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RE: Define God - 8/9/2009 11:01:46 AM

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Cheeky bugger

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RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 12:02:51 AM

Brain

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I understand metaphors. The problem is some people believe the Bible to be literally true. I believe they're evangelicals. And that can be dangerous when you start talking about Bible prophecies, and the end of the world when Jesus returns, and there is violence and war in the Middle East.

You know, you've seen those nuts I am sure on TV in the middle of the night selling Bibles and asking you to call the phone number, that man with the grey hair and the blonde lady.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The roots of George W. Bush's spirituality, his language of God and faith, his views on God and government, and his impact on evangelicals.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/1981/the-jesus-factor/

Frontline’s ”The Jesus Factor” made me fucking sick. I am, at this late hour, still reeling, despite anticipating every single thing that was said. I know, for example, that George W. Bush is the most overtly religious President in the history of the United States, and I am quite familiar with his born-again status, the result of a lifetime of drinking, snorting, reckless driving, and losing other people’s money in shady oil schemes. I also know that Bush believes Jesus was a political philosopher, and that his relationship with him is apparently sufficient to guide what officially must always remain a secular nation. But there was something nauseating about seeing all of these things in one place; sort of a “greatest hits” collection of everything loathsome about our current Commander-in-Chief. Frame after frame, quote after quote, speech after speech, confirmed Bush’s status as the most reprehensible human being alive. Yes, the most. You fucking heard me. He’s the worst because he’s shredding the spirit of our country; taking enormous dumps on the Constitution because he once was lost and now has a friend to keep him away from the Jack Daniels. Other nations, with far more repressive and violent leaders, make no pretense of liberty, as there is no system of laws in place to prevent the establishment of religion or taxpayer support of religious institutions. In these admittedly backwater pits of despair, the church is the state, and no one has the history, philosophy, or political sophistication to alter that fact. Seeing how destructive such an incestuous relationship always is — and how religion has never done anyone a bit of good that something far less illogical could also have achieved — we have the empirical data, as well as centuries of rock-solid legal principles, to guide us. Knowing all of this, Bush still chooses Jesus. Not for himself alone, but for all of us. That’s not only stupid, it’s criminal.

(in reply to stella41b)

RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 6:59:14 AM

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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I understand metaphors. The problem is some people believe the Bible to be literally true. I believe they're evangelicals. And that can be dangerous when you start talking about Bible prophecies, and the end of the world when Jesus returns, and there is violence and war in the Middle East.

You know, you've seen those nuts I am sure on TV in the middle of the night selling Bibles and asking you to call the phone number, that man with the grey hair and the blonde lady.

Now here I'm inclined to agree with you. Thank you for responding and I see now more of where you are coming from.

I was declared a Bible prophet at the age of 16 by the Elim Pentecostal Church after getting into a heated debate over the Book of Revelations. So ended my own Christianity because it raised and left too many unanswered questions and I wanted knowledge as opposed to blind faith and assumptions.

This is where I worked out that much of organized mass religion has the objective of mind control by playing on our innermost fears, such as the fear of death. Now I accept that some people appear to need this, but there are others who don't and indeed many Christians who are intelligent enough not to cling to what is said and written literally, but who understand the underlying messages and are actively practising Christian ethics in their lives.

But yes Brain, I see your point here and I fully agree with you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The roots of George W. Bush's spirituality, his language of God and faith, his views on God and government, and his impact on evangelicals.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/1981/the-jesus-factor/

Frontline’s ”The Jesus Factor” made me fucking sick. I am, at this late hour, still reeling, despite anticipating every single thing that was said. I know, for example, that George W. Bush is the most overtly religious President in the history of the United States, and I am quite familiar with his born-again status, the result of a lifetime of drinking, snorting, reckless driving, and losing other people’s money in shady oil schemes. I also know that Bush believes Jesus was a political philosopher, and that his relationship with him is apparently sufficient to guide what officially must always remain a secular nation. But there was something nauseating about seeing all of these things in one place; sort of a “greatest hits” collection of everything loathsome about our current Commander-in-Chief. Frame after frame, quote after quote, speech after speech, confirmed Bush’s status as the most reprehensible human being alive. Yes, the most. You fucking heard me. He’s the worst because he’s shredding the spirit of our country; taking enormous dumps on the Constitution because he once was lost and now has a friend to keep him away from the Jack Daniels. Other nations, with far more repressive and violent leaders, make no pretense of liberty, as there is no system of laws in place to prevent the establishment of religion or taxpayer support of religious institutions. In these admittedly backwater pits of despair, the church is the state, and no one has the history, philosophy, or political sophistication to alter that fact. Seeing how destructive such an incestuous relationship always is — and how religion has never done anyone a bit of good that something far less illogical could also have achieved — we have the empirical data, as well as centuries of rock-solid legal principles, to guide us. Knowing all of this, Bush still chooses Jesus. Not for himself alone, but for all of us. That’s not only stupid, it’s criminal.

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(in reply to Brain)

RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 11:59:56 AM

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God cannot be defined. God is.

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RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 9:11:11 PM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

What would make me happy is irrelevant Esinn you asked a question and I gave you the answer nothing more. To call someone a liar is a statement that unless backed up by evidence is inherently flawed. You can disgree certainly and even provide examples that support your own view of events, trends, and opinions but the label of liar is not one that can be accorded to an individual with any certainty and subsequent validation unless one is aquainted with proof positive that it is so. In this case one could posit the view that atheists comprise more than fifty percent of the scientific community and lend some credence to this view with the article you provided. However as you yourself recognise this is not definitive and so calling this person a liar is, as you yourself imply, an unjustifiable statement that requires recitude. Personally I think it is quite possible/probable that atheism constitutes the belief of the majority of scientists however the evidence available to me in one form or another is enough only to support this conclusion not vindicate it Esinn.

The one I provided(the poll/survey) was not the what the 'case' is I hinge upon.

The fact you are only aware of the one resource I provided you with is really not my problem. If you are interested in learning ya self up on the topic - you may.

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RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 9:16:34 PM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

God cannot be defined. God is.

Go take some time to read this thread.

What is "is"? Can I say, "I is". Cow is? Slut is? Idiot is?

I feel like I back in kindiegarten again.

If you want to have an intelligent conversation you need to speak like an adult.

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RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 9:25:21 PM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Obviously there isn't any such thing as God other than these immutable laws Einstein talks about, but I don't think that's a real God as to being somebody with a conscience making decisions and having a divine plan.

An abstract truth is always relative to individual perception. The only universal truth is one concerning something concrete, i.e. made of matter.

god is a contradiction.

god is concretely rooted into the human imagination.

< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/10/2009 9:27:11 PM >

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RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 10:04:29 PM

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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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God is the spearhead of the Light. It is His spot. He is an individual who loves His own existence. No one can overtake Him or be ahead of Him, no matter what else we are all manifested somewhere around Him but we arent Him. He can and does learn from us and He has a process as do we. I think there are parts of God. The Mother, Body and Heart. He needs all His parts and His parts need Him. If everything goes irredeemably down, He will be the last to go.

He is not some perfect thing, He can be questioned and Has as many forms and abilities to express to us all, as there are individuals. He has a history. I think God is super cool. If someone doesnt believe in Him, in fact they may not believe in all the crap that has presented itself as God, like Guilt for example.

There is too much to understand about God to sum it all up in a small post. I do believe He is in us and around us and so complex and simple.

Some atheists are more conscious and truly connected than some folks who spout off how religious etc. they are.

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(in reply to Esinn)

RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 11:08:11 PM

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The fact that you have not stated your case in it's entirety Esinn is irrelevant as you have already noted that it is an indefinable quality. Therefore to call someone a liar is an inherently flawed act. Attempting to cast aspersions on my knowledge or lack thereof simply deflects from the matter. I am aware as are you that there is no evidence we can cite that more than fifty percent of scientists are atheists. There is only studies that can back up the claim that you believe it is so.

(in reply to heartcream)

RE: Define God - 8/10/2009 11:22:28 PM

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I'm off to work now Esinn I shall catch up with you later.

(in reply to Starbuck09)

RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 3:04:14 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

God cannot be defined. God is.

Go take some time to read this thread.

What is "is"? Can I say, "I is". Cow is? Slut is? Idiot is?

I feel like I back in kindiegarten again.

If you want to have an intelligent conversation you need to speak like an adult.

That is a rude response, Esinn.

(in reply to Esinn)

RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 7:39:17 AM

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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Obviously there isn't any such thing as God other than these immutable laws Einstein talks about, but I don't think that's a real God as to being somebody with a conscience making decisions and having a divine plan.

An abstract truth is always relative to individual perception. The only universal truth is one concerning something concrete, i.e. made of matter.

god is a contradiction.

god is concretely rooted into the human imagination.

Exactly. Your perception, your opinion. Still doesn't make it a fact though.

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(in reply to Esinn)

RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 10:22:53 AM

Brain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

God is the spearhead of the Light. It is His spot. He is an individual who loves His own existence. No one can overtake Him or be ahead of Him, no matter what else we are all manifested somewhere around Him but we arent Him. He can and does learn from us and He has a process as do we. I think there are parts of God. The Mother, Body and Heart. He needs all His parts and His parts need Him. If everything goes irredeemably down, He will be the last to go.

He is not some perfect thing, He can be questioned and Has as many forms and abilities to express to us all, as there are individuals. He has a history. I think God is super cool. If someone doesnt believe in Him, in fact they may not believe in all the crap that has presented itself as God, like Guilt for example.

There is too much to understand about God to sum it all up in a small post. I do believe He is in us and around us and so complex and simple.

Some atheists are more conscious and truly connected than some folks who spout off how religious etc. they are.

God does not exist and is nothing but a fantasy in your mind just like Santa Claus is for a child. You have been brainwashed by religion and you need to be de-programmed.

You cannot explain something that doesn't exist and you cannot prove something exists that does not. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that God exists and that is because he does not, or it does not exist, except in some fantasy world in people's brains.

I think you need to study more science like evolutionary biology and physics and astronomy and stop being so naïve in believing 2000 year old bullshit when we did not have science.

(in reply to heartcream)

RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 10:42:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

You have been brainwashed by religion and you need to be de-programmed.

See...that "need" word in there. Not good. Not in line with basic ethical principles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think you need to study more science like evolutionary biology and physics and astronomy and stop being so naïve in believing 2000 year old bullshit when we did not have science.

If the person wants to have a realistic and proper materialistic understanding of the world they live in, yes. People don't "need" to choose that path, though (and if we're going to add neurobiology and bio-psychology to the list of things to become aware of, then we should understand it may be erroneous to attempt to amputate some people from their faith).

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 8/11/2009 10:47:47 AM >

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RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 10:47:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

God cannot be defined.

Yet is by every individual who espouses him/her/it into their lives.

Certainly one doing so must be able to define the characteristics and facets of a being they are entering into such an intimate relationship with, no?

We see no end to silly thread topics here about whether subs/slaves should just automatically serve the first (or any) D-type that comes along as if judgment of character isn't something inherently important to entering into a D/s relationship. Should this type of relationship be any different?

And being able to have one's own interpretation of what those definite characteristics are is beneficial and one of the biggest reasons why a la carte "spirituality" is so popular today (versus ye olde "religiousness").

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 8/11/2009 10:48:37 AM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to daintydimples)

RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 1:44:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

God is the spearhead of the Light. It is His spot. He is an individual who loves His own existence. No one can overtake Him or be ahead of Him, no matter what else we are all manifested somewhere around Him but we arent Him. He can and does learn from us and He has a process as do we. I think there are parts of God. The Mother, Body and Heart. He needs all His parts and His parts need Him. If everything goes irredeemably down, He will be the last to go.

He is not some perfect thing, He can be questioned and Has as many forms and abilities to express to us all, as there are individuals. He has a history. I think God is super cool. If someone doesnt believe in Him, in fact they may not believe in all the crap that has presented itself as God, like Guilt for example.

There is too much to understand about God to sum it all up in a small post. I do believe He is in us and around us and so complex and simple.

Some atheists are more conscious and truly connected than some folks who spout off how religious etc. they are.

God does not exist and is nothing but a fantasy in your mind just like Santa Claus is for a child. You have been brainwashed by religion and you need to be de-programmed.

You cannot explain something that doesn't exist and you cannot prove something exists that does not. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that God exists and that is because he does not, or it does not exist, except in some fantasy world in people's brains.

I think you need to study more science like evolutionary biology and physics and astronomy and stop being so naïve in believing 2000 year old bullshit when we did not have science.

As much as you wish to rant and rave against the existence of god... you perhaps should be thanking your lucky stars that religion does exist.

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RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 4:06:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

you perhaps should be thanking your lucky stars that religion does exist.

Why, praytell?

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RE: Define God - 8/11/2009 9:11:06 PM

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imagine the religions suddenly closed their doors..... any idea what would happen?

since this isnt in keeping with this thread, ill start another

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 8/11/2009 9:20:20 PM >

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: Define God - 8/12/2009 12:12:40 AM

Esinn

Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As much as you wish to rant and rave against the existence of god... you perhaps should be thanking your lucky stars that religion does exist.

The existence of religion does not demonstrate the existence of god.

Soon religion will end.

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RE: Define God - 8/12/2009 12:59:11 AM

Brain

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Joined: 2/14/2007
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Thank myself that God exists? I don't think so dear. No thanks to His/Her suicde bombers too.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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