RE: Define God (Full Version)

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pyroaquatic -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 7:52:24 AM)

And God created Evil, supposedly.

This is what confuses me on the 'God is Pure Goodness'.

I understand why my greatgrandfather is a hardcore atheist. He survived world war 2 and the terrible things he has told me. He used to be a completely orthodox christian.

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A young man went to a temple and ask a wise man about God. The wise man exclaimed "I am God, you are God, everything is God."
With a burst of energy the young man rushed out of the temple to test his powers of Godliness. The man stood in the path of an elephant and it's rider. The rider yelled to get out of the way but the young man stood fast.

Trampled but not dead the young man healed enough to limp his way back to the temple and angrily confronted the wise man. The young man recounted his story.

"Well why did you not get out of the way when God told you to do so before you were trampled by God?"
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I am not sure why I remember this little story. I am not even sure if this is the right story (heavily paraphrased).




tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 7:58:09 AM)

Then where did satan come from? Is Satan good or evil?



cpK69 -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:01:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then where did satan come from? Is Satan good or evil?


My perspective, neither, 'it' is Deciet, opposer to truth unto life.

Kim 



tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:03:22 AM)

so its a lie?



kittinSol -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:04:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then where did satan come from? Is Satan good or evil?


Pure superstition, as is most of the Bible.



cpK69 -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:05:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

so its a lie?


Which part? From whose perspective?... does seem to be aproximately 9/10 of the law, here on Earth.

Kim



tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:08:19 AM)

for the sake of discussion... God is good... Satan is evil... God created Satan.. can we agree that this is, typically, the way most christians believe?

and as someone pointed out in an earlier post... people die without god interceding...



GreedyTop -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:38:01 AM)

Just had to post THIS



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:38:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

and most would say god is good... according to the bible. so... the bible says god is good.. and we, as sinners... are evil... anyone not agreeable to that supposition?


I would not venture to say whether "most" are Christian or not.  I am not Christian and I do not believe in the original sin concept or a devil figure such as Satan..  I prefer to take an "innocent until proven guilty on an individual basis" position.  As I believe we are all one with the rest of creation and diety and that God/Goddess is not evil, neither are we inherently evil.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" tells me what is evil or wrong so, if someone chooses to harm, then what they are doing is evil or wrong.  Of course, this is just my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then where did satan come from? Is Satan good or evil?


Pure superstition, as is most of the Bible.


According to the bible, Satan is a good angel gone bad.  Before the beginning of creation, he got too big for his britches by thinking he was more glorious and powerful than God & God knocked him down a notch, throwing him out of heaven and making him ruler over hell.

The bible itself is supposed to have been divinely inspired, but how can that be proven?  It was written down by men and so were all the religious writings of other religions.  It will never be proven either way.



tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:43:02 AM)

im not speaking of the original sin. im asking... would you not agree that Christians believe god is good and satan is evil?



MasterHermes -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:44:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn


We know according to the three laws of logic which are non-conceptual laws, they exist without a human mind, for something to exist it must have an identity which is not a logical contradiction.

Definition is a mandatory prerequisite for existence - a logical postulate.  Meaning for something which human current knowledge is aware of to exist we must be able to give "X" an articulate non-ambigious definition.  If this can not be done or the definition violates the laws of logic the concept is meaningless, & simply ceases to exist or is proven to be a concept existing only within the individual mind - having no external influence.


Since you are a great follower of the logic: How did you come up with the idea of these logical laws being exist without a human mind (or any other mind in that matter) ? In order to make that observation you must exist, and your very existence makes it impossible for you to observe if those laws are non-conceptual. You can not declare any non-conceptual laws in the field of logic, because you as a human being are already conceptualizing every observation you make. This is how a thought process works for the human mind. First you get a sensory information from your eyes, ears, nose etc.. (it can be something like reading too, you need eyes for reading or ears for hearing somebody to read you if you are blind). Then your mind process this sensory information and conceptualize it, then it makes a conclusion by comparing it with prior knowledge, then your brain stores it. Therefore you can never be in a position of knowing what is non-conceptual as long as you are in the field of thought , therefore logic.

Now what happened here is similar. You read or heard something about god (sensory info from ears and eyes), you thought about it (conceptualized it) , you compared it with your previous conclusions, you made a new conclusion or an altered version of an old one and you decided to share it. Same process repeated for other people replying you, and since everybody has different previous conclusions , they also made different inferences. This will keep on going as an endless cycle.

Now I suspect you want to challenge other peoples concept of god using your logic, instead of wondering what is the essence of the universe. That is all fine (if you are all entertained), as long as you realize every inference you make is conceptual.

Hermes



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:45:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then where did satan come from? Is Satan good or evil?


Satan is neither, he illuminates both, as his name implies.

Well their laughs of pain
And their harder smiles
And their rigid arms
And their evil signs
The longer days, the longer nights
Yeah, they're longer still
On each and all those holy nights
When dusters dust becomes the sale
And Lucifer the light



tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:49:27 AM)

then we have agreement... in part. do please, amuse me willbe, for a few. im asking a series of questions, with a very defining point at the end.

All the hatred... racism... torment.. pain.. death.. ect... all these christians consider signs of the presence of evil.... and many atheists use as an argument against the presence of a good god... why would he allow these things?



RCdc -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:54:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

why no to the second? is god not good?


Because you need to define 'good'.
God is Righteous.  But God would not be definable as good, because good is a human concept.  Since 'God' is beyond human understanding... the nearest best word to good would be 'righteous'... that doesn't necessitate the need for all acts to be 'good'.
Jesus, you could - at a stretch - be defined as 'good'.  But not God.
 
the.dark.



tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:55:32 AM)

ah, Jesus is my next step



Rule -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:56:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
and most would say god is good... according to the bible. so... the bible says god is good.. and we, as sinners... are evil... anyone not agreeable to that supposition?
Quoting an authority source does not make an assertion true. As for the authors of the Bible: them politically correct scribblers left out the names of the gods and the farao's they were talking about. Mostly it is about the god of the Jews and he wanted he Jews to worship the Divine with which he identified, thus causing a lot of confusion.
 
As for the Divine: it is necessarily indifferent, apathic. If it wasn't, the principle of free will would be violated - inevitably resulting in a predictable and thus to the Divine utterly boring perversion of Creation.



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:57:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

im not speaking of the original sin. im asking... would you not agree that Christians believe god is good and satan is evil?


Yes, I would agree that most Christians believe God is good and Satan is evil.



RCdc -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:57:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

and most would say god is good... according to the bible. so... the bible says god is good.. and we, as sinners... are evil... anyone not agreeable to that supposition?


I doubt many (christians at least) would suggest that god is 'good'... God would be, in essence, beyond good.
 
the.dark.



pyroaquatic -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 8:59:55 AM)

The opposites define each other.

Good defines bad, short defines long, high defines low.

Allow them? God is all of these things.

Is cancer evil? It is all dust and probabilities in my eyes, if that means anything.



tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/4/2009 9:00:03 AM)

now, typically, Christians also believe in Jesus Christ, who died on the cross, the only begotten son of god, for the sins of us all... according to their religious belief, or at least as far as i remember it being taught.. agreed? im not asking anyone if these questions are true in your own belief... but are they true in the religious belief of christians?



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