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Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their Gen... - 9/24/2009 2:41:24 PM   
MissLeslie


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Joined: 9/16/2009
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Here at Collar Me, things have certainly changed over the past few years.  A disturbing thing that I have noticed, just recently (within the past few months), starting to occur on almost a universal and grand scale, has been the deliberate and intentional misrepresentation,  by numerous cross-dressers, about their actual sexuality and gender; in numerous places, but more importantly to Me, also right here at CM.  It has become such a problem and nuisance that I felt that now was a great time to bring the matter up on the general BDSM discussion board. 

In years past, transvestites (men who enjoy wearing female clothing, or females who enjoy wearing male clothing, on a regular basis (not a once or twice in a lifetime occurrence; better known by the slang term for such persons, which is male cross-dresser, or female cross-dresser, or cross-dressers.  Male transvestites like to wear female clothing, and female transvestites like to wear male clothing), here on CM and elsewhere, would identify their gender as "Trans" (for transgendered).  Transgendered persons have a myriad of sexualities, but their sexuality cannot legitimately be that of "homosexual" or "heterosexual".  It can, however, be "bisexual", meaning that they can be sexually active with persons who are either male, or female.  If a transgendered person has exclusive sexual relationships with persons of a single gender, such as only men, only transgendered persons, or only women, then they are actually "mono-sexual with males", "mono-sexual with transgendered persons", or "mono-sexual with females".  They are not "gay" or "lesbian".  Yet, there has become a plethora of transgendered persons here at CM who are using the term "lesbian", when that is not an accurate term.

More disturbing is the prevalence of cross-dressers who are putting on their profiles that they are "female".  Male and female gender is determined solely by genetics, not by one's desire to be male or female.  Today, I felt that now is about as good of a time as any to bring some clarification to the sex AND gender of a transgendered person; so that many of us can be better educated on the matter.  By knowing the actual, clinical, distinctions of the type of transgendered person, and the correct sexuality for that specific transgendered person, hopefully soon these cross-dressers will stop intentionally trying to mislead people to think they are female, when they are not female at all, because more of us will be able to recognize when they are not being honest with all of us.

It is important to note that simply because someone says that they are transgendered, does not actually mean that they are.  In very rare instances, such as my own, it is simply far easier to say that I am transgendered, instead of saying that I am genetically female (which I am) and happen to have additional genetic material in myself from a non-viable male twin, while I was still in the womb, prior to my own birth (which I do; needless to say, it is very difficult to manage from a body chemistry perspective).  The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines transgender as: 

  • Main Entry: trans·gen·der
  • Pronunciation: \-ˈjen-dər\
  • Variant(s): or trans·gen·dered \-dərd\
  • Function: adjective
  • Date: 1979
: of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birthtrans·gen·der·ism \-ˌi-zəm\ noun
One can only be male or female at birth (apologies to the TG crowd for informing you of something you might not be happy about).  There is not any other distinction in regards to a person's sex at birth.  One cannot suddenly "identify transgender" to seek relationships with others who are "transgendered" SOLELY.  That is because there are three kinds of transgendered persons, with two different chains of sexual identification that correlate to each kind:

First, we have to begin with the three kinds of transgendered persons, which are:

Pre-Op (short for pre-operation) transsexual - a person who has not yet received sexual reassignment surgery (a medical procedure where sex organs of a different sex are fitted onto, or into, the human body of a person, who was born as the opposite sex, mainly through the construction of these organs using available tissues and muscles from the surgical client; or SRS for short), but shall be doing so.
Post-Op (short for post-operation) transsexual - a person who has already undergone sexual reassignment surgery.
Non-Op (short for non-operation) transsexual - a person who self-identifies as a person of a sex different from their sex at birth, who does not intend to have sexual reassignment surgery.

The two chains of sexual identification are:

MtoF (short for Male to Female) - This is more common than the chain below
FtoM (short for Female to Male)

Some important distinctions to remember are:  If a person undergoes SRS, that does not make them the opposite sex, as that is determined by genetics, and not by any surgical procedure.  Those who would be identified as Pre-Op would have every intention of having SRS, those who would be identified as Post-Op have already had SRS, and those who would be identified as Non-Op do not have any intention of having SRS.

When you see the word "transition" used in concert with "transgender" (more often than not, although some people will still use the term "transsexual" to more accurately describe themselves), this means that a person is preparing for SRS.  To be a person "in transition" does not mean that the person is solely wearing the clothes and representing themselves as a person of their opposite sex; regardless of whether or not they are receiving hormone therapy for the opposite sex; this is only a small part of the misrepresentations happening here at CM.  Whether they be male, or female, this type of person is either a male or female transvestite.  Perhaps it may be caused by simple ignorance; however, since there has been a large number of people doing the exact same thing, it seems to this OP that it is happening because there is a political agenda involved, or the intent is to simply intentionally mislead.  In some instances, the outcome being desired is to disguise actual sex, in order to attract persons of a specific sex or sexual preference, who might not otherwise wish to be involved sexually or in other ways with that person, specifically because they are transgendered; or for other reasons unknown to me.

Today, transsexualism is considered a chronic long-term condition, making those diagnosed with the condition by a physician eligible to receive certain medical treatments, such as hormone therapy, and, in some states, to be eligible for social services type benefits, such as Medicaid and Welfare, enabling some medical treatments (excluding SRS in most instances) to be eligible to be paid for with tax dollars.  Many gay males in San Francisco and New York City, during the height of the AIDS epidemic, were able to get anti retro-viral medications paid for through public health services, simply by having a physician diagnose them as "transsexual".  In many of the larger gay and lesbian communities, such as New York City, or San Francisco, the practice continues even today.

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary defines the word "woman" as "an adult female person"; see below:

  • Main Entry: wom·an
  • Pronunciation: \ˈwu̇-mən, especially Southern ˈwō- or ˈwə-\
  • Function: noun
  • Inflected Form(s): plural wom·en \ˈwi-mən\
  • Etymology: Middle English, from Old English wīfman, from wīf woman, wife + man human being, man
  • Date: before 12th century
1 a : an adult female person b : a woman belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) —usually used in combination <councilwoman>
2 : womankind
3 : distinctively feminine nature : womanliness
4 : a woman who is a servant or personal attendant
5 a chiefly dialect : wife b : mistress c : girlfriend 2— woman adjectivewom·an·less \-ləs\ adjective
In other words, according to our current dictionary, and as a part of current English usage, a "woman" is a female genetically.  A woman is not a male cross-dresser, or Non-Op MtoF Transsexual, Pre-Op MtoF Transsexual, or Post-Op MtoF Transsexual.  A Post-Op MtoF transsexual is NOT a female, because whether one is female is determined by genetics, NOT whether or not someone had a surgical procedure; if proper English usage is applied. 

You might ask why would I want to make these distinctions, and use bulletin board space to do so.  My reasoning is that what I have listed above is factual information, and as both a genetic female, and being a person who is so unique that I have a genetic circumstance that has technically blurred the line somewhat as to my own sex at birth, I am still a real woman.  [Note:  I am a four-year psychology minor with a 4.0 GPA in college, as well as an actual female.]

In my personal opinion, the intentional blurring of gender lines, by those with a political agenda I am personally and adamantly opposed to, has been more harmful to society than helpful.  I am not saying that transgendered and transsexual persons should be excluded from any part of our society.  I am saying, here at Collar Me, that as a woman, I am personally mortified and sickened by those who would intentionally misrepresent their sex solely to attempt to sexually harass me, or to, in a more general manner, attempt to change the definition of female to something that I am not, and the majority of all people are not, okay with.

Allow me to point out an example of a profile that I have found here at Collar Me, without actually using someone's real profile name, and use this example to make a point:

The person in question is a long-time cross-dresser for many, many years, who now, at the age of 50, states in their profile, "I am a m2f transsexual WOMAN".  They show their sex on their profile as "female", and their sexual orientation as "lesbian".  This person continues on in their profile to state, "I am, and have always been, attracted to WOMEN".

If I were a lesbian, which I am not, and I was conducting a search across profiles at CM, looking for another lesbian, I might accidentally pull up this profile, which I would find absolutely disgusting!  So, you might say, "what is so wrong with their profile?"  What is wrong with it, in my personal opinion, is that, on one hand, perhaps because the author of the profile does not understand gender issues whatsoever, they have unintentionally chosen the descriptors "female" and "lesbian", because they do not realize what they actually are.  While that is a possibility, there is another reason perhaps why their profile states that they are "lesbian", and "female".  In the Collar Me profile creation screens, you have to choose a gender.  Unless you select "female" as your gender, you cannot pull up "lesbian" as your sexuality, because that option is only available to you under your sexual orientation if you choose "female" as your sex.

Technically, this person, if their intent is to undergo SRS, is a Pre-Op MtoF Transsexual; they are not female.  Their sexuality is technically "mono-sexual with women only"; however, this terminology cannot be chosen for a sexual orientation when you are putting together a profile here at CM.  I can only speculate as to why they are not being honest with all of us, but I have a possibility as to why they might be, and it simply might not be possible for them to be honest about their actual sex.

Female transvestites (females who prefer to wear male clothing, for the purpose specifically of trying to convince others that they are male, or to "feel" male through the donning of male apparel) are virtually unheard of in societies across the world.  They are so few in numbers that most persons will never come across a female transvestite in their lifetime.  Alternatively, there are so many male transvestites in the world(males who prefer to wear female clothing, for the purpose specifically of trying to convince others that they are female, or to "feel" female through the donning of female apparel), that no accurate number in society has ever been able to be determined.

By their nature, transvestites are not representing themselves as the birth gender that they actually are, when they are dressed in clothing of the opposite sex.  Consequently, many live two lives; one as the male that they were born as, and one as the female that they want to look, or feel like.  If you are concealing your true identity to others, then you are representing yourself in a dishonest manner.  One can take that statement to its logical conclusion, concerning transvestites, that they are being either dishonest with themselves, or others.  Most long-time cross-dressers cannot, or will not, be capable of actually transitioning through to SRS, because of the nature of their psyche.  Consider these numbers, taken from a study entitled:

A Comparative Study of Male Transvestites, Male to Female Transsexuals, and Male Homosexuals VERN BULLOUGH, BONNIE BULLOUGH, AND RICHARD SMITH,  AUTHORS

73% of all male transvestites had cross-dressed before the age of 10, whereas only 27% of ALL transsexuals had EVER cross-dressed. 

For each year past the age of 50, the odds of successfully completing a transition all the way to SRS are less than are less than 1 in 65.  So, cross-dressers are 7 times more likely to never have SRS, whereas 27% of all transsexuals were ALSO a transvestite.
So, the problem with the profile at CM, that I have been discussing, is that it is not EVEN close to being truthful, in multiple aspects.  A bigger problem with the individual is that they have managed to place themselves in a position where they can dictate the discussion topics in a chatroom, and ban those who bring up information about transvestites, that they do not want discussed.  So, since they would not allow the topic of honesty and cross-dressers to be discussed in the chatroom they have built that is supposedly for Dominant "women" and submissives, I decided to bring the discussion to the bulletin board.
Bottom line:  before you start writing to who you believe is a female, better read the whole profile.  For if you are not gay, you may be EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED IN WHO RESPONDS TO YOU!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:47:55 PM   
Lockit


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I think this has been such a problem for you that you are having a difficult time distancing yourself and being reasonable in how you are trying to get your point accross from last night and today. We get it, you are unhappy. Now heal and move on.

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(in reply to MissLeslie)
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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:48:11 PM   
mnottertail


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Can't you sorta tell? Most of the menfolk I see that wear womens clothing look kinda like Barney Rubble.

heavy brow line, wide shoulders, narrow hips......cock is a dead giveaway in some cases.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MissLeslie)
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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:48:40 PM   
lusciouslips19


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Lots of people misrepresent themselves here. I dont understand why its such a big deal to you? Seems lke you think your definitions is the only one that matters and you are the treminology police.

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:52:35 PM   
MissLeslie


Posts: 29
Joined: 9/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Lots of people misrepresent themselves here. I dont understand why its such a big deal to you? Seems lke you think your definitions is the only one that matters and you are the treminology police.


Your "assumption" is not correct.  Definitions that "actually and factually' describe something better to the majority of the population, than those that have not yet been debated, are far easier to understand for most people.  I just like to get the FACTS out 

< Message edited by MissLeslie -- 9/24/2009 2:54:36 PM >

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:52:53 PM   
Moonhead


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Isn't that sort of misrepresentation part of the reason guys crossdress in the first place?

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:53:42 PM   
MissLeslie


Posts: 29
Joined: 9/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Isn't that sort of misrepresentation part of the reason guys crossdress in the first place?


Can't respond to that one; I have no desire to understand their psyche, or psychology

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:56:36 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline
There is one thing you did not take into account and that is Inter-sexed persons. Which fit into no category you have presented above. And honestly what is the big deal? Unless someone out there is  not saying they were born as the opposite sex then what they identify as, then there would be a problem. Another problem  here on CM is they do not offer other terms for sexuality, like gender fluid or gender queer, which also leaves a lot of people not being able to accurately express themselves so they go to the next closest term, which would be Transgendered.




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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:57:35 PM   
lusciouslips19


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Well after your long disertation you should feel cleansed. Rant over and out..

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Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to MissLeslie)
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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:58:24 PM   
Lockit


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When I want someone teaching me facts... I prefere they do it without the personal agenda and anger.

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:59:07 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
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From: St George Utah
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Okay first the information was well stated and fasinating.

I think you should do community outreach and help the Tran-(Insert Identifier) community learn how to better present themselves. I think you would do this VERY WELL.

That being said I now have to move to the Opposite end of the Scale.

You gave me a bunch of Boxes and told me that Tran-(Insert Identifier) people fit into one.

I agree that Most Tranvestites are Hetrosexual and Dress the way they do because they fancy it.

Where as Transsexuals take the Physical Attraction and manifest it into a desire and Image. No everyone will relate I am not here to put people in boxes.

I think that what you are saying is VERY VERY WELL SAID, I just want you to know that there are many who will disagree with your belief systems, regardless of how well and clearly stated they are.

I guess in the end I would say that I think you need to relax. You will always have to do some clean-up work from the insufferables that came before you, don't let that be your mission.

If you are interested in learning how to take what you just put up here and turn it into a Presentation and get involved in your local community I would be more than willing to help.

Steel

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(in reply to lusciouslips19)
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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 2:59:40 PM   
mnottertail


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well, all them facts been on here many times. Them english girls have spoken often about this, for one or two.

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:02:10 PM   
allthatjaz


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Well thank you for such an informative post. Something you need to accept is that for people to accept you, you need to accept them.
I have lived amongst T-girls, have a good friend who is hermaphrodite, know 3 post op transgenders and many cross dressers and if they want to call themselves women and if they want to call themselves lesbians..... I personally have absolutely no problem with that. I don't feel mislead by any of them. I have been mislead by straight men in the past and I have even been mislead by a lesbian but I have never been mislead by any of the women you so scornfully mention in your post.

You know what? If your living this lifestyle and you want to be a puppy or a pony you can do that and people will accept you. Why the hell can a T-girl not be a lesbian?

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:06:01 PM   
MissLeslie


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Thanks Steel; I have done community outreach for many, many years in the transgendered communities of multiple cities, on a strictly pro-bono, or volunteer basis, since the mid 80s.  Perhaps it is more sterile than many would prefer, but my main point is that all of us do hope for honesty in the information we get presented to us by others.  Being truthful is the most important first step in developing a great relationship; whether or not the lifestyle is involved.

Perhaps we will work together on a public forum type of presentation.  Time will tell, but I am always open to working with intelligent and cool people  ; like you!

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:08:12 PM   
MissLeslie


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You are certainly entitled to that opinion; I love discourse and differing viewpoints.  I just prefer that people be truthful, like when I am being handed keys to a car by a valet that are not mine, and I am told:  "yes, those are your keys"  

(in reply to allthatjaz)
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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:10:12 PM   
OttersSwim


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All these "definitions"...all this anger...

If you didn't like the chatroom talk, move on...you don't like crossdressers, move on...you don't like CollarMe, move on...

Crossdressers are not taking over CollarMe, nor directing discussions...why, in our last CDTVWDC (Crossdressers and Transvestites World Domination Council) meeting, directing the discussion at CollarMe did not even come up! 

Our primary agenda item was a discussion of which boxed white wine was more girly - Black Box Chard or French Rabbit Pinot...

We had a side discussion of if it is more appropriate for a "Lady" to eat Chicago deep dish with a fork and knife or with her hands...that discussion ended as we could not get a quorum for a vote - half the girls were in the bathroom cleaning sauce from under their nails (EEEWWWWW!!!).

And we finally ended up with a majority vote to hold a bake sale to raise money for Mysty to replace her ceramic three-in-one curling iron (she looks so bad with straight hair...poor thing).

So as you can see, overrunning CollarMe with deceit, deception, and decrepitude never came up...




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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:13:28 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
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So if I ran into someone who has lied to me and then a few more come at me and misprepresent themselves I should judge, discredit, be predudice and ban the whole group who claim to be what they were, from my life?

Okay... you friggin submissive men are in trouble! hehe

That is just sad.. very sad and someone who is doing this cannot make a fair stand even for something worth standing for because of the attitude.

_____________________________

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:14:17 PM   
Sunnyfey


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I'm wondering how we are supposed to have a discussion when she hasn't refuted or rebutted anyone's statements.

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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:15:30 PM   
MissLeslie


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My oh my, sweetie are you having a bad hair day?  I just love it when people get rankled by my presentations!  I do not have access to the server statistics, nor the time to review each and every profile at CM, and I love it here at CM; I just KNOW you are not intentionally being snide with me, now are you?  I'll just chalk up your consternation to the fact that I actually managed to get the subject of honesty and cross-dressers on this bulletin board.  I have a brand new brush, never been used, maybe that will help your hair  

(in reply to OttersSwim)
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RE: Misrepresentation By Crossdressers Concerning Their... - 9/24/2009 3:16:35 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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well of the 50 or so permutations of folks this long purple post, do you got a percentage of those who really love sucking cock day in and day out in each category? That's what I'd be looking for.

curiously,
Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/24/2009 3:17:05 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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