for most cancers and other diseases than the rest of the world, but hey. Let's just throw that out the window!

Why do people in other countries not want us to pass this? Because they come here to get good healthcare.

Beyond your claim that youdon't want socialized health care every other claim in this post is wrong.

(in reply to Maverick481)

RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 3:19:40 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maverick481

Do you noot read that 77% of Americans DO NOT WANT socialized healthcare! I don't!

We have the best healthcare in the world and lower mortality rates for most cancers and other diseases than the rest of the world, but hey. Let's just throw that out the window!

Why do people in other countries not want us to pass this? Because they come here to get good healthcare.

Beyond your claim that youdon't want socialized health care every other claim in this post is wrong.

That's the trouble with getting all your information from talk radio shows.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 3:20:45 PM

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59% say the government should provide national health care including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical expenses.... (Feb 2009)

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/02/nytcbs_poll_shows_people_love_socialized_medicine.php

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121664/Majority-Favors-Healthcare-Reform-This-Year.aspx

and a very interesting poll conducted just this past week

http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 4:05:11 PM

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Hi tazzy, If it is such a good bill why don't the democrats just vote on it and make it law. They have Obama and are veto proof in both houses of congress. The republicans cannot stop it..

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/2/2009 4:10:21 PM

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this is the part that confuses me.... first, it had to pass out of committee... which i understand that was held up because some of the Blue Dogs wanted more added to the bill, they felt it didnt go far enough.. so... that has now happened.

now what? unless im mistaken, it goes before the full house and senate for voting. its not as simple as saying... vote... there are steps to this process.

How a Bill becomes a Law

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 8/2/2009 4:13:05 PM >

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

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