SI, childhood abuse and S&M (Full Version)

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mixielicous -> SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 6:27:27 PM)

I was just reading prinsexx's post about emotional masochism and her curiosities to what it means to you and how you deal with it and how it parallels with your intrests in S&M

I began to read a few replies from people who had abusive mothers and how that leads them to completely avoid emotional masochism if at all possible.

I did not have an intentionally emotionally abusive mother, but I was a "cutter" as a teen (Havent participated in major SI in about 12 years now)

I was a self mutilator and I really enjoy physical masochism. Nothing "major" (serious cutting, intentionally drawing blood) but I do take great pleasure in the endorphin rush, sub space, and all the other perks of submitting yourself to moderate pain at the hand of a dominant man.

If you enjoy (or maybe not, but still partake) in masochism, were you a cutter? Abused? Witnessed abuse?
If you enjoy sadism, were you abused?

I understand how the two easily parallel, but I am very curious as to what extent.




IrishMist -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 6:29:50 PM)

quote:

If you enjoy (or maybe not, but still partake) in masochism, were you a cutter? Abused? Witnessed abuse?

No..was not abused, did not self abuse, never witnessed abuse as a child....but, I am a hard core masochist with violent tendencies. [:)]




DarkPossession -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 7:10:09 PM)

You pose an interesting question, one that I have asked myself before many times. Did my childhood experiences, finally lead to me to this lifestyle?
I did have an abusive Mother, she was an emotional sadist, looking back it wasn't until I discovered BDSM in its full context ( as opposed to viewing it as kinky sex in porn and held no attraction to me what so ever) did I acknowledge and wonder why I finally found something that fits me.
Journies of self discovery lead to the oddest places and I now find physical pain a release as well as sexual arousal, I did cut myself a few times growing up but viewed it as wrong, a guilty secret, so I stopped it. The emotional abuse lasted until my Mother got dementia, even afterwards she could still sting me. I went through the whole gammit of " she can't hurt me unless I let her" and have wondered why I let her for so long. I wasn't the only affected either, she did this to all my siblings as well as my Father, who on reflection was very submissive to her Dominance. It confused the hell out of me until I started to compart it within myself and over the years I can now see I was always attracted to Dominant Men.
Was this because of the dynamic I grew up with, could well be... wanting that strength in my Father and not getting it and looking for it elsewhere. Probably could find the holes in all of this quite easily, but the way I look at it now is this - I am happy serving, being submissive, content to let someone take the lead, embrace the physicality of SM and feel nutured and safe within it. It feels like it completes me in every way.. does my childhood have bearing, probably does, but does that mean I shy away from it and tell myself its 'wrong'.. Not in the least, whatever lead me here, satisfies my craving, scratches the itch that was there for so long..




sexisubi -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 7:32:16 PM)

as a young teen i was in an abusive relationship. however my masochistic tendancies started and bdsm fantasies came much before that. in fact i had a wonderful child hood, and even though -everyone- is a little crazy or has their quarks i would say i am pretty down to earth and normal.

i will also say that sometimes people look for a master to fix something they are not doing right in their life.. or something they want to fix. in reality, even though some dont want to realize it, the master is just showing one what they had all along... one just needs a little push... in any realtionship the plan is to figure out the other person, getting inside their head and finding out about who they are and where their passions may lie. in bdsm i feel that connection is stronger, and a lot of trust and changes happen within those relationships. i guess thats why i like it... i think everyone asks the question why do i like this lifestyle, dont we?




Missokyst -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 8:27:57 PM)

yes yes no yes.
Results may vary.




peachgirl -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 8:59:07 PM)

I feel that my childhood had no effect on any of my likes/loves/dislikes in bdsm.
BUT I don't do humiliation because of verbal/emotional abuse as a child.
I'm really good at compartmentalizing.




BKSir -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 9:16:45 PM)

Well, I was abused as a young child by my father, as was my mother, but that all ended when I was around 7 when she, and a shotgun asked him politely to leave the house and not return.  Did it affect my likes and dislikes in this lifestyle.  Most definitely.  But not in a manner like you discuss.  Just the opposite actually.  I don't hit, I don't even like to spank, and god have mercy on anyone that would even try to lift a hand to M or the pet.  I refuse to be the kind of person my father was.  I won't strike my pet, I sure as hell won't strike M.  I did that once, and there were somewhat extenuating circumstances.  Wisdom teeth had been bothering me, and by bothering I mean sending me into literal insanity for about 3 months and it was 2 days before they were about to come out, my mind was hazy from painkillers and he had been pressing every button I had that day, on purpose I think.  He's long since forgiven me for it, but I still haven't forgiven myself.  I feel that, in that moment, I was my father, something I swore I would never ever be.

I also don't do humiliation in the sense of verbal abuse.  I just can't do it.  I value the people around me very much, or they wouldn't be around me at all.  Why would I wish to call my pet anything derogatory?  That would reflect badly on me I should think.  To call him worthless is to say that I would want a worthless pet.  I certainly would not want that.  I want a pet that everyone looks at and says "Damn!  I wish he was mine!"  That doesn't mean that occasionally he doesn't need to be reminded of his place though.  But I never say things like "You disappointed me."  It's always in terms of "What you did is very disappointing, and I'm upset that you did that."  Not "You (as a person <implied>) upset me."  Only "I'm very disappointed with what your actions."  Again, what master/mistress would ever want a disappointing or upsetting pet?  Once more, sure as hell not I.

Kind of funny this was brought up now, as I was just discussing things along these lines with someone in Cmail.  




susie -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 10:09:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

If you enjoy (or maybe not, but still partake) in masochism, were you a cutter? Abused? Witnessed abuse?

No..was not abused, did not self abuse, never witnessed abuse as a child....but, I am a hard core masochist with violent tendencies. [:)]


Same for me. No abuse and brought up in a loving family who I am still incredibly close to.




HeavansKeeper -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/20/2009 11:17:02 PM)

I have a sadistic side, though it's more a mental thing than physical. I prefer humiliation and objectification to delivering physical pain.

I was raised in a very classy way... For me, the words and acts to humiliate are attractive, I assume, because they are so foreign and exotic. I come from a background where you simply do not hear "cum guzzling cunt". Ever.




spookyfe -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 12:52:17 AM)

i had no abuse at all and i had an odd way in how i played as a child my mum was always worried by what my barbies went through.   i did howerver for a long time hair pull not seriously but the feeling was a release when i found my master i stopped after the first session never to repeat it.  i am a masochist and love it




NyDaddysGirl -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 3:54:57 AM)

Yes, I suffered physical, psychological, emotional/verbal abuse from my mother, self-abused and engaged in very risky behaviors.  I don't know if that was the catalyst for me or if the two coincidentally coincided with my submission and/or masochism but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it played a major part.  I often wonder about that but ultimately have decided it doesn't matter what path led me to what I am, I'm me and I'm good with that.

It was a similar environment to what DarkPossession describes except that I was her target and my sisters were spared most of her wrath until I moved out of the house.  Then they were targeted.  My father rarely argued with her and when he did, I just wanted him to put her in her place, finally and end her reign of terror.  It never happened.  Unlike DarkPossession, I no longer have any kind of relationship with her and I'm fine with that.

I don't mean to hijack, but it's interesting that you focused on the abusive mother as opposed to saying abusive parent.  I wonder if that plays a significant part, as mothers are viewed to be nurturers.




Prinsexx -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 4:41:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl
.

I don't mean to hijack, but it's interesting that you focused on the abusive mother as opposed to saying abusive parent.  I wonder if that plays a significant part, as mothers are viewed to be nurturers.

Hopefully this is not a hijack..
I had a life changing night one night. I was in a Women's Refuge (bless the system). There were four of us. Kids all tucked up and asleep.
One wife of a heroin dealer. Front teeth missing. Years of addiction. Getting clean and trying to get away.
One pimp's girlfriend...who got pregnant by him and visciously attacked by him with a knife as she was trying to leave.
One East End girl, beaten by a macho Greek guy whom she had foud out was married.
And me. Broken wrist through cleaning on hands and knees with the nozzle of the hoover. Fleeing from an Italian (now dead).
The one thing we had in common apart from the abuse? Crazy abusive mothers.
Now we were also all very submissive. Ok don't flame me. Non of these were Master slave or domiant submissive reationships in the bdsm sense. Bt we were all submissive, into being perfect wives and mothers, into serving our men. In other words it was most definitely that the men were abusive. No blame on us other than it looking like we had failed to get out in time.
BUT the other thing that we had in common was not an abusive relationship with a father (figure). My father was a pure gentleman. No. The one thing we had in common was our desire to be better women than our mothers. As we each told our stories we all shared that same wish: that our mothers would have been normal. And that we had therefore to prove ourselves as perfect women to macho typre men.
Not so much about childhood abuse and S & M but abusive mothes and trying to be perfect women.





LillyoftheVally -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 4:45:26 AM)

To me there is no link, actually I am focusing more on your cutting example, I used to get a strange reaction to it, but it was less the pain than something else, I am not really at all masochistic now.

I still find the concept of emotional masochism confusing therefore can't really state my point there




Missokyst -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 9:13:47 AM)

I would say your reaction may have been calm.  I never got pain from cutting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

To me there is no link, actually I am focusing more on your cutting example, I used to get a strange reaction to it, but it was less the pain than something else, I am not really at all masochistic now.

I still find the concept of emotional masochism confusing therefore can't really state my point there




mixielicous -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 10:17:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

My father was a pure gentleman. No. The one thing we had in common was our desire to be better women than our mothers. As we each told our stories we all shared that same wish: that our mothers would have been normal. And that we had therefore to prove ourselves as perfect women to macho typre men.
Not so much about childhood abuse and S & M but abusive mothes and trying to be perfect women.

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Prin- this strikes a chord with me. I was never abused mentally or physically by my mother, I did watch her get beaten and belittled though when I was entering puberty. I dont really think this is the correlation with nurture and submission for me though.

I hate to admit it, but I never admired my mother. I loved her very dearly, but I viewed her as weak, I suppose. She had 6 children, with 4 different men. No man was ever able to get her to commit to them. She abandoned my 3 older siblings with their father (and the only one that she had ever married). At a very young age, while she was still with whom I consider my father (not biological) she taught me a word: scape goat. I was very young, maybe, 3. She taught me this word, and I realized she was trying to encourage me down a different path than she had taken.

While I only witnessed abuse from the father of my youngest brother, I know that mine had violent tendencies toward her while I was a toddler. I also know my biological father was, to put it bluntly, psychotic.

But because of this non traditional upbringing (I was one of the few raised in a "broken" home), the fact that she refused to marry, was probably a little slutty, made it hard for me to respect her. She knew she was a scape goat, she could not survive with out it though, she was in a codependent relationship with emotional suffering.

My desire to serve comes very strongly to be a better wife and mother than mine was. She left my life when I was 12, and I was sent to live with my father and my brother. I had the few lessons she had given me. My father never instructed or guided me other than, "dont bother the law and I wont bother you". I was cutting shortly after this. My SI ended shortly after my first S&M experience at 14 (I also started smoking pot at this age).

I apologize for my scattered thoughts.




mixielicous -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 10:19:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I would say your reaction may have been calm.  I never got pain from cutting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

To me there is no link, actually I am focusing more on your cutting example, I used to get a strange reaction to it, but it was less the pain than something else, I am not really at all masochistic now.

I still find the concept of emotional masochism confusing therefore can't really state my point there



I also never felt pain from cutting. I would do it to see blood, the only proof I had that I was alive. It was also the only way I knew to comfort myself and make the tears stop (I was very depressed teen).

I would feel floods of relief and satisfaction, and a bit numb (physically as well as mentally)




lally2 -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 3:03:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl
.

. The one thing we had in common was our desire to be better women than our mothers. As we each told our stories we all shared that same wish: that our mothers would have been normal. And that we had therefore to prove ourselves as perfect women to macho typre men.
Not so much about childhood abuse and S & M but abusive mothes and trying to be perfect women.




this rings a bell with me too - i have spent my life trying to be a better mother, person, lover, human being than my own mother who was emotionally abusive to me.  i have devoted my life to doing everything opposite to how my mother would do something.  the worst thing anyone can say to me is that i remind them of my mother!

i dont do emotional masochism on any level - it used to make me curl up in a ball and cry.  now i just get seriously pissed off!

but ive never cut myself - i did go the anorexic route though.




NyDaddysGirl -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 3:26:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

The one thing we had in common was our desire to be better women than our mothers. As we each told our stories we all shared that same wish: that our mothers would have been normal. And that we had therefore to prove ourselves as perfect women to macho typre men.
Not so much about childhood abuse and S & M but abusive mothes and trying to be perfect women.


I hadn't really outwardly noticed that until your pointed it out Prinsexx but I also went through a series of abusive relationships and trying to be not only better than my mother, but the complete opposite of her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

this rings a bell with me too - i have spent my life trying to be a better mother, person, lover, human being than my own mother who was emotionally abusive to me.  i have devoted my life to doing everything opposite to how my mother would do something.  the worst thing anyone can say to me is that i remind them of my mother!

i dont do emotional masochism on any level - it used to make me curl up in a ball and cry.  now i just get seriously pissed off!

but ive never cut myself - i did go the anorexic route though.


That's about the worst thing anyone can say to me as well.

I cut once.  It was actually more like carving than cutting and it didn't hurt.  It was very calming, as was all the self mutilation I engaged in.

Edited to correct a spelling error




Prinsexx -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 3:40:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

My father was a pure gentleman. No. The one thing we had in common was our desire to be better women than our mothers. As we each told our stories we all shared that same wish: that our mothers would have been normal. And that we had therefore to prove ourselves as perfect women to macho typre men.
Not so much about childhood abuse and S & M but abusive mothes and trying to be perfect women.




Prin- this strikes a chord with me. I was never abused mentally or physically by my mother, I did watch her get beaten and belittled though when I was entering puberty. I dont really think this is the correlation with nurture and submission for me though.

I hate to admit it, but I never admired my mother. I loved her very dearly, but I viewed her as weak, I suppose. She had 6 children, with 4 different men. No man was ever able to get her to commit to them. She abandoned my 3 older siblings with their father (and the only one that she had ever married). At a very young age, while she was still with whom I consider my father (not biological) she taught me a word: scape goat. I was very young, maybe, 3. She taught me this word, and I realized she was trying to encourage me down a different path than she had taken.

While I only witnessed abuse from the father of my youngest brother, I know that mine had violent tendencies toward her while I was a toddler. I also know my biological father was, to put it bluntly, psychotic.

But because of this non traditional upbringing (I was one of the few raised in a "broken" home), the fact that she refused to marry, was probably a little slutty, made it hard for me to respect her. She knew she was a scape goat, she could not survive with out it though, she was in a codependent relationship with emotional suffering.

My desire to serve comes very strongly to be a better wife and mother than mine was. She left my life when I was 12, and I was sent to live with my father and my brother. I had the few lessons she had given me. My father never instructed or guided me other than, "dont bother the law and I wont bother you". I was cutting shortly after this. My SI ended shortly after my first S&M experience at 14 (I also started smoking pot at this age).

I apologize for my scattered thoughts.

No need to apologhise in my book for anything stated from prsonal experience.
I understand exactly how one can love one's mother yet not like her.
Love has the upper hand because it is unconditional. But nevertheless there is an underlying awareness, at leat for me, of all the ways I would 'do it' better. Especially in relationship to men.
In the past I have served men (inside and ouside of bdsm dynamics) so well, indeed I have served them beyond my own well being.
This may look like I allowed myself to be ab-used. But for me it was fired by my deep desire to be a better woman than my mother and NOT because I learned abusive relationship from my relationship with my father. My father never raised a hand, spoke an unkind word, swore or even lost his temper. I adored him.
In fact my desire to be better than my mother and my adoration of my fater you could say was the childhoos route to my M/s and S/m.




Prinsexx -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 3:43:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl
.

. The one thing we had in common was our desire to be better women than our mothers. As we each told our stories we all shared that same wish: that our mothers would have been normal. And that we had therefore to prove ourselves as perfect women to macho typre men.
Not so much about childhood abuse and S & M but abusive mothes and trying to be perfect women.




this rings a bell with me too - i have spent my life trying to be a better mother, person, lover, human being than my own mother who was emotionally abusive to me.  i have devoted my life to doing everything opposite to how my mother would do something.  the worst thing anyone can say to me is that i remind them of my mother!

i dont do emotional masochism on any level - it used to make me curl up in a ball and cry.  now i just get seriously pissed off!

but ive never cut myself - i did go the anorexic route though.

I was anorexic also. But worked that one out also. That had to do with my refusal to accept food from my mother. It had little or nothng do do with wanting to alter my self-image.




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