quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

And, another thought, Esinn----
Your points aren't worth refutation because you're actually making arguments based on emotion that you're trying to post-it-note scientific reference to as an afterthought. 
Sounds a lot like the tactics of some of the groups that you're sniping at. 
Davan 

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Esin...

Why are you correct?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

ORIGINAL: Esinn
I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads.


Actually, I don't think you are based on the responses you've given some respondents.  While they've stated their beliefs, you've taken stabs at people/been condescending to those who don't go in the direction you desire.  That really doesn't make for open dialogue, it just makes people think that you're a jerk/that you have an axe to grind/etc. 
Davan
(Who firmly believes that one can be godless and discuss god with polite people who believe in god without being rude)

It is established by science that supernatural belief is controlled by a module in the brain.  Any euphoric or spiritual feelings arising from discussion or personal prayer are internal mechanisms at work - not external.  I showed this through detailed explanation, documented peer reviewed journals and by providing links which discuss existing medical technology used in the studies.  I discussed the modern understanding of Psychology and belief dating back to Freud.

I also discussed  the 3 laws of logic which we humans call upon as frequently as we breathe.

If I am mistaken or you feel some info I presented is intentionally deceptive let's discuss it.  If you think presenting facts which logically challenge & criticize belief makes me a jerk,  keep in mind although I understand the material the data collected is not my own.

Thus far only one person whom I have not addressed yet seemed to put any thought into their reply.

If you think me calling someone who is obviously incorrect incorrect or unable to defend their position in a logical fashion makes me a jerk again the problem is yours. 

Sometimes it is fun to make a point stick.  Has not master or yourself chosen specific words to do so?  If my choice or arrangement of words have truly hurt someone accept this be my apology - if my message has I offer nothing

First and foremost, NEVER speak down to me.  It shows much of your character that you would presume to speak down to someone and reference their identification as submissive (Which, in my case, is an erroneous supposition on your part, boy) in a negativistic fashion as part of doing so.  You show your stripes:  misogynist. 
Additionally, you mention psychology and Freud.  As luck would have it, I have a post-Masters' education in psychology.  I'm licensed and have been acknowledged to testify in Federal Court as an Expert witness.  So, my dick's bigger.  Your selective utilization of psychology, referencing an important figure who dates back less than a decade fails to take into account the roots of psychology that are in philosophy and of which religion/theology is a part. 
And, your apology that is actually a non-apology further secures my impression of you and I assure you, I remain unimpressed.  Rather makes me wish to crack open the DSM-4R; I'm thinking Narcissistic Personality Disorder. 
There are those of us who engage on the boards in disagreements with others without beating them down.  I engaged you politely yet you showed your inability to bring civility to the fore. 
You do those of us who are non-religious a disservice; you are not a benefit to our ranks. 
Davan

quote:

First and foremost, NEVER speak down to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Esin...

Why are you correct?

Why am I not?  What have I said up until this point that you believe is wrong, invalid, deceptive or misinformed.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

And what evidence do you have to support this conclusion?

I will gladly allow anyone the opportunity to demonstrate me as incorrect.  However, it is impossible to do when you give me 5-6 words to work with.

I believe I have clearly outlined my position in this thread taking into consideration the OP and Post #37(I believe).  IF you disagree...  Well, not I no longer have the ball.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Esinn,
I read your supposed replies to me and still I return to the fact that you don't answer directly what is directed toward you, you go off on paranoid rants about threats that don't exist and then hack and slash the English language in ways that render what you're saying even less intelligible and less intelligent than it would be if you had a rudimentary command of the words you attempt to use: perhaps part of why you prop yourself up with citations like a sycophantic student google-eyed over his professor, out to prove that he's one of the Big Dogs, academically speaking, when his very need to attempt to prove shows that he's not even in the same ballpark let alone league. 
Several of us have attempted to engage you in intelligent dialogue. 
You simply blather on. 
At this point, I simply choose to say: shut up. 
Davan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Esinn,
I read your supposed replies to me and still I return to the fact that you don't answer directly what is directed toward you, you go off on paranoid rants about threats that don't exist and then hack and slash the English language in ways that render what you're saying even less intelligible and less intelligent than it would be if you had a rudimentary command of the words you attempt to use: perhaps part of why you prop yourself up with citations like a sycophantic student google-eyed over his professor, out to prove that he's one of the Big Dogs, academically speaking, when his very need to attempt to prove shows that he's not even in the same ballpark let alone league. 
Several of us have attempted to engage you in intelligent dialogue. 
You simply blather on. 
At this point, I simply choose to say: shut up. 
Davan

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Esinn,
I read your supposed replies to me and still I return to the fact that you don't answer directly what is directed toward you, you go off on paranoid rants about threats that don't exist and then hack and slash the English language in ways that render what you're saying even less intelligible and less intelligent than it would be if you had a rudimentary command of the words you attempt to use: perhaps part of why you prop yourself up with citations like a sycophantic student google-eyed over his professor, out to prove that he's one of the Big Dogs, academically speaking, when his very need to attempt to prove shows that he's not even in the same ballpark let alone league. 
Several of us have attempted to engage you in intelligent dialogue. 
You simply blather on. 
At this point, I simply choose to say: shut up. 
Davan

<3

Define God:

Something that none will ever agree on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Ah, Respect goes to NZ for having intelligent posts that make me think. It needs to happen more often.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Esinn,
I read your supposed replies to me and still I return to the fact that you don't answer directly what is directed toward you, you go off on paranoid rants about threats that don't exist and then hack and slash the English language in ways that render what you're saying even less intelligible and less intelligent than it would be if you had a rudimentary command of the words you attempt to use: perhaps part of why you prop yourself up with citations like a sycophantic student google-eyed over his professor, out to prove that he's one of the Big Dogs, academically speaking, when his very need to attempt to prove shows that he's not even in the same ballpark let alone league. 
Several of us have attempted to engage you in intelligent dialogue. 
You simply blather on. 
At this point, I simply choose to say: shut up. 
Davan

<3

Define God:

Something that none will ever agree on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Ah, Respect goes to NZ for having intelligent posts that make me think. It needs to happen more often.

Why, thank you. That is much appreciated.

And....trying to tie together this discussion:

I'm having trouble finding the slip in conversation, Esinn. I say this because whether or not I think they would follow along in complete lock-step with each of my views on theism, I think both Davan and pyro would not (and have not) reacted to my comments quite as defensively...and yet I'm about as 'hard-atheist' as I've come across (except for my views on nixing the permissibility of religion/theism, where I differ froms sorts like Dawkins).

I'll see if I can't go back in the discussions to see where the problems came up...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.

LOL?  You are kidding right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Atheist Becomes Theist


5 Proofs for the Existence of God

Just some links i found interesting.

LOL - I just spit my grilled cheese on the monitor when I read your 5 proofs for god.

All of those arguments have been refuted thousands of times for well over 150 years and you trumpet them like they are new.

If you want to open a new thread I will gladly discuss and demonstrate why they are wrong.

I doubt you are even in the mood for logical or rational discussion though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

LOL?  You are kidding right?

I think this is an example of what irritates people. Neopagans are some of the nicer folks on the theism side of things. Frankly, I think we'd be quite happily well off with neopagans in place of most other flavors of theists. Plus the Wiccan Rede is the most formidable base of any quality ethical construct.

She responded with a clear undestanding (it seems) of where her beliefs cannot hold up under scientific and/or materialistic scrutiny, yet still describes how it works functionally for her and makes her happy. Your response kind of waved a hand of dismissal towards it.

There are people who seek to use their theism and the dogmas attached to it to restrain the freedoms and liberties of others based on the faulty morality wrought from it...and those are certainly the sorts to have a more "fangs bared" attitude towards, but there are some who have a very passive and poetic view of their metaphysical thoughts...and I don't find reason to treat those any differently than other forms of personal 'art' (in a sense).

quote:

I don't really think of the Santa Clause/Demons/Cyclopses/Dragons/Unicorns/Flying Teapots I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.

LOL?  You are kidding right?

I think this is an example of what irritates people. Neopagans are some of the nicer folks on the theism side of things. Frankly, I think we'd be quite happily well off with neopagans in place of most other flavors of theists. Plus the Wiccan Rede is the most formidable base of any quality ethical construct.

She responded with a clear undestanding (it seems) of where her beliefs cannot hold up under scientific and/or materialistic scrutiny, yet still describes how it works functionally for her and makes her happy. Your response kind of waved a hand of dismissal towards it.

There are people who seek to use their theism and the dogmas attached to it to restrain the freedoms and liberties of others based on the faulty morality wrought from it...and those are certainly the sorts to have a more "fangs bared" attitude towards, but there are some who have a very passive and poetic view of their metaphysical thoughts...and I don't find reason to treat those any differently than other forms of personal 'art' (in a sense).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

*I do not think she is a neopagan though.  We can ask her?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

all i did was post two links, saying no more than they were interesting. i did not give a view point on either. seems more than religious feathers were ruffled by this thread. which is why i mentioned some time back that religion isnt ever a good thing to debate with so many people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

All you have to do is change one word in the sentence to make it laughable.  We have people who are locked in mental institutions for believing the above statement.

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ORIGINAL: Esinn

The existence of 99% of the gods which millions have claimed existed are now extinct and any reasonable person knows they were inventions of the human mind.

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ORIGINAL: Esinn

The fact someone seems sweet, genuine or chooses to substitute the word god with any mythological thing does not make their comment off the market for harsh criticism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

*I do not think she is a neopagan though.  We can ask her?