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ORIGINAL: Esinn

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol

all i know is that i find this rather amusing. my belief is my belief, and it requires no one's understanding, no one's acceptance, no one's approval.. other than my own. see how truly simple it is?

That is what racists say.

A movie/documentary which I believe you can find on youtube is relevant, "Hitler: Rise To Power(2003)"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtutF36Rn5I (The link is a strange home made trailer I found).

By the time his beliefs were challenged it was obviously not too late as they were crushed.  However, much damage was done.

The fact is irrational beliefs lead to irrational actions.  This is so well understood by modern psychology that it is not out of line to be called a law.

Personal irrational beliefs which left unchallenged have lead to oppression and slaughter of tens of millions

I do not see why people are so afraid to intelligently and rationally examine their core beliefs.  The only reason such examination is not made is because it would demonstrate they are irrational - no one likes to feel irrational.  I will let you chime in with the last word as I am done with this discussion it is off topic.  You only started so you could take a jab or two - so may have the last, princessTT..  If you wish to discuss personal belief in another thread I think it would be a meaningful discussion.

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ORIGINAL: Louve00

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ORIGINAL: Esinn


I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads.

Based on reading some of your posts, I think you're intelligent enough to understand what God is to some people.  Its if you're willing to truly understand what that meaning is to them, and for them to understand what it/He does or doesn't mean to you, that will bring about an intelligent conversation.

Some think people that believe, believe in make-believe, imagined things somewhere "up there", and dismiss it as that.  I think as potent as the thought of believing can be to some, it can be the same for non-believers.  I believe this....  I believe in the power of belief.  I believe if you believe in a power, or a thing, or a thought strong enough your energy, your momentum, your mind will and can be soothed by it.  If you have enough faith in a thing in the name of anything...God, yourself, your spouse, your body, an energy that floats around that we feed off of, whatever.  I believe if you believe in it, you will pull your power from it.  Some call that mind over matter.  But I believe thats what faith is based on.  You can call it God, Allah, Jehovah, whatever, but what you expect from that personal belief (to me) would be the bigger question.  If that belief gives you the comfort, guts, fortitude or whatever it is that enables you to go on, than that (I would think) is a good belief. 

As far as defining God goes, well....I would bet you could ask that question to a whole bunch of different people and get different answers, depending on who or where you were asking the question.  I also believe all those different answers would be neither right or wrong nor all right and wrong.  I think different people believe in different things.  Some for the same reasons, some for different reasons.  But, whats most important to remember is, they are beliefs.

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ORIGINAL: Esinn

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ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

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ORIGINAL: Esinn

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ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.

LOL?  You are kidding right?

Okay.  What's so funny?  Go ahead.  Be an asshole.  The reason I said "in my mind anyway" is because I know there are gazillions of people who disagree with me & I also know that's their right.  I don't laugh at you and ask if you're kidding.  You ASKED for definitions of God, and that was mine.  If you don't like it, that's fine, but you don't have to be rude and insulting about it.  My definiton works fine for me and that's what matters.  As long as anyone's definition works for them, that's what really matters.  As a matter of fact, I think you are a troll,  here to irritate the shit outta people on purpose.  No more & no less.  So, with that in mind, go have an aerial sexual experience with a mobile perforated pastry.  Think about that one for awhile & if you can't figure it out, just ask.  I will me mooooore than happy to tell you what it means. 

The fact I want to look at intelligently or question it is not justification to suggest I am a troll or hateful. 

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ORIGINAL: Esinn

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ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.

LOL?  You are kidding right?

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ORIGINAL: Esinn

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. want to upset people? say God or Jesus or Allah or any other related "being"

what is it about religion that scares so many people? ot reduces most to belittling, petty people who can seem to do nothing but try and rip apart something that have no clue about. just a hint... no matter what definition you rip apart, no matter how you try and demoralize people for their belief... you cant destroy a belief.

I am not attempting to rip apart or demoralize anyone.  That seems like you intend to upset me.  I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads.

What was the purpose of you replying here?  How does religion scaring people relate to the OP?  The only people I know who are truly afraid of religion are theists.

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ORIGINAL: Esinn


A subjective creation of the internal mind which is powerless to have external force beyond the actions of the individual believer. - god

I presented the laws of logic.  You did not to debate them.  This seems to imply you accept them.  Yet, you desire to debate the validity of a belief which one can not define or which has logical inconsistencies or contradictions . This seems to suggest you only choose to be logical when it can prove or justify what you are saying.
--It is like someone who never breaks the law.  They just speed when they need to get somewhere quickly. 

Beliefs are often wrong.  Beliefs are often flawed, in fact so often flawed there is a term for it - a fallacy.  Beliefs are often based upon incorrect thinking, in fact so frequently there is a entire 'school' of psychology dedicated to it -Cognitive Behavior Therapy(CBT).

The fact that because a belief makes you feel this should be viewed as acceptance it is true or that is it is ok is wrong.
--Many people have the belief they will not get into a car wreck.  The reason the majority of such car wrecks happen is because they were accidents(careless or not is another topic).
  --These people with these beliefs are able to justify not carrying car insurance,         it will not happen to me I am careful - so why bother..  You and I are forced to pay for it.

That is an analogy - one of hundreds that crossed my mind.  It is not intended to be taken literally or as an absolute.  Rather draw attention to the danger of false belief which give one: guts, power, pride or purpose.

-E

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Atheist Becomes Theist


5 Proofs for the Existence of God

Just some links i found interesting.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. i said it was interesting.. i didnt say i believed it! i also notice you dont mention the other... no matter.

Belief and faith cannot be changed based merely upon a discussion/debate. Psychologists cannot agree on the topic.. Courts hate ruling on it... Scientists cant prove or disprove it... even Religious leaders cant agree... and you want to debate?

lol

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Belief and faith cannot be changed based merely upon a discussion/debate.

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ORIGINAL: Louve00

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ORIGINAL: Esinn


A subjective creation of the internal mind which is powerless to have external force beyond the actions of the individual believer. - god

I presented the laws of logic.  You did not to debate them.  This seems to imply you accept them.  Yet, you desire to debate the validity of a belief which one can not define or which has logical inconsistencies or contradictions . This seems to suggest you only choose to be logical when it can prove or justify what you are saying.
--It is like someone who never breaks the law.  They just speed when they need to get somewhere quickly. 

Beliefs are often wrong.  Beliefs are often flawed, in fact so often flawed there is a term for it - a fallacy.  Beliefs are often based upon incorrect thinking, in fact so frequently there is a entire 'school' of psychology dedicated to it -Cognitive Behavior Therapy(CBT).

The fact that because a belief makes you feel this should be viewed as acceptance it is true or that is it is ok is wrong.
--Many people have the belief they will not get into a car wreck.  The reason the majority of such car wrecks happen is because they were accidents(careless or not is another topic).
--These people with these beliefs are able to justify not carrying car insurance,         it will not happen to me I am careful - so why bother..  You and I are forced to pay for it.

That is an analogy - one of hundreds that crossed my mind.  It is not intended to be taken literally or as an absolute.  Rather draw attention to the danger of false belief which give one: guts, power, pride or purpose.

-E

First, I didn't realize you were presenting the "laws of logic".  You were claiming to seek the definition of God, to which I still say that definition will vary from individual to individual.  If you don't have the tolerance to accept that, then its likely you will always feel you are right and everyone else is wrong and as a result, will always be waiting for people to catch up with you.  As long as you realize you will have a long wait, then we're both happy.   It's one thing to believe or ask what belief is by the way of "God".  It's a whole other thing to dispute anyone's answer to that, though.

I answered in a way that proved me neither right or wrong because as I said, there really IS no right or wrong when it comes to religious or political beliefs.  They are beliefs.  Beliefs held by each and every individual for either same or different reasons.  I can understand that and accept it.

Can you?

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ORIGINAL: DavanKael

ORIGINAL: Esinn
I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads.


Actually, I don't think you are based on the responses you've given some respondents.  While they've stated their beliefs, you've taken stabs at people/been condescending to those who don't go in the direction you desire.  That really doesn't make for open dialogue, it just makes people think that you're a jerk/that you have an axe to grind/etc. 
Davan
(Who firmly believes that one can be godless and discuss god with polite people who believe in god without being rude)

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Esinn, wtf, you ask people what they think "GOD" is then when they answer you you tell them they're wrong?
I didn't know there were "right" and "wrong" answers to that question.
Boy, I'm glad I'm not an "intellectual."

And why *ANYONE* would think the big guy wears "white robes" and "sandals" is just silly!
I love those people who believe in that "rapture" stuff. "Hey, when you get raptured can I have your Cadillac?"

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ORIGINAL: brispslave

God is the same as Santa Claus, except no one tells you it's all bullshit when you turn 8...sadly you have to work it out for yourself, which many people fail to do.