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Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 7:27:19 AM   
OttersSwim


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Okay, so let's talk about something positive, heh? 

There are decided differences between males and females - not just in appearances and biology, but in psyche, attitude and socialization.

So what I want to discuss is how a female led D/s relationship differs from a male led D/s relationship.  What do Ladies want out of a relationship with a male submissive/slave that is different from that of a Master with a female submissive/slave?  And yes, we are talking around some generalities and so I am wondering if we can come up with some "principles" of female led D/s realtionship. 

Are there decided differences that people have seen and experienced in style, attitude, and practice that can be separated out?  What are the overall affect of those differences - on the relationship, but also on the community?

Femdommery (hehe, that's a fun word!) has grown significantly over the past decade.  How has it changed the community for better or for worse?

Finally, has the influx of all you uppetty wimmins had an effect on Mandommery (yea, I couldn't resist ) as a whole?  How have attitudes changed over the past ten or fifteen years?   How are the changes positive or negative as you see them?

So a lot of questions and I hope we can come up with some ideas here and make a good topic of discussion! 

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 7:39:25 AM   
Sunnyfey


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Well, I can say I havent met a Male Dom who has ordered his femme sub to cross dress. So, the forced cross dressing, and sissification are two big thing I can think of that are different with Femdoms.

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 7:47:05 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Well, I can say I havent met a Male Dom who has ordered his femme sub to cross dress. So, the forced cross dressing, and sissification are two big thing I can think of that are different with Femdoms.


Well you have now He once made me dress up as a lado with go out on the town with him!

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 7:53:41 AM   
Sunnyfey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Well, I can say I havent met a Male Dom who has ordered his femme sub to cross dress. So, the forced cross dressing, and sissification are two big thing I can think of that are different with Femdoms.


Well you have now He once made me dress up as a lado with go out on the town with him!



that's kinda hawt


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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 8:01:18 AM   
allthatjaz


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CBT. A Dom just can't do that to a fem sub!

Sorry I will get serious now.
You see a lot more boot worship coming from male subs than female ones, though I know there are a few exceptions.

I think in general a fem Domme is looking for someone who can do the manual jobs she struggles with.
Not often wants a male baby or little boy sub
Isn't as much into looks as male Doms often are. A think that women often look at the deeper submission because they are not ruled by there cocks!
Women are more likely to share or even loan out the male sub with other female Dominant friends than a male Dom is.

I don't think there were any less unpaid fem Dommes 10 years ago and I don't believe there are any more genuine pro Mistresses but we have an awful lot of women catching on to the fact that big money can be made out of this if they can be good actresses for a couple of hours a day.


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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 9:01:13 AM   
Lashra


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quote:

Are there decided differences that people have seen and experienced in style, attitude, and practice that can be separated out? What are the overall affect of those differences - on the relationship, but also on the community?

I have noted that many Femdoms do not like to share/loan out their male subs to other Dominants. I've seen this happen in many of the male Dom relationships, where the girl is loaned out for others to use whether she likes it or not. I frankly could not do that with my man.
I have also noted that more of the male Dom relationships seem to be poly whereas Femdoms seem to lean towards monogamy.

Femdommery (hehe, that's a fun word!) has grown significantly over the past decade. How has it changed the community for better or for worse?

It has made it better as it has society in general. Women have had to work hard to gain rights (that we should have had from the beginning). I think it brings a balance to things that was not there before. New ideas and new perspectives are always a good thing.

Finally, has the influx of all you uppetty wimmins had an effect on Mandommery (yea, I couldn't resist ) as a whole? How have attitudes changed over the past ten or fifteen years? How are the changes positive or negative as you see them?

I know some male Dominants respect us for who we are, I know some that hate us or will not accept us. I feel that is fine, those that do not accept us can live in their ignorance blissfully as their opinions have no affect on my life. I have always been Dominant and will always be so.
I have seen many positive changes, people are more aware that women are capable of leading good solid relationships, as well as large corporations, countries etc.


~Lashra

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 9:25:54 AM   
SomethingCatchy


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I for one haven't seen any consistent generalities where female lead relationships are. The one's I've personally witnessed have been as varied as there are options for variation. The only thing I can say that I have noticed is when a female does loan out her male, it usually isn't for sexual services.

I can't say the generalization that women tend to not care about the male's looks is correct. I personally would never be involved with someone I did not find physically attractive, although my tastes are pretty broad. I also know of a woman who enjoys collecting 'pretty boys'.



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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 10:10:47 AM   
thetammyjo


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The M/s couples we know of all orientations all seem to have similar foundations for how their authority works. Differences seem more a matter of individual than sex or gender.

It's been years since I had a female sub or slave so I can't remember clearly if I treated her any differently because she was another woman. I doubt I did. I mostly treated her differently because she had her own unique skill set and abilities.

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 1:55:33 PM   
kccuckoldmist


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I do not think there are any actual real differences in terms of a male or female dominant. I think any differences you see are just normal male and female differences that get exposed more when there is power exchanged and allows a dominant to indulge more in how they like to live.

It is pretty much all going to come down to obey, design and indulge in things a dominant wants and enjoys in a relationship. I think many of the differences might be looked upon as being quite differentl as the whole femdom can go against society stereotypes.

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 8:41:03 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
So what I want to discuss is how a female led D/s relationship differs from a male led D/s relationship. What do Ladies want out of a relationship with a male submissive/slave that is different from that of a Master with a female submissive/slave? And yes, we are talking around some generalities and so I am wondering if we can come up with some "principles" of female led D/s relationship.


That alone is quite an ambitious question, and it covers so much ground that no one could possibly sum it up in one post on a message board.

One could simply say dominance is dominance, and there is plenty of truth to that. There is a lot more in common between male and female dominance than difference; after all, good dominance, at its core, is about the psychology and being of influence, power and leadership. The "rules", so to speak, are interchangeable between male and female on many levels.

Where the sexes differ, in my opinion, lies certainly in their biology and the behavioral differences inherent. I know—in this age of gender neutrality, such a remark skirts dangerously close to building a foundation for sexism, but I would contend the differences are fairly easy to see, though perhaps minute overall, compared to the similarities between the sexes. However, one could say, for example, that dominant males tend to be more concerned with carnal matters and the conquest of them, whereas dominant females tend to take a somewhat more ambiguous—and one might argue, holistic—approach. We've all read enough threads lamenting the tired subject of, "why are dominant women so consumed with material stuff?", and the apropos rejoinder of, "why are dominant men so consumed with sex?" How we function as male and female animals making our way in the world makes some degree of difference in how we do a number of things, particularly when it comes to sexual politics, which does bump up against us quite closely here in the fetish and D/s circle (the differing principles of attraction and seduction of and by male and female, the strong male drive to mate and provide/protect resources, the female imperative to select mates and resources cautiously, etc.)

In many cases, mating behavior between the sexes is irrelevant or turned upon its head, depending upon the relational dynamic present (we know some forms of female dominance eroticize and exploit the you are unsuitable, and I would never fuck you in a million years archetype quite effectively). Same sex D/s carves an interesting hole in any established truisms, and some people just break the "mold" entirely, when one considers all the gradations of gender bending and sexual stereotype-smashing personalities involved in BDSM.

I'd still contend, based upon my own experiences, that there are a few basic patterns that are, in aggregate, supportive of a difference between males and females in how they dominate. As for what they get out of dominance, the answer (again) contains more similarity than difference, but alluding to the aforementioned points, one might find that many men want obedient sex slaves to call their own, whereas women seek labor, resources and sex; in essence, I find women tend to be more discriminative in their selections, and men tend to be more liberal.

I would add this discussion is incomplete without additionally inquiring about the differences of the whys and hows between male and female submission, as well—which will be even more revealing about forming a theory about "principles".

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 8:49:59 PM   
AcademyForSlaves


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Hi.

That's a great question. I know for me I like a man who knows how to obey and likes to serve me. I don't mind if he has some fetishes he likes, that can be a plus, but I really like a sub that's into serving and pleasing me. I like a gentleman. Chivalry, knight on a horse and all that. What woman doesn't? Some of the other Mistresses I know are into those kind of subs too. Does a man who kneels in armour exist? lol

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/17/2009 10:27:23 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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In my vernacle, it changed how most men speak around me.   Some men think I massively hot for being the ruler in my world, and others think I'm insane and want to be a man, which could not be further from the truth, as much as you love you mens.     M

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 12:21:05 AM   
ShaktiSama


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There are some female-led relationships which have an ideological basis:  some variation on the female supremacist fantasy which is analogous to the male supremacist Gor fantasy.  I would agree with the general consensus which says that male and female dominance are almost identical in character, though, with much more variation within a single gender than you see differences between genders.

I also think you can take the sociological perspective, however, and point to broad social trends and culturally common differences between men and women which might cause male and female dominance to diverge.  The model I've used recently tends to assume that both male and female dominants are identical in the sense that both men and women use their dominant role to in a relationship have a submissive partner meet their most important needs.  Where they sometimes differ is where men and women in our society tend to PERCEIVE a need to exist, or perceive a need to be important...or where they regard it appropriate to have certain needs met by your submissive partner, to prove your power over him/her and their devotion to you.

Do male dominants focus more on sexual submission and control than female dominants do?  Absolutely.  I would argue, however, that this is because they have a much greater need to assert themselves sexually because they are men.  Male sexuality is traditionally devalued in our society; access to a male body for sexual use is not considered anything special, and in fact in many ways male sexual desire and male bodies are actually given a NEGATIVE value--it is assumed that sex with a man is so undesirable that men should have to pay to give it away.

Male dominants often turn these stereotypes upside-down and twist them as a road to power.  Precisely because they are men, they have a need to assert themselves sexually which is culturally defined and enforced. Male dominant power-play exists in dialogue with an overall female tendency in our society to protect oneself from exploitation as a sexual object, and to place some kind of premium on one's sexuality--to give it worth.  Women are culturally trained to resist being sexual with every man who comes along, to fend off sex unless they are offered some kind of value in exchange.  So men are culturally inclined to assert their power and worth as men by overcoming or demolishing these defenses.  Hence the form of humiliation which an earlier poster mentioned, in which male dominants go to the extreme of forcing their femme subs to have sex with multiple partners.  This is a deliberate tactic to degrade the woman's cultural tendency to value or to "own" and control her own body.  He proves his power by demonstrating that his woman will not only submit to him, but that he can make her a completely powerless sexual object for ANY man's use.

By contrast?  In our society, the value that women place on their bodies, men place on their wallets.  (Probably because both a man's money and a woman's body represent equally significant wellsprings of self-esteem, personal power and identity/ego.)  There are some women who feel the need to shatter the male ego by financial dominance and humiliation, just as some men feel the need to shatter the female ego with sexual objectification.  Is it always specifically about money and personal greed?  Not necessarily.  I think the money becomes a symbol of power and specifically it becomes an avenue of resistance for men--just as women are trained not to be used sexually, men are trained not to be used financially in this culture.

And let's face one little fact straight up front, folks:  there is something about resistance that certain sadistic personalities find innately attractive.  The very fact that you shriek and holler "no" makes them smile and say "Oh, I think yes".

*shrug*  Dominants are dominants, and dominants are people.  I don't think there is any one principle that applies to all female-led relationships.  But I do think there are issues that might surround female-led relationships that have to take place in a certain cultural context.  Like, say, the English-speaking world of the early 21st century. 


< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 9/18/2009 12:22:13 AM >


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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 1:41:59 AM   
allthatjaz


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I just wanted to say thanks ShaktiSama for that very interesting read

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 2:30:27 AM   
sublimehonesty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Well, I can say I havent met a Male Dom who has ordered his femme sub to cross dress. So, the forced cross dressing, and sissification are two big thing I can think of that are different with Femdoms.


Well you have now He once made me dress up as a lado with go out on the town with him!

*swoon* that's one of my favourite (9.5 weeks) fantasies!!!

Further confirmation I want to be Steve and Maria when I grow up!

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 5:21:54 AM   
Acer49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Okay, so let's talk about something positive, heh? 

There are decided differences between males and females - not just in appearances and biology, but in psyche, attitude and socialization.

So what I want to discuss is how a female led D/s relationship differs from a male led D/s relationship.  What do Ladies want out of a relationship with a male submissive/slave that is different from that of a Master with a female submissive/slave?  And yes, we are talking around some generalities and so I am wondering if we can come up with some "principles" of female led D/s realtionship. 

Are there decided differences that people have seen and experienced in style, attitude, and practice that can be separated out?  What are the overall affect of those differences - on the relationship, but also on the community?

Femdommery (hehe, that's a fun word!) has grown significantly over the past decade.  How has it changed the community for better or for worse?

Finally, has the influx of all you uppetty wimmins had an effect on Mandommery (yea, I couldn't resist ) as a whole?  How have attitudes changed over the past ten or fifteen years?   How are the changes positive or negative as you see them?

So a lot of questions and I hope we can come up with some ideas here and make a good topic of discussion! 

Well there are basically two type of female dominants there is the group whose profile suggest that they are soft, but firm , caring and nurturing and then there are those profiles which go to great lengths to let their reader know that they view the male submissive as less than slime

There seems to be a double standard. If a male dominant were to treat a female in the way that some females treat the male submissive, they would be tarred and feathered, but when the female does it, she is congratulated by her peers.

It appears that the female dominant are much more focused on humiliation, objectification and degradation than their male counterparts, but this appears to be what female dominants feel dominance and submission is all about

Female dominants seemed more inclined to push limits then their male counterparts when it comes to scenes that involve pain, their statement,” Well he is a man, he should be able to handle it”
Female dominants are usually not interested in sexual relationships with their submissives and some go to great lengths to point that out, using their sex as a torture device on the male submissives. The male dominant, on the other hand, uses sex as his main focus. Women are more inclined to loan their submissives out then their male counterparts,

This begs the question, Are the women behind those profiles as cold and unfeeling as they are portrayed. Are submissives males as weak and spineless as they appear? Are both just projecting an image they think that each other wants to see?


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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 5:42:07 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimehonesty


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Well, I can say I havent met a Male Dom who has ordered his femme sub to cross dress. So, the forced cross dressing, and sissification are two big thing I can think of that are different with Femdoms.


Well you have now He once made me dress up as a lado with go out on the town with him!

*swoon* that's one of my favourite (9.5 weeks) fantasies!!!

Further confirmation I want to be Steve and Maria when I grow up!


Well I think you should do that pretty quickly and just come and join us

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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 6:00:09 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Okay, so let's talk about something positive, heh? 

There are decided differences between males and females - not just in appearances and biology, but in psyche, attitude and socialization.

So what I want to discuss is how a female led D/s relationship differs from a male led D/s relationship.  What do Ladies want out of a relationship with a male submissive/slave that is different from that of a Master with a female submissive/slave?  And yes, we are talking around some generalities and so I am wondering if we can come up with some "principles" of female led D/s realtionship. 

Are there decided differences that people have seen and experienced in style, attitude, and practice that can be separated out?  What are the overall affect of those differences - on the relationship, but also on the community?

Femdommery (hehe, that's a fun word!) has grown significantly over the past decade.  How has it changed the community for better or for worse?

Finally, has the influx of all you uppetty wimmins had an effect on Mandommery (yea, I couldn't resist ) as a whole?  How have attitudes changed over the past ten or fifteen years?   How are the changes positive or negative as you see them?

So a lot of questions and I hope we can come up with some ideas here and make a good topic of discussion! 

Well there are basically two type of female dominants there is the group whose profile suggest that they are soft, but firm , caring and nurturing and then there are those profiles which go to great lengths to let their reader know that they view the male submissive as less than slime

There seems to be a double standard. If a male dominant were to treat a female in the way that some females treat the male submissive, they would be tarred and feathered, but when the female does it, she is congratulated by her peers.

It appears that the female dominant are much more focused on humiliation, objectification and degradation than their male counterparts, but this appears to be what female dominants feel dominance and submission is all about

Female dominants seemed more inclined to push limits then their male counterparts when it comes to scenes that involve pain, their statement,” Well he is a man, he should be able to handle it”
Female dominants are usually not interested in sexual relationships with their submissives and some go to great lengths to point that out, using their sex as a torture device on the male submissives. The male dominant, on the other hand, uses sex as his main focus. Women are more inclined to loan their submissives out then their male counterparts,

This begs the question, Are the women behind those profiles as cold and unfeeling as they are portrayed. Are submissives males as weak and spineless as they appear? Are both just projecting an image they think that each other wants to see?



Acer..... much of what you say I agree with. I think fem Dommes can come over as hard nosed bitches and I agree that the female submissive would neither cope or stand for a lot of Domly womens ways.

I think women are much more likely to take on a male sub for play or domestic duties and leave out all the relationship and sex stuff than a man but when she does form a relationship with a male sub then its hugely different.
I have read many posts on these boards of fem Dommes that have submissive male partners and one can read quite clearly the combination of love, excitement, adoration and pride those women have in there submissive male.
We also pick up from others, the protection and care they give there (non relationship) submissive men but can still be incredibly hard on them and lead them with an iron fist.

There is a huge difference between picking someone up for a bit of fun and finding the one. When that special one comes along its deep, its meaningful and its fu_k_ng orgasmic.



< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 9/18/2009 6:02:01 AM >


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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 6:03:05 AM   
OttersSwim


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Yes!  Wonderful post ShaktiSama.  Spot on to my view! 

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I just wanted to say thanks ShaktiSama for that very interesting read


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RE: Principles of a Female Led Relationship - 9/18/2009 6:14:47 AM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
Well there are basically two type of female dominants there is the group whose profile suggest that they are soft, but firm , caring and nurturing and then there are those profiles which go to great lengths to let their reader know that they view the male submissive as less than slime

There seems to be a double standard. If a male dominant were to treat a female in the way that some females treat the male submissive, they would be tarred and feathered, but when the female does it, she is congratulated by her peers.

It appears that the female dominant are much more focused on humiliation, objectification and degradation than their male counterparts, but this appears to be what female dominants feel dominance and submission is all about

Female dominants seemed more inclined to push limits then their male counterparts when it comes to scenes that involve pain, their statement,” Well he is a man, he should be able to handle it”
Female dominants are usually not interested in sexual relationships with their submissives and some go to great lengths to point that out, using their sex as a torture device on the male submissives. The male dominant, on the other hand, uses sex as his main focus. Women are more inclined to loan their submissives out then their male counterparts,

This begs the question, Are the women behind those profiles as cold and unfeeling as they are portrayed. Are submissives males as weak and spineless as they appear? Are both just projecting an image they think that each other wants to see?



quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Acer..... much of what you say I agree with. I think fem Dommes can come over as hard nosed bitches and I agree that the female submissive would neither cope or stand for a lot of Domly womens ways.

I think women are much more likely to take on a male sub for play or domestic duties and leave out all the relationship and sex stuff than a man but when she does form a relationship with a male sub then its hugely different.
I have read many posts on these boards of fem Dommes that have submissive male partners and one can read quite clearly the combination of love, excitement, adoration and pride those women have in there submissive male.
We also pick up from others, the protection and care they give there (non relationship) submissive men but can still be incredibly hard on them and lead them with an iron fist.

There is a huge difference between picking someone up for a bit of fun and finding the one. When that special one comes along its deep, its meaningful and its fu_k_ng orgasmic.



I agree and found a bit of Acer49s concepts to be overgeneralized.  I know multiple folk in F/m relationships and pretty much every one of them is a Love relationship with a capital "L".

I guess I see one difference in Female led relationships in the dychotomy of the "useless worm" Domme and the "nurturing sadista" Domme, and the fact that you just don't see a lot of the first type in Male led realtionships.   We in the "West" and as a culture just do not overtly demean women in that way. 

I think it goes back to Shakti's post about breaking down socialized perceptions of one's self as a path to submission.

What about playing the field?  My perception of Male dominants is that (generalization ahead!) by and large, they play/have multiple partners/submissives/slaves/bottoms...whereas most Female dominants I know have only one - with a salute to Miss Starlett who clearly breaks this mold. 

Dunno...maybe I am getting over-generalized here too...(adjust epilets on shoulders and polishes the little stars )

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 9/18/2009 6:17:26 AM >


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