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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 7:14:35 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs




P.S. - I also wonder why it never strikes anyone except me as being similar to race superiority arguements made in the past around natural order.



Once again, my post earlier on this thread. You are not alone in your thinking...
"Sorry but in this day and age, to think that any sex, breed, race, religeon, color, animal, etc. is supreme over another is beyond silly. And that's being kind."

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 7:22:31 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		This why i despise femininism; the hatred/disrespect for Men. Damnation; we're equal; everyone has s'thing to contribute.

candystripper

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 7:25:25 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, maybe not EVERYONE.

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

everyone has s'thing to contribute.


(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 7:29:23 AM   
B1gbear


Posts: 81
Joined: 5/7/2004
Status: offline 		Hmmm....a Dominant woman trying to say that her way is the natural order of things and that everyone really feels and thinks like she does??? Holds back a chuckle as I mumble something about insecurities in one's choices in life and need to gain affirmation through convincing others to think like she does.....then clears my throat and continues.

Ummm......ya......I'd say that's a great big NO.

(in reply to Aimtoplease101)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 7:36:28 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

This why i despise femininism; the hatred/disrespect for Men. Damnation; we're equal; everyone has s'thing to contribute.

candystripper


Not all Feminist hate/disrespect men thats a very big misconception and not all feminists are lesbians either. I'm a feminist, I dont hate/disrespect men and Im not a lesbian. I believe everyone is equal, but I also know in reality that with the laws of the US we aren't all equal, not yet.

Lashra

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 7:39:08 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		candy i agree with you... i do not agree with feminism... which is ok... they don't agree with me.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 9:54:12 AM   
cloudboy


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One's world view is usually a self serving one.

(in reply to Aimtoplease101)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 9:58:51 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

I've been reading Elise Sutton's articles concerning her theories on female supremacy, and why she believes it represents the natural order.

From what I can determine from communities such as collarme.com, however, there appear to be as many, if not more, submissive females as dominant ones out there. I don't find Ms. Sutton's explanation of submissive females as anomalies/ anachronisms particularly persuasive.

What's your take on this topic?

ATP


Weirdly enough, I like Elise Sutton's site, particularly because of the section on BDSM Role play scenerios, which is not something that is generally covered as a sub topic on your average web site that talks about kink.

While I may not philosophically agree with her perspectives on female supremecy, I find the information to have a nice tone and not be too 'FemDommeGoddessComplex" for my tastes, which I find is the tone problem with a lot of other fem domme sites.

I particularly like her advise to married vanilla women who wish to bring the submissive out in their vanilla husbands. I think that section on how to psychoanalyze your man is pretty interesting.

Again, while I don't agree with her core philosophy, as far as a website goes and as we know our milage varies greatly with what's available out there, I'd put her site in my personal top 10.

Kassie]

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Aimtoplease101)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 10:00:04 AM   
strongnsubmissiv


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		.


"All generalizations are false."


:P



_____________________________

*** Strong and submissive are not contradictions ***

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 12:29:10 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

This why i despise femininism; the hatred/disrespect for Men. Damnation; we're equal; everyone has s'thing to contribute.

candystripper


Feminism isn't a monolith belief system.

I'm a radical feminist. I certainly don't hate or disrespect men in any way. If anything I'm harder on women than I am men.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 12:36:19 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

candy i agree with you... i do not agree with feminism... which is ok... they don't agree with me.


Again this weird idea that feminism is some monolith system.

Its just as incorrect a belief as claming that Christianity or Democrats or Conservatives are one system of belief, practice, theory, and application.

At the risk of starting an argument I'm going to add that I find it especially funny when women say they don't like feminism since, in my opinion, feminism over the past century and a half is what has given most women the education and the legal rights to be able to voice such opinions at all. Before then it was really just the very elite or outspoken women who could be educated enough, make enough money or even have enough time to have opinions and express them beyond their private home.

I'm sorry if you or candystripper have had negative experiences with people calling themselves feminists.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to angelic)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 1:17:21 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I'm sorry if you or candystripper have had negative experiences with people calling themselves feminists.


I think it often boils down to what someone wants to do in the first place. After all I've had bad experiences with blacks, whites and orientals. I've been given a bad time by people claiming to be Christians, Jews, communists, goreans, unionists, feminists, masons, and a long list including one flat earther. I won't let those individuals dictate to me what I believe or accept.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 1:22:23 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Look "Everyone" knows the Male is the Dominant species...ok *smile*

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 1:25:07 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

candy i agree with you... i do not agree with feminism... which is ok... they don't agree with me.


Again this weird idea that feminism is some monolith system.

Its just as incorrect a belief as claming that Christianity or Democrats or Conservatives are one system of belief, practice, theory, and application.

At the risk of starting an argument I'm going to add that I find it especially funny when women say they don't like feminism since, in my opinion, feminism over the past century and a half is what has given most women the education and the legal rights to be able to voice such opinions at all. Before then it was really just the very elite or outspoken women who could be educated enough, make enough money or even have enough time to have opinions and express them beyond their private home.

I'm sorry if you or candystripper have had negative experiences with people calling themselves feminists.


it isn't that i have had negative experiences necessarily with people calling themselves femnists... i feel badly that because of feminism, Men in this country do NOT get a fair shake in court (DUCKS from the flames i'm going to get for THAT comment)... children who are missing out on the 'other' parent (80% fathers)... women that go into court screaming abuse where none existed or where it existed under a BDSM life and she got ticked off and suddenly screamed abuse (NOT in every case, but many)... (i am NOT talking about true abuse, here btw)... i am speaking of women being women and KNOWING that the courts will, side with the woman. i am a paralegal and i've seen it first hand...

*steps off her soapbox*


_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 1:55:48 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

candy i agree with you... i do not agree with feminism... which is ok... they don't agree with me.


Again this weird idea that feminism is some monolith system.

Its just as incorrect a belief as claming that Christianity or Democrats or Conservatives are one system of belief, practice, theory, and application.

At the risk of starting an argument I'm going to add that I find it especially funny when women say they don't like feminism since, in my opinion, feminism over the past century and a half is what has given most women the education and the legal rights to be able to voice such opinions at all. Before then it was really just the very elite or outspoken women who could be educated enough, make enough money or even have enough time to have opinions and express them beyond their private home.

I'm sorry if you or candystripper have had negative experiences with people calling themselves feminists.


it isn't that i have had negative experiences necessarily with people calling themselves femnists... i feel badly that because of feminism, Men in this country do NOT get a fair shake in court (DUCKS from the flames i'm going to get for THAT comment)... children who are missing out on the 'other' parent (80% fathers)... women that go into court screaming abuse where none existed or where it existed under a BDSM life and she got ticked off and suddenly screamed abuse (NOT in every case, but many)... (i am NOT talking about true abuse, here btw)... i am speaking of women being women and KNOWING that the courts will, side with the woman. i am a paralegal and i've seen it first hand...

*steps off her soapbox*



How does this relate to feminism?

I could imagine there are branches of feminism where such court cases are applauded but you also added "women being women" above and that suggests it isn't feminism but some women you've seen abusing a legal system. I'm sure lots of people abuse the legal system and some folks are victims of it but I don't see how it connects to feminism.

Unless you think that giving women the right to seek divorce or to be able to testify in courts = women abusing the system.

I mean, do you think you could be a paralegal if feminists in the past had fought for your rights to a higher education or for hiring of women? Your very career is an outgrowth of feminist ideas combined with capitalist goals of more people working so they can spend more money.

You have every right to be angry when you see injustice happen and you have the right to try and get the laws changed but I don't believe you'd have that right if it wasn't for feminism in the first place.

I just don't understand where blaming feminism comes from because it makes no sense to me any more than I understand blaming any "group" of people.

I'm sure I do blame groups when I get upset even if I try not to so I'm in no way claiming to be better or absolutely perfect. Divine knows I'm not.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 2:03:00 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		TammyJo, with all due respect... and i truly respect Your opinion... if Wwe disagree, Wwe disagree.

i believe 100% that feminism is the reason Men today get the short end of the stick most of the time in court. As an example... a woman gets in her BMW and runs her husband over for cheating... not once but twice... claims it was an 'oops' i didn't mean to... she got slapped on the wrist for making an 'oops'. Now, reverse that... had it been a Man... He'd spend the rest of his life in prision... (just my opinion).

i am a paralegal by choice, btw. Not because of a 'glass' ceiling.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 2:05:56 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		the Feminist group is one of the largest political groups in this nation today... That's why i blame the 'group'... please don't misunderstand... i am not dissing Wwomen here... i am totally disgusted with what Oour country has become... it has lost it's sense of fairness

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to angelic)
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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 2:11:37 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

TammyJo, with all due respect... and i truly respect Your opinion... if Wwe disagree, Wwe disagree.

i believe 100% that feminism is the reason Men today get the short end of the stick most of the time in court. As an example... a woman gets in her BMW and runs her husband over for cheating... not once but twice... claims it was an 'oops' i didn't mean to... she got slapped on the wrist for making an 'oops'. Now, reverse that... had it been a Man... He'd spend the rest of his life in prision... (just my opinion).

i am a paralegal by choice, btw. Not because of a 'glass' ceiling.


Cite please. If you are talking about Clara Harris, I don't think 20 years is a slap on the wrist. Also she was driving a Mercedes... better handling and suspension.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 2:14:19 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

TammyJo, with all due respect... and i truly respect Your opinion... if Wwe disagree, Wwe disagree.

i believe 100% that feminism is the reason Men today get the short end of the stick most of the time in court. As an example... a woman gets in her BMW and runs her husband over for cheating... not once but twice... claims it was an 'oops' i didn't mean to... she got slapped on the wrist for making an 'oops'. Now, reverse that... had it been a Man... He'd spend the rest of his life in prision... (just my opinion).

i am a paralegal by choice, btw. Not because of a 'glass' ceiling.


Cite please. If you are talking about Clara Harris, I don't think 20 years is a slap on the wrist. Also she was driving a Mercedes... better handling and suspension.


let me see if i can find this, Sir... and You may be right... it may have been a Mercedes... please allow me to get back to You on that subject. (If i'm wrong i'll eat crow and admit it)...

< Message edited by angelic -- 2/24/2006 2:16:30 PM >

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 2/24/2006 2:31:26 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		http://glennsacks.com/in_defense_of_david_harris.htm...

20 years for a murder might to some be a 'slap on the wrist', Sir... (still searching, btw)

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 40
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