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[Poll]

Females Treated Differently Than Males

Female tops with no experience have more opportunities than males

46% (23)

Male tops with no experience have more opportunities than females.

6% (3)

The genders have the same opportunities.

0% (0)

A new male Master is challenged in definition more than a female.

30% (15)

A new Mistress is challenged in definition more than a male.

10% (5)

The genders have the same challenges.

8% (4)

Total Votes : 50

(last vote on : 10/20/2009 8:01:40 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 5:54:43 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I'm going to admit that I have probably written the options very poorly. The idea for this poll came from this thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_2808362/tm.htm .

After watching threads here for a couple of years as well as what I've observed in the meatlife BDSM community, it is My opinion that we are tougher on males coming into the scene than females. New female tops have many more opportunities for play, dynamics, etc than the male counterparts. From the countless threads that we've had on the defition of the difference between Master and Dominant, it seems to Me that folks have a stronger opinion of that when applied to males, rather than females. (In other words, a female who is new doesn't get nearly the flack for calling herself Mistress as a male does for calling himself Master when they lack experience.)

I'd like to ask that we don't get into the definition debate here. This is a poll only about what you have observed either here on the site, in the real world, or both. Any explanation of why you voted the way you did would be appreciated.

Thank you for your time and participation.

Edited to add..... This is a poll with multiple selection, as the first three options are specifically about tops, while the second three options apply to the Master/Mistress thing.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 9/23/2009 5:56:11 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 6:29:25 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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LP, I don't think the multiple selection thing was activated, it's only allowing one vote.

I do agree with both items you brought up. I can't remember anyone confronting a woman for using the title "mistress", and just as it's quite a bit easier for a woman to find a sexual partner, I believe it's much easier for one to find someone to perform kink with.

I don't expect either of these to change any time soon.

_____________________________

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Let go it's harder holding on
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~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 2

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 6:58:28 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Simply because there are so few female tops compared to male bottoms, a female top is going to have more opportunities to play. Even if she fucks up royally, and the other male subs know about it, they will still let her try on them just because they're so desperate for play.

Yes it's harder for a male, top or bottom, to get someone to give him a chance. Females, tops or bottoms, can always get laid, always get play.

Now if you go beyond casual beat and fucks, then it is equal in terms of finding a quality relationship with someone you are highly compatible with. But sure, just for a night of fun, women always can get that.

I don't think it's top/bottom where the lines are, I think it's gender.

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Post #: 3

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 8:17:44 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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In addition to the above posters, I think there's something about women being perceived as 'more approachable' & there's something about guys being easily perceived as 'creepy', especially in the dom / top roles / headspaces . .. . .

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 9/23/2009 8:18:18 PM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 8:33:40 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
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I agree with what has been said thus far. I think Des nailed it because it isn't just in our little world that guys get a sideways glance while the gals can kind of get a pass.

At our dungeon, I see more newbie "Top-spot" ladies get a line of willing guinea pig males than the other way around. There are several guys who have approached me, and are willing to bottom for me, and want me to use equipment that I haven't been trained to use. I tell them no, but they always ask if I'm "sure" because any beating (even with an unknown implement) is better than none in their world.

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(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 5

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 8:53:08 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

In matters sexual...women have more opportunities and are challenged less...that's my observation at any rate, but never having been a woman I couldn't say for sure.

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Post #: 6

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 9:09:52 PM

HatesParisHilton

Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
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I think the opportunities come from perception, and on the basis of the answers given as per poll %'s, it's clear the perceptions vary!

thus it was a GOOD poll and well written! well DONE!

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Post #: 7

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/23/2009 11:04:47 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Allow Me to thank everyone who has participated thus far.

Level, thank you for bringing the multiple vote option not being applied. I have corrected that error.

Des, I do agree with your assessment of why we experience the phenomenon. I honestly don't know what the ratio is between male and female, but I do tend to think that is a huge contributor, if not the primary one.

Kia, I'm not sure about the approachability factor. I do know that applies to female bottoms, as many will often feel more safe with a female top due to various issues. There are a number of male bottoms that I've met over the years that have had concerns about approaching anyone due to factors such as shyness, etc.

Red, I absolutely agree with your comments. It's been My personal experience to see what you have described.

Arpig, it can be something that is difficult to see from the other side of the gender fence. You have your own experience, but nothing to compare it with. Being a part of a D/D couple, I have the advantage of seeing how things are different between MP and Myself, as well as the input from other D/D couples who have noticed the vast difference between the genders.

HatesParis, I will thank you for the compliment, though I'm not sure it was deserved. I do hope folks will enjoy the questions wandering around their minds for a bit. I could absolutely be wrong in My own.

I hope there will be others who will contribute. My thanks to those who have do so to date.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to HatesParisHilton)

Post #: 8

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 10:17:54 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

It's been my observation that the gender difference regarding one major issue lead to the answer to this question. No 'absolutism' should be implied; but for the most part, men will do anything to be touched, woman spend most of their lives trying to avoid being touched. Casual or sexual, this seems to apply. That's why men seek out socially acceptable occasions to do so. The winning touchdown or game winning hit, generates a male 'dog pile'. Lots of butt slapping and an "at' a boy!"; acceptable. They don't even have to be playing - you can observe the same group dynamic between men when 'their' team scores. Rarely do you encounter similar interaction between woman.

Hang a shingle as a female anything and you better allocate a day for every hour your profile is active, to weed through the replies. Guys want to be touched, to many preferring the female touch; there is no difference if that touch is a hand, or a hand working a flogger. 'Do me' submissives come in both genders. I see many posts about male 'dominants' contacting female Dominants who become 'inspired' to serve based upon a picture. Striking out as a 'dom'? - Why not try 'sub'? When changing hands is the only variety you get - it's a 'no-brainer'.

The reason it appears there are fewer woman Dominant profiles is that they don't need them. When they do, a day's worth of posting will generate a Disney theme park sized line of potential playmates. I challenge any male to represent he's experienced the same.

With access comes opportunity. Skill set, and experience, not necessarily a factor. No doubt that generates a large advantage making it much easier for a female top.

PS - Lady P, Did you make your SF arrangements for Folsom?

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 9

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 10:22:54 AM

lobodomslavery

Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline

I think its really difficult for a male sub to get a Mistress unless he offers Her cash. I know its terrible saying this but unfortunately money is valued by Women and by Men too I d say a lot. I also think its difficult for male subs because Women have so many subs both male and female to choose. Im currently single. Im not bitter. I think I will be remaining single for a while. I just think thats the reality
Kevin

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 10

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 10:30:51 AM

worthlesstrash

Posts: 114
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline

I think for myself I have noticed that female tops have it a bit easier with no experience. All I would have to do is change my profile to switch or domme, and within a day or two I would have someone to top, without a doubt. I am not sure why this is, unless because there are so many horny lil bastards out there that would love the sexual part....they don't care if you have ever tied anyone up before, they are just excited you will actually tie them up.

I think women are a bit more picky for the most part. We want to know every detail of what someone has done before..etc. While I know it's also not a fact..I don't think males probably have in their head the fear of rape if they are unable to defend themselves (while it is quite possible and does happen), they just don't feel the same danger that a woman does.

Just my opinion..nothing more.

_____________________________

~anne

This girl is a slave, but she is also a woman full of love, life, and who has a ton of interests.
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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 11

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 11:36:04 AM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline

FR, after continuing read thru

I like Merc's point, above, about the 'touching differential' . . . . .

I'd like all this stuff to be egalitarian, but even adjusting for my own sexist stuff still leaves a skewed picture, so I think there are differences . . . .

I was thinking about this after reading LP's reply to my response. Mother & Father archetypes . . . . . Particularly, I think, when it comes to dominant persons in a BDSM setting. The first & most significant authority figure in pretty much most people's lives is gonna be mommy & daddy (or the lack thereof, an equally profound shaper) . . . . & Mommy is the font of nurturance, the source of unconditional love that is supposed to be soft, loving, caring, gentle, kind -- all those femme characteristics rolled up into the 'Mama' thing, too. Dad, he's a different archetype, he's 'unconditional tough love'. Yeah, he might love his offspring for ever, but he'll also be the one dishing out the discipline / correction / punishment, the one who's prepared to walk away forever, if that's what it takes . . . . . (& keeping in mind I'm talking role expectations way more than I am individual data points . . . . . .)

Hell, there's this whole phase many children go thru where they're generally timid-to-frightened around grown men (especially the strangers) but much more trusting of women . . . . .

So, in general vanilla life, women are seen as 'more approachable' & men less so, & it has little to do with actual individuals & lots to do with human propensities to use pattern recognition to feel safe . . . . . There are lots of factors that feed into being approachable, 'friendly' versus 'aloof' kinds of stuff, some of which tend to align with femme versus masculine distributions of characteristics, too . . . . .

As for the 'authority' thing, ie, the being-taken-seriously-&-with-respect-for-mastery-of-knowledge-skills-etc, there is a trend the other way from the approachability. Guys get accorded an 'authorative premium', & chicks get a discount, automatically, based on gender -- big generalization, of course. There've been studies that have shown this trend, also, fwtw.

I'm familiar with this issue from the 'vanilla universe' & so I'm unsurprised to hear about it in the BDSM world. & given that there are factions of both male & female supremacists of various stripes vocal within the 'community', I'm betting there's a rainbow coalition of conflict over all kinds of nuances of sex & gender politics . .. .

To cover my ass, I do feel moved to point out that it is social skills & personality factors that are the more significant determiners of 'approachability', far more so than gender or sex. Things that are learnable, changeable about self to a degree that sex & gender are not . ... .

(in reply to worthlesstrash)

Post #: 12

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 12:41:38 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm going to admit that I have probably written the options very poorly. The idea for this poll came from this thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_2808362/tm.htm .

After watching threads here for a couple of years as well as what I've observed in the meatlife BDSM community, it is My opinion that we are tougher on males coming into the scene than females. New female tops have many more opportunities for play, dynamics, etc than the male counterparts. From the countless threads that we've had on the defition of the difference between Master and Dominant, it seems to Me that folks have a stronger opinion of that when applied to males, rather than females. (In other words, a female who is new doesn't get nearly the flack for calling herself Mistress as a male does for calling himself Master when they lack experience.)

I'd like to ask that we don't get into the definition debate here. This is a poll only about what you have observed either here on the site, in the real world, or both. Any explanation of why you voted the way you did would be appreciated.

Thank you for your time and participation.

Edited to add..... This is a poll with multiple selection, as the first three options are specifically about tops, while the second three options apply to the Master/Mistress thing.

Actually Lady Pact, you wrote the options quite well and after having voted, I can't say that I am surprised to see that the results are similar to the poll I did a couple of months ago. In that poll, I asked who has more opportunities for BDSM play when combined with sexual play...male dominants, male submissives, male switches OR female dominants, female submissives, female switches. Oddly enough, all the female answers were higher in numbers than their male counterparts. Imagine that...and it really shouldn't be that hard to. Many other factors come into play, as noted above. In general:

1. Men like to be touched more than women do. If it is in a sexual way along with the pain-inflicting way, so much the better.

2. Women are considered, for some reason, to be "safer" than men. They're also considered more desirable. As noted, male tops/doms approaching a female submissive for play are often considered "creepy" , whereas a female top/dominant or submissive approaching a male/female submissive or male top/dominant for play is not.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 9/24/2009 12:50:43 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 13

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 1:17:15 PM

WarKirby

Posts: 71
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline

definitely not related to dominance or submissiveness at all. Female subs can get a million doms vying for them whenever they want. Whereas male doms OR subs have extreme trouble trying to find a female interested. The most common situation is simply a complete lack of response from anyone they message.

I wonder what the numerical balance is like.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 14

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 1:23:20 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WarKirby

definitely not related to dominance or submissiveness at all. Female subs can get a million doms vying for them whenever they want. Whereas male doms OR subs have extreme trouble trying to find a female interested. The most common situation is simply a complete lack of response from anyone they message.

I wonder what the numerical balance is like.

I believe it was explained quite well above.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 15

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 1:53:21 PM

WarKirby

Posts: 71
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I believe it was explained quite well above.

I don't see any figures listed above, regarding the ratio of m to f on this site. That's generally what I meant. Or perhaps, the wider bdsm community in general.

Half the world's population is female, more or less ? How does it come to a situation where one gender is so much more desired than the other? Does the gender balance within BDSM not reflect the wider whole of humanity? Is it a more male-populated area?

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 16

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 2:00:49 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

For every 19 males in the US on this site there are 5 females disregarding age or role.

My method NCS (name colour sampling)

NCS is dependent on honesty and individual outlook regarding what counts as a female and or male.

Also NCS determines the colour purple as null.

+ I only counted one page of names because I is lazy. Count ten etc. have a field day and improve accuracy of sampling.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 9/24/2009 2:07:11 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 3:57:59 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
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I voted differently from most of the other posters. There are different environments that definitely affect the outcome, whether a person plays in public or private, in closed groups or nightclubs, open membership dungeons, etc. And of course the self-selection for particular social groups can readily increase or decrease the ratios, i.e. a gay or lesbian group, a women's only party, etc.

_____________________________

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great day, I will tease you all the same."
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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 18

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/24/2009 7:21:19 PM

RobertCloud

Posts: 2959
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

Recently I was watching a program on one of the real and scientific stations. It was about a Domme that was fairly new to the scene and how she had killed a man with a latex suit. She had not given the man any form of audible/noise producing way for him to say Stop. It turned out he was allergic to latex, and she thought all of his moaning and wrything was part of his play.
He died during the session from anaphylactic shock.

I realize that this is very unusual, but someone with experience would realize he needed something like a bell or a noise maker to let her know if something was going wrong.

It was ruled an accident in the courts, so she did not go to jail. But, hopefully she has learned a valuable lesson.

Now for my own pondering. Why is it Domme's and Mistresses tend to charge for their services where their male counterparts rarely do?

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(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 19

RE: Females Treated Differently Than Males - 9/25/2009 4:05:28 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Perhaps because the buggers don't bother whether or not the lady in question really WANTS their attention, they just keep insisting. So, she figures if they are going to insist, she may as well get something worthwhile out of it also.

I have to say that has become my pat answer for all the little light blue emails I get, begging to serve. If they cannot read my profile and take a polite, no thank you, they want my continued time..........I made a paypal account especially for them. Of course it remains empty. But that is not the point. The point is that so many s type males are so focused on their kink, so obsessed with it, they block everything else out. And lord help me if I am stupid enough to initiate contact in a friendly manner. I made that mistake with a very sweet and funny, young man that used to post here a lot. It is pretty common knowledge among the regular posters that know me, that I haven't any interest in the male population, except in a friendly manner. Yet, my email to him got him all excited. Then when I explained that I was just being friendly, I could tell he was all pissy........began to ignore any communication from me at all, email or forum posts. It made me quite sad and I learned a valuable lesson.

Yet, very rarely, if ever, have I gotten the feel that a woman has misunderstood my intent in writing them. I am quite capable in being very good friends with hetro and vanilla, people. Most women get this quite well, the men.........not so much so.

The above is not wholely on topic, but the gist of it really is. There is a difference. Men are seen as wankers from the get, simply based upon the behaviour of a great percentage of the population of them. Women are not seen as being as predatory, simply because the greater percentage, are not. Therefor, those assumptions based upon past experiences, flavour the subconcious mindset.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to RobertCloud)

Post #: 20

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