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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 8:32:32 AM

HarderToBreathe2

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quote:

See I am not like you, I need emotional openness to be able to feel secure enough to submit. Without that, the second guessing causes an awful lot of emotional anguish for me.

Agreed. Which is why communication is so highly important. When you have no idea how someone feels, it really does cause emotional anguish and second guessing like you said.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 8:40:25 AM

IronBear

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When my two previous wives and I broke up, there was a great deal of hurt and a sense of sadness for what I had lost emotionally, however by the time divorces had been finalized there was no feeling except for the anger of in the first divorce costing me a large portion of my wealth and in the second case the lose of my son. However when I have suffered loss of people close to me and whom I had invested a good amount of time, love and caring for socially, professionally, in my pagan life area or in my kink lifestyle, I felt this loss emotionally. often the loss was due to us either growing apart and moving on to different things, people moving interstate or over seas or people becoming dead. With some of them and especially those who died under my command, I still feel that loss personally. I am basically an emotional and romantic man which causes my wife to comment that when I do things or am involved in some project or another, I do it with a grand passion. Both Neets and I have been hurt when people we had spent time helping and caring about have turned out to be users. because of our basic natures, we will I imagine allow ourselves to be hurt occasionally because we will almost always stand ready to help those who need assistance. Both of us have learned to deal with this and not allow such things to negatively impact on our lives any more. For every person who has hurt us there are two more with whom we can laugh and share some pleasant times. I treat life as a huge learning curve.. So much to learn , so many people to meet and so little time.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 9:07:34 AM

LATEXBABY64

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if you prick us do we not bleed AnyHow we have become a trash can culture thanks to the 90s mentality We have more value i would like to think that there those of us who do have feelings and care about those we serve or those that serve us. There some that have no feelings for one reason or another just would stay clear of them just my take on it

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 9:13:54 AM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64
if you prick us do we not bleed

Interesting you should ask that because I've been able to stab myself through the finger during operation 'remove splinter' and in terms of blood nada.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 9:14:38 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64
if you prick us do we not bleed

Interesting you should ask that because I've been able to stab myself through the finger during operation 'remove splinter' and in terms of blood nada.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 10:15:44 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
but us women are lucky we get to be sexist misandrists because you boys let us.

I'm still laughing about a situation a few years ago. Two young women were over at a pool party. They were both young, slim, and attractive. There they sat for the better part of 2 hours talking about all the ways men were hateful. Then they excused themselves because they had to go bar hopping. They were hoping to meet some guys.

Myself and three other men chatted about it later. It was no surprise to us that the men they meet are so awful. God knows none of us would've even considered for a moment going out with them cute as they were. In fact, one of the men was single, of the right age bracket, and attractive to one of the girls. He laughed out right when I brought that up... "I wouldn't even want to go have drinks with her much less get involved romantically."

Sadly, karma is a real bitch and so no, women don't get away with this. It's not easy to escape the karmic price tag of your actions.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 10:36:11 AM

KneelforAnne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

I suggest this - think about who you want to be, what kind of person you want to be and what kind of person you want to be in the relationship. Get that concept firmly in mind and then look for people who help make you feel like that person. There are a lot of assholes, losers and idiots in the world, but there are also a lot of good, caring and well-meaning people who try, who truly try, to do the right thing.

This I am writing down.

It's the best thing I have read in a long time.

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Post #: 87

RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 10:49:05 AM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

...Long story short -- I met a guy I really liked (not in person yet, but we connected quickly through hours and hours of daily conversation). I started to really care for him, this scared me because now I was at risk of feeling hurt, I told myself that he really didn't care and it was best to get out now, broke it off... talked things through, worked it out for the most part, he no longer trusted me, I got scared again and broke things off again... and the same thing happened a third time. Only this time, he has since refused to talk to me, and has only spoken two sentences in which he specifically said "I have nothing more to say to you". ..

Ok ~ I have to modify my answer , based on the above.

I'd say that, no, I don't make a real connection until I've actually met someone and shared real life experience. There is no substitute for that.

You can enjoy flirting and getting to know one another, and you can feel a kind of connection that way, but there is no substitute for actually putting your real, 3-dimensional self out there.

It sounds like you want the rewards of commitment without giving very much of yourself, frankly.

In the case you outline above, I would have cut you off after the first time, probably. I'm trying to get more flexible and allow people to act out their insecurities to a greater degree, but there is a certain level of emotional drama past which I will not go.

If you burn me even slightly, I may forgive, but I won't forget. It's probably going to take time to establish trust again.

quote:

... The next guy I got involved with (this was 2 years ago, and he was the last guy before this recent guy) was emotionally abusive and manipulative in every way possible, but only after being sweet and wonderful for 2 months, at which point I had already begun to care deeply for him. The whole thing with him lasted for around 6 months, and it was bad in every way.

This kind of thing begs the question: do women have no bullshit meter at all?

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, HarderToBreathe, but reading these boards on a just semi-regular basis, one has to wonder.

I don't mean to sound harsh on you, though - it was bold of you to post this, and it makes for a good topic to think about.

Another reason I ask: I've never had a person change on me. I've never known anyone who was "sweet, until I got to know them better". That someone could bullshit me for that long is a foreign idea to me.

Maybe that's the crux of your question: perhaps guys will put up a false front longer to catch a woman. I dunno. Could be.

I think part of the problem is that you aren't properly getting to know these people in person first. Phone and e-mail, at least in these case, seem to be poor substitutes.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 10:56:55 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Sadly, karma is a real bitch and so no, women don't get away with this. It's not easy to escape the karmic price tag of your actions.

What a good example, thank you Jeff

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 11:01:10 AM

leadership527

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quote:

Jeptha said:
I think part of the problem is that you aren't properly getting to know these people in person first. Phone and e-mail, at least in these case, seem to be poor substitutes.

I agree. But the much larger part of the problem in my mind is that the OP really truly dislikes men -- as do a small handful of other posters on this thread. To me, it seems obvious that any woman holding this attitude is going to only run into men who don't give a rats ass what they think. This is the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy... karma made visible.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 11:12:54 AM

KneelforAnne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeptha

It sounds like you want the rewards of commitment without giving very much of yourself, frankly.

~FR~

I see this as being a way for her to keep control. She's the one calling it quits, and she's the one getting back together... until he isn't playing any longer and he's an ass (until she takes a deeper look at things like she is here.)

I'm not saying these men are people she should be submitting to (I'm not even sure where she puts herself on the D/s M/s etc. lineup) however...she is retaining the ultimate control here.

It's absolutely self preservation for her to break up with them before they break up with her--hurt them and make them go away before they hurt her.

She gets to control when it's over.

And, in a way.... it makes a little sense... break up with him and they try the getting back together to see what his REAL feelings are for her. I'm not saying it's right or good... but there is a bit of (strange?) logic to it.

Just my thoughts.

~

A question to the OP:
If they TOLD you their feelings for you, and you BELIEVED them... would you still want them?

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 11:21:04 AM

HarderToBreathe2

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quote:

But the much larger part of the problem in my mind is that the OP really truly dislikes men

No no no, you're entirely wrong here. I like men very much. It's just this one issue is something that I struggle with.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 11:28:48 AM

HarderToBreathe2

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quote:

All I care about is that they are happy and that nothing I do makes them ashamed of being who they are. I kinda wish more people were like that.

I shoot for this as well, although maybe not always successfully.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 11:35:14 AM

HarderToBreathe2

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quote:

perhaps guys will put up a false front longer to catch a woman.

Please no one jump on me for making what might sound like another generalization, but YES, lots of guys do this. Not all. But a lot of them. And they're very good at it.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 11:39:30 AM

HarderToBreathe2

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quote:

I'd say that, no, I don't make a real connection until I've actually met someone and shared real life experience. There is no substitute for that.

You can enjoy flirting and getting to know one another, and you can feel a kind of connection that way, but there is no substitute for actually putting your real, 3-dimensional self out there.

I think what happens is that you communicate with someone for an extended period of time via the internet/phone, and you FEEL like you know them. Maybe it's a false feeling. I agree that you can't really progress into a further connection without meeting in person, but sometimes it's not possible to meet right away. The internet has entirely flipped the dating world upside down in a very short period of time, and I'm not sure we really know how to handle it. It's a bunch of craziness, I tell you.

quote:

It sounds like you want the rewards of commitment without giving very much of yourself, frankly.

This is actually not true in the least.
It's so easy to make assumptions about someone when you don't have the whole picture, and it's impossible to give the whole picture in this forum.

(edited for typos)

< Message edited by HarderToBreathe2 -- 8/12/2009 11:42:31 AM >

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 11:51:35 AM

HarderToBreathe2

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quote:

~FR~

I see this as being a way for her to keep control. She's the one calling it quits, and she's the one getting back together... until he isn't playing any longer and he's an ass (until she takes a deeper look at things like she is here.)

I'm not saying these men are people she should be submitting to (I'm not even sure where she puts herself on the D/s M/s etc. lineup) however...she is retaining the ultimate control here.

It's absolutely self preservation for her to break up with them before they break up with her--hurt them and make them go away before they hurt her.

She gets to control when it's over.

And, in a way.... it makes a little sense... break up with him and they try the getting back together to see what his REAL feelings are for her. I'm not saying it's right or good... but there is a bit of (strange?) logic to it.

Just my thoughts.

~

A question to the OP:
If they TOLD you their feelings for you, and you BELIEVED them... would you still want them?

Thank you so much, Anne, for understanding and speaking up about it. You hit the nail right on the head.

As for your question...
It depends on what their feelings were, lol. But I assume you mean that if they did care and they told me they cared. The answer is yes, I would still want them, probably all the more. Where the problem arises, I think, is that I'm afraid it's a fleeting thing. I do believe he cares when he says he cares (unless his actions show otherwise), but in the beginning of new relationships, it doesn't take much for those feelings to flip off like a switch. So it's like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop (waiting for his feelings to change... once I like someone, my feelings don't up and change), never knowing what's going to cause it (or if there will even be a real reason for it at all).

Bottom line, I'm terrified of the unknown, and you're right Anne, I try to find some way to control it so as not to get hurt. (Of course, I end up getting hurt anyways.)

(edited to add)
Oh, one other important point. Just take this guy that I've been talking about for a case in point. I really DID believe that he cared. He said he did, he acted like he did, I felt it from him that he did. But then I had a moment of anxiety, because my inner voice started saying "Hey, this guy likes you right now, but that's all going to change soon enough... get out NOW before you get hurt all the more... you already like him too much as it is, it's stupid to get in any deeper." I'm sure we've all felt this before, right? And my feeling of anxiety was compounded by past experiences with shitty guys. And I reacted impulsively and poorly during the moment of fear -- the fear and anxiety were rising (in the moment), so I called things off and breathed a temporary sigh of relief because I had at least taken some control over the situation. But an hour later, I was like, "SHIT, what have I done, this is not good. I really like this guy and I allowed my fear to fuck it up."

Know what I mean?

< Message edited by HarderToBreathe2 -- 8/12/2009 12:01:11 PM >

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 1:24:41 PM

HarderToBreathe2

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I'd like to make a sincere public apology for generalizing and saying such nasty things about men. Someone just wrote me privately, and he eloquently put me in my place. And really, that's what I came here for, to learn. I can honestly say that I've learned many things about myself and about others from everything you guys have said. I hope I wasn't the only one who got something positive out of the discussion.

I'm going to work on my attitude.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I guess I never specified that when I was making those generalized statements about men, I was speaking only in the context of dating and relationships. I actually know many many good men who are kind and caring people (my dad, my brother, lots of others). I should've made that clear, but it didn't even occur to me to, so sorry about that.

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 1:32:21 PM

Phoenixpower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
Men are supposed to keep it all bottled up inside, whereas women can let their emotions show. This is probably one of the main reasons that men don't live as long, the stress of holding in those emotions eats them alive.

Really???

I always got told they don't tend to live as long because they have to put up with us...

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 1:37:53 PM

Lashra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
Men are supposed to keep it all bottled up inside, whereas women can let their emotions show. This is probably one of the main reasons that men don't live as long, the stress of holding in those emotions eats them alive.

Really???

I always got told they don't tend to live as long because they have to put up with us...

No we make their lives fuller and more exciting, its the damn taxman that they have to put up with...

~Lashra

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RE: Men and Emotions? - 8/12/2009 1:56:47 PM

VanityFix

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we (men) do not have a femminist movement, as women have been able to step out of traditional roles and do what they feel is right for them, men havnt had the same opertunity. with male bashing all over its even harder to step out of old programing of be a big tough asshole, if your being criticsized your going to go on the defencive. what i find important for men to do is embrace feeling emotion, allow to be weak. Same as if a woman wants to be a housewife she can still be a femminist, a male should be able to step outside a dominant social role(manly man type) and still be considered a "real man".

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