Need some help please! (Full Version)

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HarderToBreathe2 -> Need some help please! (8/6/2009 12:50:53 PM)

Hi all, this is my first time posting in the forums.  I'm here because I'm looking for some insight and/or advice.  I posted the following in the journal on my profile, but figure it might get more viewers here... and thus increase the possibility that someone can help, or at least relate in some way.  Something I want to add -- being that I've never been in a D/s relationship (because I either meet the wrong guys and/or can't get past the beginning of things, as explained below), I am wondering if this "issue" of mine possibly has anything to do with the D/s dynamic in itself;  i.e., are there some subs who simply need to give up all control to the one with whom they're involved in order for things to run smoothly?  I ask because, left to my own devices, I'm pretty good at running things into the ditch.  The more likely explanation, I'm sure, is that I just need a lot of attention and reassurance in the beginning, until trust has been established and a solid foundation has been built.  But since I'm inexperienced, just thought I'd ask about the D/s side of things.  BTW, what I'm looking for is a meaningful relationship, monogomous and long-term, with an emotional and mental connection; with a fairly strong D/s dynamic, but nothing that is announced to the world.  I'm not interested in "playing", and not interested in the lifestyle per se.  I just want something good and real with someone I really like and could maybe one day love.  Honestly I may have found that, but due to what I speak of below, I ended things for the third time in a week.  And it's 3 strikes you're out, right, so I'm hoping to learn something for the next sweet guy who happens to come along.  
   
Pasted from my journal:
I am beginning to suspect that the only way in which I will ever move from the "liking" stage to a solid commitment is if someone holds on tight and refuses to let go until the period of uncertainty has passed.  I say this because I cannot seem to get past the beginning of a relationship without freaking out and causing the demise of everything.  I'm sure this is due in part to the fact that a few weeks in, I suddenly drop everything else in my life and cease to be myself for a while. 

I am fully aware that I do this, yet any attempts to white-knuckle my way through it and be/do something different rarely works... at least not for any extented period of time.  Believe me, I've tried.  The whole thing is really quite disheartening.  Anyone happen to have any advice or experience with this that they wouldn't mind sharing?? 

I am also very intolerant of many things, and I feel easily betrayed -especially during that crucial period of uncertainty that I spoke of above. The only reason I'm writing this is because I need help!  And if you do choose to chime in, please don't tell me to just relax, b/c that's not helpful, lol.  It's like telling someone with a phobia of flying to "just chill and get on the damn plane".  While one person feels safe in the knowledge that more people die in cars than in planes, the person in the seat beside you may be convinced that the plane is going to crash and burn. 

And oh yeah, being single for long periods of time does not help, trust me.  I can be generally relaxed and happy, laid-back, there for those who mean the most to me, and at least semi-productive on a daily basis (when I'm uninvolved)... then realize that I actually like someone and become nervous, distracted, stressed, and depressed.  WTH??  This would all be okay if I had no desire for a meaningful relationship, but most of us want that in our lives, including me.

[Mod Note:  font size increased]



Danemora -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:01:20 PM)

Id be willing to offer some advice, but the size of your font makes it really difficult to read what you have written.  



RedMagic1 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:02:50 PM)

Are you saying that you met a guy you really liked, so you told him it was over?  And then he forgave you and started things back up again, so you told him it was over again?  And then he gave you another chance, and you told him it was over yet again?

I don't know if you've ever thought of it in these terms, but dominant men get their feelings, egos, and hearts hurt, too.  It's not just female subs who take emotional risks in new relationships.

How much do you think you damaged this man?  How long will it take him to trust another woman, much less another woman who says she wants to be submissive to him and then treats his emotions like a yo-yo?

Perhaps it would help if you realized that it's not all about you.  If you've been doing this for years, you've probably been hurting men for years.  Is that really the kind of person you want to be?



SirLost -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:14:45 PM)

The period before starting a D/s relationship isn't different from a vanilla relationship at all. Building a good communication and being in a state that you feel comfortable are the basics for a long-term, meaningful relationship. Giving all the controls to your partner while building the relationship is a bad idea, it must be one that you feel yourself comfortable.

Having failed three times in a week doesn't mean you are the one who's doing it wrong, we men are outnumbered and you may have just met ones that couldn't comfort you.

And there's not anything too wrong in worrying for being alone, we all need someone like we want. But I believe a strong person is one who can get along by him/herself.

Communication is the key.



rayne221 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:17:13 PM)

Wow.. okay, let me have a go at this.
First, let me say that i seek precisely the type of relationship you do and for me, I realized the way things are labeled and defined now, what I really seek is a DD (Domestic Discipline) relationship and not a D/s one. (D/s more and more is now falling under the umbrella of BDSM and the kink and lifestyle.)
This 'initial' period you speak of, may well be the stage that was coined by a great friend of mine as the "Throw them off the mountain" or "sabotage" period. For some reason, (everyone has their own reasons) we almost subconsciously sabotage the relationship before it has a chance. Often the sabotaging is cause by a lack of trust or faith and it's a way we test to see if they truly can take our worst.
Having gone down that road myself, i have some fantastic advice for you. This was not my idea by the way, but a recent Dom's who I have recently started growing close to. Not only does it provide for me the reassurances I need but magically it entirely dissolves the need to sabotage.

"You MUST communicate with me what you are thinking." He said
Now, to say "communicate" is so general and we've all heard that before. When he said it the way he said it though... i finally GOT IT. When I was feeling that I was the one calling him all the time and he was not calling me...and that i was 'chasing' him.... i told him. I shared with him that i was feeling like our dynamic was moving into one where i was chasing him as opposed to a shared interest in one another. I added that i am too old to chase... i don't run that fast anymore. LOL. He responded instantly with "Never feel the need to chase me .... I am pursuing you and I will never allow you to feel "unhunted'. That was instant reassurance for me, and i no longer felt the need to sabotage it and throw him off the mountain. Instead... i felt so cared for.
Sometimes our subbie emotions are so child-like. And they need to be able to take that child and sit down with them and explain the way things are. Like the time I was jumping up and down and saying to this Man -- "Let's meet this Friday... i know it's only two days away ...but let's DO IT. " He responded with the fact he had tickets to a game. I felt an instant let down. Instant dissapointment and like that five year old who has been told i can't have that treat. I even found myself wondering if he really DOES want to meet. I received an email shortly after from him stating: " Let me be clear. I do want to meet. I do want to get to know you more. Meeting on Friday though just can't work this time." IT was truly like he took me calmly...sat me down ... and told me directly that ... he does love me.. that he does care about me..that he does care abotu what i want... but this time... he just can't give me that treat." It was all I needed to once again, be reassured and feel cared for. The only thing which I will stress that can't be child-like, is our communication. Instead of the temper tantrums (which is a sabotage in and of itself) ,....communicate in a way of sharing rather than judging or blaming.

i don't know if any or all of this fits at all... but you just might find a nugget of gold in here with some luck...that you can use.... so that you too will find a Dom who will calmly and gently ... lead you from the mountain edge.. tell you ... 'we don't need to do that' and deal immediately , maturely and calmly with the issue.

Good luck hon.




HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:31:24 PM)

To RedMagic1-
 
Believe me, I know.  :(  The problem is that there were moments in which I became convinced that he really no longer cared about me, and so I ended it before he did.  I didn't feel that it would hurt him.  I've explained things to him, but thinking about it now, I imagine that it was nonetheless hurtful.  I learned this way of being in relationships, btw, by having it done to me many many times, which I know is no excuse.  It's just very hard for me to trust anyone.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:35:07 PM)

I was on CM while on aol, so maybe that was the reason for a hard-to-read font size... aol shows pages differently sometimes... sorry!!!  :)



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:52:39 PM)

Rayne,

Thank you SOO much for your kind words.  You really hit the nail on the head.  That is exactly what I do - I sabotage things.  And I only start doing it when I begin to realize how much I care.  I really really care for this guy, although I fear that I have now reached the point of no return and have to live with what I've done.  This guy is just like your Dom friend in that he wanted me to communicate with him, and he was very responsive and kind about what I had to say.  I told him all of the reasons that I got scared and ended things, and I did my best to assure him that it was because I cared rather than that I didn't care.  I think he understood this, but said he'd lost trust in me and that it would take time to rebuild it (this was after the first and second times I ended things... which, btw, I tried to correct each time within a day after, at the most).  I understood this and respected his need to rebuild trust, but as a result, he was slightly less attentive, slightly less available... and I freaked and said it was over again.  Ugh.  This was last night, btw, the third ending of things. 

What you said about having to speak up when you felt that you were the one doing all the calling and the chasing... that is EXACTLY how I was beginning to feel, but I was too afraid to ask for him to call me more, text me more, etc.  I did say to him a few times that I felt I was being clingy, and that I then overcompensated by being standoffish.  Guys HATE clingy, right??  (He didn't really respond to that, btw, as I just said it within a whole host of other worries and explanations of my behavior. )



RedMagic1 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 1:57:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2
Guys HATE clingy, right?? 

Not necessarily.  If I'm into someone, I want to talk to her as much as possible.  Different men are different.  Instead of thinking about "guys," did you spend time thinking about him?  "Does it please you if I call you five times a day?"  "How would you most like me to show that you are important to me?"  "How would you most like to be served when we are not together?"

Did you ask those questions?  More importantly, whether you asked them or not, did you know the answers?  And did you try to follow through on how he wanted to be treated, not just how you think "guys" like to be treated?



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 2:02:00 PM)

Thank you for your advice, SirLost.  Everything you said in the first paragraph makes perfect sense, and I tend to agree.  I guess it would just be really nice if someone else would take the lead and do all the work for once, ya know?  I tend to take the weight of the world upon my shoulders most times. 

As for your second paragraph, perhaps you're right.  Honestly, you are entirely right where it concerns the guys in my past.  This guy, he was actually very stable and calm and comforting... until, perhaps, he lost trust in me.  :(  Why must caring be so hard?

And finally, your third paragraph... I function so much better, emotionally speaking, when I am alone rather than involved with someone.  That's not to say that I'm anywhere close to where I need to be in my life yet, but everything is just so much calmer and easier on my own.



Danemora -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 2:05:29 PM)

Thanks for increasing the font size.  My eyes have sadly gone to crap as Ive gotten older :)

Though you desire a relationship and connection with someone, I get the feeling that maybe you have an overwhelming need to protect yourself from being hurt that overrides everything else.  It can even color your perception of situations and you might perceive things that may or may not even be there.  There is a phenomenon in psychology called a self-fulfilling prophecy.  When I read what you wrote, this phenomenon instantly came to mind and I wonder perhaps if you arent engaging in this behavior.  Maybe you wanted to leave them before they got the chance to hurt/leave you?  I guess what I gathered is that even though you would like to be in a relationship and close to someone, the past has managed to erect a fortress around you and walls you off.  Every now and then someone will attempt to scale the wall, but you have a number of defenses in place that prevents anyone from really being successful.     

I may very well be off-base here and if I am, please know that it wasnt to bring you down.  I honestly think that the issues you have written about have nothing to do with D/s, but rather with you engaging in self-preservation and protection from the threat of being hurt again.  Since you are hoping to correct things before the next sweet guy comes along, Id suggest that if you can...find someone you could speak with on a regular basis to work on healing the pain of your past so it doesnt have to cloud your future.     



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 2:08:56 PM)

You have a valid point.  It's just about impossible, however, for me to seperate this guy from all the jerks before him, you know?  I hate to say that, and I don't wanna be *that girl*.  I was, for the most part, trusting him very much.  But moments of doubt creep in, and that's when it all falls apart.  As for what he himself likes in the way of contact... he seemed to like a lot of it, which suit me perfectly, because I liked it too.  I guess I'm insecure with my own self and feared that I was being "too available".



SirLost -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 2:17:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

Thank you for your advice, SirLost.  Everything you said in the first paragraph makes perfect sense, and I tend to agree.  I guess it would just be really nice if someone else would take the lead and do all the work for once, ya know?  I tend to take the weight of the world upon my shoulders most times. 

As for your second paragraph, perhaps you're right.  Honestly, you are entirely right where it concerns the guys in my past.  This guy, he was actually very stable and calm and comforting... until, perhaps, he lost trust in me.  :(  Why must caring be so hard?

And finally, your third paragraph... I function so much better, emotionally speaking, when I am alone rather than involved with someone.  That's not to say that I'm anywhere close to where I need to be in my life yet, but everything is just so much calmer and easier on my own.



I don't think building a relationship should be perceived as a 'work'. Shouldn't be harder than making a friend, you just happen to spend time with someone nice, being only yourself; and the rest comes out. I don't remember spending any effort to build any relationship (maybe only at the meeting period), I haven't done anything but being myself and time showed if I could get well with them.

Personally, I don't find caring hard (and maybe as a 'work' like I said about building a relationship), only because I like doing it. But I avoid asking anyone if she's okay more frequent than once a day, because that would bore her unnecessarily.




leadership527 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 2:24:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2
Believe me, I know.  :(  The problem is that there were moments in which I became convinced that he really no longer cared about me, and so I ended it before he did.  I didn't feel that it would hurt him.  I've explained things to him, but thinking about it now, I imagine that it was nonetheless hurtful.  I learned this way of being in relationships, btw, by having it done to me many many times, which I know is no excuse.  It's just very hard for me to trust anyone.

I dunno.. maybe this is where I am a cold-hearted bastard. But in my mind, the moment this:

I became convinced that he really no longer cared about me

became true, he had failed you as your dominant and you absolutely positively should've run screaming for the hills. The question you need to ask yourself in the cold hard light of day is whether your conviction on that point was well founded or did you spin it out of thin air based on your own insecurities. But seriously, who in their right mind would allow someone to control them when they didn't feel confident that person cared about them? Carol allows me to control her life so extensively precisely because she is absolutely certain that my intent is always loving and good (execution, of course, sometimes falls short of the mark).

Just as an aside, judging from the postings I read from doms and subs alike on this board, there's enough doms out there that genuinely don't care that your experience(s) sound perfectly plausible to me. But only you can really answer whether or not the issues that have spooked you rightfully belong to you or the doms in question. The correct answer to most such questions is, "some of both"



kiwisub12 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 2:35:13 PM)

This is probably 180 degrees from what i would normally say - but it sounds to me that you would be better off in an online relationship for a while. It might give you time to decompress and get over the whole anxiety/trust/acceptance issue.   Texting and talking on the phone may distance you enough that your brain will be able to get comfortable with the idea of a caring relationship.

and from what i have seen texting ad nauseum is par for the course, so you wouldn't be perceived as being "clingy" - or perceive yourself that way.

the other thing is you need to stop saying to yourself "i am going to panic and spoil everything"   -   try saying something like "i deserve an emotionally satisfying relationship" , or " i can handle this relationship".  If your internal voice is saying negative things to you, then that is probably what you will end up with. Change it to positive messages. And yes, it feels a bit silly for a while, but just for a while. [:D]



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 2:58:07 PM)

*I accidently replied to Kiwi, but this one is to Danemora, sorry!  Just got a new netbook and everything is so small, hard to get used to it.

You are all amazingly right on the money with everything you've said, and I thank you all so much for taking the time to read my post and reply.  :) 

Danemora, what you said is correct, and don't worry, it didn't bring me down.  Most of my past is in the far distant past, but old feelings and insecurities die hard sometimes.  I've actually tried the therapy thing more than once and didn't get much benefit from it... perhaps because I didn't click with the therapist, and perhaps because at the time, I was very angry inside and resistant to hearing what they had to say.  I'm no longer that angry person anymore, not at all, so I guess something did click into place along the way.  But I guess we always have more room to grow, huh?  I think if someone would just stick with me through the initial anxiety, I would be fine, once I didn't fear things ending before they even begin.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 3:04:48 PM)

Sadly, things were exactly as they should be... a nice, easy, casual progress from becoming friends to seeing the potential for more.  EVERYTHING was great, until I got scared and called things off that first time.  I've spent a lot of time trying to fix things, and to be fair, so has he.  I think trust and communication were the two major issues here.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 3:14:15 PM)

Now THIS one is in reply to Kiwi.  :)

This actually was somewhat of an online relationship, in that we had not had a chance to meet yet.  We planned on it, though, and twice he changed wkend plans that we had (although admittedly, both times were for very valid reasons).  Coincidentally, it was after both of those times of postponing the meeting that I "ended" things!  But thus far, we had not been able to move from online to RL, even though that was always the plan.  He lives just 4 hours from me, but it's still not all that easy to just pick up and meet for the weekend.  We both live with our parents (lol), so the only option is one or both of us getting a hotel room, since neither of us can have the other over to stay at the house.  I think it reached the point where things could not progress further without meeting in person.  Things were going along at a very nice pace, but then when I started panicking, it was harder to maintain an overall connection than it would be if we were able to see each other.  If that makes sense.

In response to your last paragraph...  that is EXCELLENT advice, and I will definitely remember to do that!!!!!!




petoblivion -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 3:14:57 PM)

I'm not sure about this guy and this might be a little hard, but if you have a history of ending up with the "wrong guy" and a history of pushing away those that might not be so much the wrong guy then  being in a relationship right now might not be the right idea. Even if you find the right guy you may risk losing him because right now it sounds like you're so uncertain of yourself and your judgment that you are indeed 'sabotaging' things. If you can, try to look into good counseling as through counseling you can address any issues that affect you and in turn affect potential relationships.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Need some help please! (8/6/2009 3:23:17 PM)

quote:

The question you need to ask yourself in the cold hard light of day is whether your conviction on that point was well founded or did you spin it out of thin air based on your own insecurities.


I'm 99% sure that I spun it out of my own insecurities "breakup #1" and "breakup #2".  As for the third time (yesterday), I'm only about 75% sure that it was due to my own insecurities.  He had pulled back slightly, though, with the amount of contact (after breakups #1 and #2), which I perceived to mean that he was quickly losing interest, and I didn't want to stick around for the slow fizzle of feelings and contact, so I squashed it before that could happen.



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