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how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/21/2006 8:30:42 PM

ShivaTS

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Hi just wondering how other subs figure out their body has had enough while in subspace. I ask this because my understanding of subspace is when the endophines are running wild therefore you cant feel pain in the same way.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/21/2006 8:33:22 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Subspace is unique for everyone. Sometimes in subspace, you can't be a good judge of whether things are going too far, or you won't care if they do.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/21/2006 8:33:49 PM

ownedgirlie

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i tend to not be in a position to determine that for myself and such determination is left to my trusted Master, who has time and again, called it exactly right.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/21/2006 9:15:38 PM

perverseangelic

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While I get endorphin highs, I don't go into an "altered state." As such, I am aware if there's something seriously wrong.

Part of my job, within the structure of my relationship, is to let my Owner know if there's something going on that would be a problem. IE I'm cramping somewhere, or I think there's been some serious damage done. I let him know what's going on, he decides whether or not that means it's time for him to stop.

I think I'm pretty alone in this, but I think that it'simportant for bottoms/s-types to stay with themselves enough while playing that they are able to communicate if somethings wrong. For me, I think that you should always be able to tell your owner that there's a problem, and if you're getting so disconected that you can't communicate, -that- is something you should bring to your owners attention.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/21/2006 9:49:26 PM

petcerina

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How do i know when i've had enough? i don't. Master usually stops the scene before i do. i have stopped a few scenes, but something has to seriously go wrong or i'm not in subspace in the beginning just enjoying the scene.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/21/2006 10:06:39 PM

truesub4u

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I get into my own sub space... and my sub space differs from others...

Although I'm in a good high.. my body will pull me out of that high if something is going wrong.. or it's had enough. I've been lucky enough in the past.. to be trained.. to allow myself the pleasure of being able to slowly be pulled back to my reality.. without having to tell Master.. STOP..... but be able to tell him... we need to start winding down. It's not so much as done with words.. but with actions though. And he can see this action of mine.... and take the action into his hands... to start winding things down.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 6:27:13 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

While I get endorphin highs, I don't go into an "altered state." As such, I am aware if there's something seriously wrong.

Part of my job, within the structure of my relationship, is to let my Owner know if there's something going on that would be a problem. IE I'm cramping somewhere, or I think there's been some serious damage done. I let him know what's going on, he decides whether or not that means it's time for him to stop.

I think I'm pretty alone in this, but I think that it'simportant for bottoms/s-types to stay with themselves enough while playing that they are able to communicate if somethings wrong. For me, I think that you should always be able to tell your owner that there's a problem, and if you're getting so disconected that you can't communicate, -that- is something you should bring to your owners attention.

Since it's very rare for me to go into subspace DURING a scene, this is generally what happens as well. Bottoming IS a responsibility, and you don't suddenly get a Free Pass just because you went into subspace.

That being said, I think it's cool if someone can go into an altered state to the point of being that completely at peace and unaware (and I hope the bottoms try and give the tops this experience as well).

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 7:13:58 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Since it's very rare for me to go into subspace DURING a scene, this is generally what happens as well. Bottoming IS a responsibility, and you don't suddenly get a Free Pass just because you went into subspace.

That being said, I think it's cool if someone can go into an altered state to the point of being that completely at peace and unaware (and I hope the bottoms try and give the tops this experience as well).

It depends who you're talking to. i am required to totally and completely let go, to "give him everything" as he says. To become unaware and place everything in his hands. i wouldn't call that a "free pass" at all. i would call that my obligation and absolute trust.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 7:15:28 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShivaTS

Hi just wondering how other subs figure out their body has had enough while in subspace. I ask this because my understanding of subspace is when the endophines are running wild therefore you cant feel pain in the same way.

I have always relied on my partner to know when I have had enough or reached a limit. Mainly because once I hit space, I am pretty much gone. I completly let myself get lost in it.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 7:29:59 AM

Jasmyn

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quote:

I think I'm pretty alone in this, but I think that it'simportant for bottoms/s-types to stay with themselves enough while playing that they are able to communicate if somethings wrong. For me, I think that you should always be able to tell your owner that there's a problem, and if you're getting so disconected that you can't communicate, -that- is something you should bring to your owners attention.

Yeah I'm going to disagree (to a point).. as a dom/top it is entirely my responsibility to watch out for and recognise that moment when the sub begins to disconnect. It's the entire reason I play...it's nirvana.

When they begin to disconnect (excellent analogy btw) it tells me two things, they are no longer in a position to 'safeword' and they are no longer in a position to know what their body can and can't handle. I don't want the sub/bottom fighting the urge to drift off because they *feel* they must tell me they are.

I think *if* a sub/bottom is playing with someone where they *have* to tell them they are 'disconnecting' to be sure the dom/top becomes aware of it, or the dom/top relys on the sub/bottom telling them, is not safe play imo, and I'd question the dom/top on where they're heads at and why are they picking up whip if, like relying on a sub to safeword or tell them something is wrong, if they can't recognise when something is going right, let alone something is wrong.

Perhaps I'm been to harsh, so if this is working for you and helps you when scening then wonderful and hope you enjoy many more pleasurable scenes doing just that :) Just as a dom/top, as a blanket default that subs/bottoms should stay with themselves enough to communicate something is wrong I don't think is conducive to scenes, especially SM scenes....well ok, the scenes that I do anyway ;)

Suppose it all comes back to ... know thy dominant! and know thy sub.

< Message edited by Jasmyn -- 2/22/2006 7:32:12 AM >

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 7:34:20 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

I think *if* a sub/bottom is playing with someone where they *have* to tell them they are 'disconnecting' to be sure the dom/top becomes aware of it, or the dom/top relys on the sub/bottom telling them, is not safe play imo, and I'd question the dom/top on where they're heads at and why are they picking up whip if, like relying on a sub to safeword or tell them something is wrong, if they can't recognise when something is going right, let alone something is wrong

I could not agree more with this statement. If the person you are with can not recognize the signs, without a word from you, just seems dangerous to me. But that is just my opinion and based solely on my own experiences.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 7:44:46 AM

Jasmyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShivaTS
Hi just wondering how other subs figure out their body has had enough while in subspace. I ask this because my understanding of subspace is when the endophines are running wild therefore you cant feel pain in the same way.

Shiva, like I alluded to in my post above, the sub/bottom reaching that point is my nirvana, it is where I want them to be, it is where I want them to go... at which point it becomes MY RESPONSIBILITY to know when THEIR BODY has had enough. And there are plenty of tell-tale signs that alert me and/or begin signalling to me when this is soon to be the case.

I guess that is easy for me to say because I do not inflict pain to cause hurt or to damage and I have no interest in seeing some become blood raw or bruised black and blue for weeks to come because I'm want to beat the crap out of them...so I have no desire to flaggelate a body beyond it's ability to cope in the days to come.

Again, I must stress it comes back to KNOWING THY DOMINANT/KNOWING THY TOP and playing with people who will crawl before they can walk, and who will walk before they can run.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 7:52:11 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
I could not agree more with this statement. If the person you are with can not recognize the signs, without a word from you, just seems dangerous to me. But that is just my opinion and based solely on my own experiences.

Well we can't expect tops to be mind readers. If two total novices are playing together, they might not even know what to look for, and some people can have very surprising reactions and don't all look the same.

Doesn't mean the top is dangerous or that the bottom is irresponsible. There's just a level of sensibility- this is why you negotiate, this is why you communicate before the scene on "OK when I start to cry, I'm happy, but when I start to twitch, I'm not" and all those other things.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 7:56:13 AM

IrishMist

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I am not disagreeing with you on that LA. I was speaking more from my own POV and not really taking into account two novices with each other. Point taken

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 8:11:55 AM

Jasmyn

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Which is why I qualified further that one shouldn't walk before one can crawl. Agree totally with what you are saying and that no one can gaurantee how someone will react and that novices especially should totally be communicating all the different things they are going through or suspect they may go through.

But Shiva asked specifically about knowing how to know when her body has had enough when she is in subspace.. implying physical harm may eventuate... which is what I was addressing with my comments.

If someone's play/scening has evolved to a point of inflicting physical harm upon another person that may very well reach a point of 'enough' then that dom/top best be aware of many things and if they are not experienced or ignorant of these things, then they best not carry on playing with someone beyond that point of disconnection.

< Message edited by Jasmyn -- 2/22/2006 8:15:03 AM >

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 8:33:26 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

how other subs figure out their body has had enough while in subspace.

for this slave there is no "had enough", subspace or not, that is a decision that Master makes~He is the one in control~however, we are not "new" to each other--as we were getting to know each other, before becoming His slave, He would allow time-outs for this slave to catch her breath. this slave feels it is VERY important to know each other intimately before such a level of trust can be established.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 11:01:21 AM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Yeah I'm going to disagree (to a point).. as a dom/top it is entirely my responsibility to watch out for and recognise that moment when the sub begins to disconnect. It's the entire reason I play...it's nirvana.

When they begin to disconnect (excellent analogy btw) it tells me two things, they are no longer in a position to 'safeword' and they are no longer in a position to know what their body can and can't handle. I don't want the sub/bottom fighting the urge to drift off because they *feel* they must tell me they are.

I think *if* a sub/bottom is playing with someone where they *have* to tell them they are 'disconnecting' to be sure the dom/top becomes aware of it, or the dom/top relys on the sub/bottom telling them, is not safe play imo, and I'd question the dom/top on where they're heads at and why are they picking up whip if, like relying on a sub to safeword or tell them something is wrong, if they can't recognise when something is going right, let alone something is wrong.

Perhaps I'm been to harsh, so if this is working for you and helps you when scening then wonderful and hope you enjoy many more pleasurable scenes doing just that :) Just as a dom/top, as a blanket default that subs/bottoms should stay with themselves enough to communicate something is wrong I don't think is conducive to scenes, especially SM scenes....well ok, the scenes that I do anyway ;)

Suppose it all comes back to ... know thy dominant! and know thy sub.

I figured this would be disagreed with, 's cool, and honestly I figure my opinions on this will change as more time passes.

I don't think one needs to necesarially hold one'sself back. Rather, I think one should inform one's d-type that one's going, and let the d-type make the decition as to whether or not this means stop or keep going.

I hear what you're saying, and I understand, and actually have the exact oposite view.
While my Owner knows me very well and knows how my body reacts, I personally find it unsafe to totally depend on his read of my recations. To me, no matter how well you know your partner, you know yourself better, at least in terms of how you're reacting to something. No one looking at you can know how you're feeling.

We don't do the safeword thing, and similarly, I'm not constantly telling him what's going on. It's more my backup measure. Like a safeword, I suppose, but not a kill-switch. It always comes back to what he decideds. He's got something he wants me to feel, I keep an eye on my body to make sure it doesn't hurt itself and he makes me feel that thing.

Not harsh at all! Different. And I -do- know that my opinions will change, or maybe not :). For now, and the way most of our play works it's my job to be the 'back up" so to speak. While I trust him intimatly, I also know that he trusts me to catch something if he misses it.

Too, this might be a difference in people playing. He's decidedly NOT a sadist, and I am decidely a masochist. I have a feeling that changes the dynamic a LOT between people playing.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 11:35:56 AM

proudsub

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quote:

But Shiva asked specifically about knowing how to know when her body has had enough when she is in subspace.. implying physical harm may eventuate... which is what I was addressing with my comments.

I can't answer Shiva's question, but i do admire her for asking, given her past history of having trouble saying no to dominants.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 11:49:24 AM

Slipstreme

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I've never gone so far into subspace so as not to feel pain or remember the scene. I really haven't stopped my scenes, more than outlasted my Tops. One, when he tops, gets bored it relatively quickly. During my longest scene it just got to the point my Top had to go home. (Yes Im a youngin, the boy I'm talking about here is a senior in high school, living with his folks. They were pissed he was out so late on a school night.) I've yet to utter my safeword: Penguin (for those who wish to know).

On the flipside, as a Top, I've been lucky enough to notice physical trama, because at one time I was playing with a submissive who can't safeword. He just can't. Although, lately, I've stopped scenes when I realize I am feeling too sadistic and ready to give into those urges that would push my bottom far past what they have consented to.

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RE: how do you know when you've had enough? - 2/22/2006 12:24:24 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Hi just wondering how other subs figure out their body has had enough while in subspace.

When the Master/Dom, who by definition has spent enough time with the sub to read his/her body, stops. If you can't trust your partner to do so, don't engage in play having the potential of putting you in "subspace". Don't consider it safe if you put yourself in a position where your Dom's lack of skills, and/or knowledge of you, puts you in a position of jeopardy.

I base this on how beth and other people I've been with describe "subspace". They report that they are incapable of making a conscience decision concerning what is happening to them. Under that definition, and no it doesn't represent "THE" definition, once in "subspace" you are trusting someone else with your body. If that's the case, they should know how far to take you on your journey through "space".

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