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"Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids have ... - 8/14/2009 8:29:18 AM

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It has been pointed out that the political threads have been a bit boring and single focused. I agree. Lets move to another topic.

There was a time when Iraq and Afghanistan casualties and the ongoing occupation by the USA of sovereign countries was a daily and ongoing focus of these forums. I even remember it being a major campaign issues providing a key distinction.

Apparently, neither "War" is over, or winding down. CASUALTIES

When is the last time anyones has see a focus on either Iraq or Afghanistan in the news, let alone on these threads? A filibuster proof majority in Congress, with the same party controlling the White House; withdraw should be QED. Do the same people who saw US intervention as a major embarrassment for the US now see these occupations as positive representations of their political position?

quote:

KABUL (Reuters) - A U.S. service member was killed as the deadliest month for foreign troops in the Afghanistan war drew to a close, the U.S. military said on Friday, with commanders vowing to continue the fight despite the toll.

The death in southern Afghanistan brought to 40 the number of U.S. troops killed in July, by far the heaviest monthly toll in the 8-year-old war. The worst previous month for U.S. forces was in September 2008, when 26 were killed.

AFGHAN WAR
Where is all the protest and indignation? We've already had the apology.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 8/14/2009 8:30:08 AM >

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 8:40:20 AM

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And where was your protest when these wars were launched?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 8:49:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

And where was your protest when these wars were launched?

Feel free to do the appropriate thread search - I recommended a nuclear solution with not one soldier on the ground, from September 12, 2001 to today. Granted, not a popular solution, but that was, and is, my position regarding any terrorist attack. I thought then, and think now, that not one drop of US soldier blood should be shed for those people; who have a 3000 year history of killing each other. When the towers fell, notice Saddam and any other of the regimes who held parties, that unless bin Laden and/or the other orchestrator's were delivered, a LOT of their sand would be turned into glass. And if bin Landen wasn't the perpetrator and/or planner, no matter. The action would have sufficed to insure we wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan today and not one soldier or the family of soldiers, would have had to suffer as they have since 9/11.

However, unlike Obama, I didn't run for President on the pacifist, USA is bad to intervene, "I'm Sorry!", I'll withdraw immediately platform.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 8:58:03 AM

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quote:

However, unlike Obama, I didn't run for President on the pacifist, USA is bad to intervene, "I'm Sorry!", I'll withdraw immediately platform.

I don't want to get sucked into this discussion, but I will just point out that Obama did say during that campaign he would be taking troops from Iraq to deploy in Afghanistan.

He also said nothing about withdrawing immediately. He did discuss an exit plan with Iraqi leaders, and if you want to count those months and go after it, enjoy.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:02:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Feel free to do the appropriate thread search - I recommended a nuclear solution with not one soldier on the ground, from September 12, 2001 to today. Granted, not a popular solution, but that was, and is, my position regarding any terrorist attack. I thought then, and think now, that not one drop of US soldier blood should be shed for those people; who have a 3000 year history of killing each other. When the towers fell, notice Saddam and any other of the regimes who held parties, that unless bin Laden and/or the other orchestrator's were delivered, a LOT of their sand would be turned into glass. And if bin Landen wasn't the perpetrator and/or planner, no matter. The action would have sufficed to insure we wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan today and not one soldier or the family of soldiers, would have had to suffer as they have since 9/11.

And killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the process, not to mention establishing the acceptability of using nuclear weapons.

quote:

However, unlike Obama, I didn't run for President on the pacifist, USA is bad to intervene, "I'm Sorry!", I'll withdraw immediately platform.

Right.

So while complaining he is not withdrawing forces from Iraq quickly enough you are also complaining about him bolstering forces in Afghanistan, all the while calling him a pacifist.

Somewhat contradictory, wouldn't you say?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:04:17 AM

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quote:

I don't want to get sucked into this discussion

Obviously, you are not alone.

quote:

He also said nothing about withdrawing immediately

No he said he's "end the war in 2009" "I'll END THIS WAR IN 2009" Candidate Obama Think I manipulated the voice and picture?

Also from the video; "If had been up to me, we wouldn't be in this war!" Well Mr. President, it IS up to you!

Where is the protest? Where is the outrage?

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:08:06 AM

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People have very short memories.

T

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:09:49 AM

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Well, I believe he said at one time immediately, and Hipshooter McCain said forever, I think they were making rhetorical flourishes..........

Then when they got to cases...............

I believe the extension past 2009 was a plea from the American commander in Iraq, it was public, it was a compromise.

Re Afghanistan:
Nobody has ever protested that even during fuckwads administration.

I was against out of the chute, talking in terms of Ku, Fu, Chi, Sui, Ka..................and that we didn't actually have the wherewithal (internally) to do this as a country.

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:10:32 AM

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quote:

And killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the process

ummm, interesting the hundreds of thousands oft cited killed by the prior administration, you now consider guilty people? Seems, based upon prior representations, both solutions generated the same end with one exception, no US troops killed. Yeah - stipulating to the old numbers that were used commonly that hundreds of thousands were killed, my solution sounds better and better.

quote:

all the while calling him a pacifist.

I called him a "pacifist"? Where? His actions versus the campaign call him a liar, not me. For contradiction watch the video: LIAR

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:11:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

People have very short memories.

T

Just trying to help out with that problem Term.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:17:03 AM

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So the logic of this thread is that: if you are lead down a certain path and a new leader can't find a quick way back from that path, all new deaths since the new leader took over have nothing at all to do with the old leader that initiated the whole thing?

Seriously who expected things to change when Obama kept a lot of the old advisors regarding this matter? I could have told you nothing would change months ago.

This just demonstrates the difficulty of continuity and the fact that the larger the organisation is the slower it is to move.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 8/14/2009 9:20:17 AM >

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:20:11 AM

Brain

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Palin Leaves Behind Mismanaged AK Health Care System - Hundreds Die Waiting For Care

Perhaps Sarah Palin made that ridiculous statement about "Obama Death Panels" because she knew this story was going to break -- it was happening in her own state, right under her nose.

State programs intended to help disabled and elderly Alaskans with daily life -- taking a bath, eating dinner, getting to the bathroom -- are so poorly managed, the state cannot assure the health and well-being of the people they are supposed to serve, a new federal review found.

The situation is so bad the federal government has forbidden the state to sign up new people until the state makes necessary improvements. No other state in the nation is under such a moratorium, according to a spokeswoman for the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.
　

Read Full Story at crooksandliars.com
http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/sarah-palin-leaving-behind-mismanaged

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:37:15 AM

Brain

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I'm getting sick and tired of people blaming Obama for all the troubles and problems the Republicans caused. Like with these conservative blue dog Democrats Obama can do whatever he wants. Yeah right!

(in reply to Brain)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:40:06 AM

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Leader ? Don't think we've had any since Teddy Roosevelt.

T

(in reply to FullCircle)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:42:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I'm getting sick and tired of people blaming Obama for all the troubles and problems the Republicans caused. Like with these conservative blue dog Democrats Obama can do whatever he wants. Yeah right!

Yeah, lets just blame him for what he and his party have power to change right now. Gee - That would be...lets see....EVERYTHING!

(in reply to Brain)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 9:58:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

ummm, interesting the hundreds of thousands oft cited killed by the prior administration, you now consider guilty people? Seems, based upon prior representations, both solutions generated the same end with one exception, no US troops killed. Yeah - stipulating to the old numbers that were used commonly that hundreds of thousands were killed, my solution sounds better and better.

What are you talking about?

No, because I have always been against the Iraq invasion.

What you are suggesting though would have wiped out hundreds of thousands more while killing many hundreds of thousands slowly from radiation poisoning.

quote:

I called him a "pacifist"? Where?

Ohhh, I don't know. Let me do some in-depth research.

How about post #3:

However, unlike Obama, I didn't run for President on the pacifist, USA is bad to intervene, "I'm Sorry!", I'll withdraw immediately platform.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 10:03:01 AM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Palin Leaves Behind Mismanaged AK Health Care System - Hundreds Die Waiting For Care

Perhaps Sarah Palin made that ridiculous statement about "Obama Death Panels" because she knew this story was going to break -- it was happening in her own state, right under her nose.

State programs intended to help disabled and elderly Alaskans with daily life -- taking a bath, eating dinner, getting to the bathroom -- are so poorly managed, the state cannot assure the health and well-being of the people they are supposed to serve, a new federal review found.

The situation is so bad the federal government has forbidden the state to sign up new people until the state makes necessary improvements. No other state in the nation is under such a moratorium, according to a spokeswoman for the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.
　

Read Full Story at crooksandliars.com
http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/sarah-palin-leaving-behind-mismanaged

You know, I don't like Palin and I'm for health care, but what does either of those topics have to do with this thread?

(in reply to Brain)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 10:05:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

ummm, interesting the hundreds of thousands oft cited killed by the prior administration, you now consider guilty people? Seems, based upon prior representations, both solutions generated the same end with one exception, no US troops killed. Yeah - stipulating to the old numbers that were used commonly that hundreds of thousands were killed, my solution sounds better and better.

What are you talking about?

No, because I have always been against the Iraq invasion.

What you are suggesting though would have wiped out hundreds of thousands more while killing many hundreds of thousands slowly from radiation poisoning.

That assumes those in power wouldn't have turned over the 9/11 perpetrators, or if you believe conspiracy theories, gave evidence of US self flagellation. However if they did there would have been zero deaths, either of "innocents" or US troops. Again - seems to be a better alliterative, albeit in hindsight, than the path President Bush pursued, and is being followed to the letter by the current Administration of President Obama as well as the Democratic majority Congress.

Appreciating that since the color is not 'blue' you too are a 'hawk' on Afghanistan and Iraq. Hey - just don't look in any mirrors and you won't even notice the hypocrisy of that position.

quote:

I called him a "pacifist"? Where?

quote:

Ohhh, I don't know. Let me do some in-depth research.

How about post #3:

However, unlike Obama, I didn't run for President on the pacifist, USA is bad to intervene, "I'm Sorry!", I'll withdraw immediately platform.

Now see, you just don't have the ability to recognize sarcasm when you see it. Obviously based on all the reference he's a war monger who, with the ability to change the current status quo, instead escalates the war in Afghanistan and has no withdraw plan for Iraq. Sorry if you didn't understand. Next time I'll put it as 'pacifist' to help you out.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 8/14/2009 10:06:53 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 10:06:21 AM

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Personally I find ascribing those deaths to Obama to be somewhat distasteful.

Especially so when it was mainly down to the Bush administration.

I'm still waiting for the 'truth' to come out about Saddam Hussein's terrible crimes against his own people. I'm not talking about allegations, assumptions, rumours, I'm talking about the TRUTH. Where is the justification for destroying the peace and stability of Iraq under Saddam Hussein?

I'm also interested as to why there is military action in Afghanistan and why it is continuing. I'm no great fan of the Taliban, these are people who are seriously deluded, but they were hurting nobody but themselves and the people around them. Afghanistan is one of the poorest countries in the world, its people are among the hardest, and they live in terrain which is the most inhospitable in the world. The might of the Soviet Army didn't do much here, the Brits failed, and so too will the Americans.

Now the influence of the Taliban in Pakistan is another story and this is something which needs looking at, but I'm curious as to the reasons behind military intervention in Afghanistan.

As to why this is continuing I think it's perfectly clear there is no visible solution. It's kind of like when Britain had troops in Northern Ireland and was dealing with the IRA (funny how the Americans weren't that interested in terrorism back then isn't it?) and I now see that the Americans have got themselves almost in the self same situation.

'And it's true we are immune
When fact is fiction and TV reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die'

U2 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'

Edited for typos

< Message edited by stella41b -- 8/14/2009 10:09:17 AM >

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Hey, Obama, What do you say - How many kids h... - 8/14/2009 10:08:24 AM

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One of the reason you could not use nuclear weapons Mernbeth is that it would draw an immediate response from the other nuclear poweres of the world. I agree with both the war in Iraq and the war in afghanistan.However I would not agree with them if the price for initiating them was to instigate a third world war.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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