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what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:25:37 AM   
wyldchyld2


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		within the hours-long conversations over the course of many, many weeks, i finally had my first scene with a Dom who has taken me under His wing.... He has stated He will be sceneing with other subs. ok.... i can truly understand this, after discussions about it....(no, i was not immediately understanding His "side" of this....but do now...) the most significant point in our conversations about His sceneing with others to me is this: He will scene with other subs, but at this time has no desire to mix sex into those scenes.

i thought that is way cool, because my vanilla assumption is that scene = sex. not so, i'm learning in TPE... and since i've always been monogamous in any relationship i've had, when i do finally get involved, it's with the trust and agreement that we'll not be screwing/having sex with others.... (and no, there's not an assumption that this is the ONE and only from here out.... people grow and change)


i know He is "holding back" with what He wants/needs/requires as a Dom right now, because i am new. each time, He is asking more and more of me, which i am happily willling to submit more and deeper, and to experience.. i am enormously appreciative of His patience and His wanting me to grow..... but now i realize my next question after the not mixing sex into the scenes, should have been....and sex is....?????

well i did not! lol live and learn....

sex to me is intimate sharing... having my legs spread open, being blindfolded and tied down, and then submitting to Someone's will is, well, IS intimate in my mind...... and because orgasm is involved, welllll THAT to me sort of kind of probably maybe is sex... that is something i just don't see me casually sharing with just Anyone.... (another thread, i know!!)

so now, it's been brought to my attention while recently discussing toys in His toybag, that others He scenes with will not use my insertables..... ok.... so my breath stops flowing, my eyebrows go up, my eyes almost pop out of my head, my brain starts spinning, and smoke begins to spew from my brain.... total total confusion reigns! lol

new conversation with Him (bless His heart!) .... excuse me, Sir, but i was under the impression sex would not be involved??? .... His reply.... well it won't be, it's just "finishing" her off if that's what is agreed upon before the scene begins.... HE won't be sharing of Himself or be brought to orgasm, but will not have a problem bringing someone else because of the power and control......

i have come to trust Him (it's taken a while because time tells all, i know) and i know His word is good.... so my question isn't about His and my sceneing or trust... this is truly just a curiosity of semantics!

i know i should have been drinking coffee instead of typing!! :) so my question is:

what constitutes sex?

thank Y/you for Y/your replies! interesting to pick Y/your thoughts!

< Message edited by wyldchyld2 -- 3/4/2006 6:36:26 AM >
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:35:59 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I am not a 'Clintonite'

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...

you may want to look for some orange sauce to serve it with...

(imnsho)

(in reply to wyldchyld2)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:39:28 AM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I am not a 'Clintonite'

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...

you may want to look for some orange sauce to serve it with...

(imnsho)


Nicely said!!!


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~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:40:52 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I am not a 'Clintonite'

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...

you may want to look for some orange sauce to serve it with...

(imnsho)



You beat me to the sarcasm... lol

All I was going to say is ask Bill Clinton... LOL




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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:42:28 AM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		i would say it depends on who you are talking to. i introduced a semi-vanilla friend to a kinky friend of mine. About a week later she called and asked "please explain what sex is?" i asked why and apparently the kinky friend had told her, she hadn't had sex in a long time. Then proceded to tell her about scenes where this one got fisted or she got fisted and on and on. Finally she called me one day and told me they had broken up. When i asked why she said "she is just not having sex with too many people and i can't handle it"

So back to the original question..to me, if your playing with my pussy and sticking things in it...it is sex...to others it is just a scene.

When i was at camp a few years back, my Mistress did a scene with another female sub and fisted her. To me it was sex, to my Mistress it was a scene. Now it did not bother me, in fact i went off and had a good time while she was busy, but i still considered it sex. According to a Syr in Chicago, its not sex if there is rope involved. i guess its one of those questions that is going to have many many answers. i hope this helps some.

(in reply to wyldchyld2)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:46:27 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		What if you're having 'sex' with the rope?

Just curious...

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:48:55 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		If anyone orgasms...that's sex
If there's penetration by an object or any body part...that's sex

My definitions of course.

(in reply to wyldchyld2)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:51:11 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		My theory is that he does not view "making someone cum" as having sex. Some men view that as a technical victory, an accomplishment, as you said he called it, "finishing her off". Since his own penis and orgasm are not involved, to him, it's probably not "sex".

Not saying I agree, just suggesting how his mind might be working.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:51:29 AM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Legally in Indiana, sex is any penitration past the outer labia ... doesn't even have to make it into the vagina, doesn't have to be a body part (as translated from the definition of rape in 2001).

(in reply to Aileen68)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 6:56:31 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Okay, I just want to say that you should have and maintain the integrity of your own sex toys. Anything that is used for insertion, anything that can have bodily fluids on them. I know that others will say, it's okay, you can put a condom on an insertible. But better safe than sorry, in my opinion. I would not want a toy used on me that has been inserted in another person. Just something to think about, and I would be adamant on this issue.

And if he's "finishing them off", to me, that's sex.

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 7:00:01 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		As you are discovering, people have differing definitions for "sex." The best thing is not to use the word but instead ask "what will and won't you do?" That gets right down to it.

As for the polar extremes, we have Bill Clinton's definition of sex and Janet Hardy's ("It gets me wet.")

You might want to read the book Ethical Sluts from Greenery Press. It discusses this subject in detail

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www.lovingdominant.org

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 7:01:48 AM   
FTopinMichigan


Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

When i was at camp a few years back, my Mistress did a scene with another female sub and fisted her. To me it was sex, to my Mistress it was a scene. Now it did not bother me, in fact i went off and had a good time while she was busy, but i still considered it sex. According to a Syr in Chicago, its not sex if there is rope involved. i guess its one of those questions that is going to have many many answers. i hope this helps some.


I'm with ya here! I'm thinking the rational is something along the lines of drinking a diet Coke, with a huge chocolate candy bar. The diet soda cancels out the chocolate calories too, right?

I see that "scene"...as having sex too!

K

(in reply to orfunboi)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 7:14:24 AM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		To me, I would say that sex is when someone achieves carnal gratification, regarldess of whether or not someone orgasms.

fergus

(in reply to wyldchyld2)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 7:30:48 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Okay, I just want to say that you should have and maintain the integrity of your own sex toys. Anything that is used for insertion, anything that can have bodily fluids on them. I know that others will say, it's okay, you can put a condom on an insertible. But better safe than sorry, in my opinion. I would not want a toy used on me that has been inserted in another person. Just something to think about, and I would be adamant on this issue.

And if he's "finishing them off", to me, that's sex.



Ok... I gotta ask this... and this is not sarcasm... this is an honest question.

Toys... washed.. dried.. santitized so to speak... (Condom on a toy?)

Not putting something in me that's been in another?????

Ok... no more sex then. Because I know.. 10 out 10 men i'm going to meet.. will have had their dicks in someone before me.. condom used or not.

There's something totaly OFF with this statment. Now before I'm lashed out on.. let me say.. i've only had 2 cups of coffee so far and might be missing something here.. But damn! It makes no sense.

Toys can be cleaned.... scalded in hot water... sanatized...

A mans dick can be washed and cleaned.. (don't think many Doms will go for the scalding in hot water.. lol)

But either way... it's not going to be UNUSED prior to getting to me.

Now I can to a point understand the toys. They're mine, don't want them used elsewhere. I paid for them, etc... whatever ones choice is on this.

But do people seriously think.. they're getting something UNUSED?... that wasn't bought personally by them in an adult toy store? (Or where ever they do their shopping ...web... catalog...etc... )

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 7:44:14 AM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		I have to agree with Fergus here. If one or the other (or both) achieve carnal gratification , it's sex. Period.

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Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to wyldchyld2)
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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 8:00:17 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

As you are discovering, people have differing definitions for "sex." The best thing is not to use the word but instead ask "what will and won't you do?" That gets right down to it.

As for the polar extremes, we have Bill Clinton's definition of sex and Janet Hardy's ("It gets me wet.")

You might want to read the book Ethical Sluts from Greenery Press. It discusses this subject in detail


I think you need to be specific as John suggests.

Which activities are ok, which are not.

Don't agree to anything on one list or the other that you cannot honestly be comfortable with or I believe you set yourself and the relationship up for a fall.

It doesn't have to be laid out in full right away. Your agreement could be that for now X, Q, and L activities are ok but you will continue talking as things move along. You could establish general guidelines but require checking in.

For example, Fox has to get my permission to go out even with his friends so he obviously needs my permission to have any intimate contact with others. I meet anyone he's going to play with and he has no interest in a vanilla relationship so it is all BDSM relationships. I meet this person, ask questions, then I give my opinion and set down limits to what I'm comfortable with him doing -- I'm rather easy going in this aspect and most of the time Fox will say "I doubt that will come up".

But this isn't just how I do things as the owner. With Tom my husband he and also also have an agreement where we meet each other's potentials and give impressions and have veto power over each other's choices. Fox, too, is expected to give me his impressions of people I'm interested in but he doesn't have veto power or the right to place limits on what I do. In fact, meeting my slave and my husband is a requirement for the negotiation step in my style of being poly and kinky cause if someone can't fit with my boys then negotiation would be a waste of my time.

Now the OP doesn't have the same authority I do given her scene role but I still think she has the right and the responsibility to talk to her dom about it and negotiate things especially since they are starting out.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 1:00:19 PM   
wyldchyld2


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

My theory is that he does not view "making someone cum" as having sex. Some men view that as a technical victory, an accomplishment, as you said he called it, "finishing her off". Since his own penis and orgasm are not involved, to him, it's probably not "sex".

Not saying I agree, just suggesting how his mind might be working.


and this is precisely what occurred to me! not agreeing or disagreeing, it really did occur to me that maybe our views of what constitutes sex are just different.... it's just interesting to see how, especially within this lifestyle, one simple word can all the difference make!!



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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 1:00:59 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wyldchyld2

what constitutes sex?




You are going to get a wide variety of answers with varying points of view. What is important here for you though, is that you understand what you think sex is and what the dominant considers sex and what the boundaries of that is for the two of you.

My personal view is that if one person is doing something to another that they know results in sexual arousal for one or both, then that is a sexual act. There are many different types of sexual acts from touching to intercourse and they each can range from highly intimate to extremely casual.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 1:05:44 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Toys... washed.. dried.. santitized so to speak... (Condom on a toy?)

Not putting something in me that's been in another?????


I'm talking about my level of comfort here.
I'm talking about insertable sex toys. Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about penises.
I would have a problem sharing insertable toys, definitely.
And yes, I've read on this board about people using condoms on vibrators/dildos, so evidently it happens.
If there is a process that can make toy sharing safe, I don't know what it is. I'm not disputing that it exists, I just don't know what it is. And I'd prefer to use my own toys, not someone else's that have been sanitized.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: what constitutes sex? - 3/4/2006 1:08:41 PM   
wyldchyld2


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		and this is what i am realizing with "effective" communication because i thought i'd covered my preference with a word (sex) that indeed afterall has many interpretations!
so now i'm realizing that asking "what does that mean to you?" is not only reasonable, but necessary.... even within the what will i do or not....in order to clarify perspectives....

learning, learning, learning!!! very interesting : )

thanks to all for Y/your responses!



quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

As you are discovering, people have differing definitions for "sex." The best thing is not to use the word but instead ask "what will and won't you do?" That gets right down to it.

As for the polar extremes, we have Bill Clinton's definition of sex and Janet Hardy's ("It gets me wet.")

You might want to read the book Ethical Sluts from Greenery Press. It discusses this subject in detail


(in reply to JohnWarren)
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