Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slavery sept 10th let your voice be heard and opinion

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Alternative Lifestyles in the News >> Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slavery sept 10th let your voice be heard and opinion

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Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slavery ... - 9/1/2004 5:59:30 AM

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Lifestylers can contact the High Court with opinions and voice their adults rights to concensual actions now on this case! This could take away Our right to practice as adults what We choose.

Former flower shop owner appeals sex-torture conviction

LINCOLN, Neb. - A former flower shop owner who sexually assaulted,
tortured and held a Texas man captive in the basement of his store says
his conviction should be vacated because his victim agreed to such
treatment by contract.

Roger Van of Wayne was sentenced to up to 30 years in prison on several
counts, including sexual assault and false imprisonment, related to the
2001 incident.

In an appeal to the Nebraska Supreme Court, defense lawyer Melissa
Wentling alleges that Van's conviction was unconstitutional because the
"Nebraska Legislature did not intend these statutes to apply to conduct
that occurs during a private, consensual relationship" involving bondage
and torture.

The high court is to hear arguments in the case on Sept. 10.

During Van's trial, his lawyers argued that the 36-year-old Houston man
consented to being beaten, bound and branded.

Before meeting in Wayne, Van and the man exchanged scores of messages and
negotiated a no-limits relationship involving torture and bondage, defense
lawyers said.

http://ap.theindependent.com/pstories/state/ne/20040824/2392979.shtml

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/1/2004 9:55:22 AM

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I'd be interested in hearing whether this came before the justice system because the bottom changed their mind, and really wanted to get the hell out of there. "No limits" is usually problematic. Having no safe word/limits with someone you've exchanged a few emails with is, in my opinion, idiotic and dangerous for all concerned.

Remember folks, a BDSM contract is, almost without exception, non-binding, void, and not worth the paper it's written on as far as any court is concerned. "Meretricious consideration" (any contract term which involves sex) will nullify any contract except for marriage, anything in the contract which sounds illegal will void it, any misunderstanding between the parties as to what they're agreeing to kills it too. There are tons of ways for contracts to go wrong, and I've yet to see one which would offer anybody any legal protection at all. But it may well be used to try to convince a jury that there, in your own handwriting, is proof that you're a "perverted sicko."

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/1/2004 1:49:40 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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ahh yes We all are perverted sickos
arnt We NoCalOwner

I cannot wait to see the results of this
latest Court Case either. It is afterall
a political year!

lets have a Perverted Sickos Party the
day its presented and hope its shown
on court TV! ~smiles~

I will disagree with Your asumation of
contracts NoCalOwner but Ill not go
into the longggg reasons why as
they are allready posted in another
thread. Enjoy the reading! JMO

(in reply to NoCalOwner)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/1/2004 1:53:59 PM

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Maybe everybody else here dont see what I see
I mean we are talking about two concensual adults
whose contract went bad and all tho true there is
accusations of assualt and enprisionment that was
suppose to have been concensual 30 years??
THEY SAID THEY WANT TO GIVE THIS ADULT 30
YEARS FOR PRACTICING HIS LIFESTYLE WITH
ANOTHER ADULT!!!
Murder will get you 25 years.
I guess its time to go out and
murder rather then to do sumthing
concensually as an adult now......

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/1/2004 3:00:55 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

Maybe everybody else here dont see what I see
I mean we are talking about two concensual adults
whose contract went bad and all tho true there is
accusations of assualt and enprisionment that was
suppose to have been concensual 30 years??

I wasn't privy to all the facts disclosed at trial, so I'm not in the position to cast judgement on the situation. But, if at some point during his stay with Mr. Van the 'unnamed victim' decided he wanted out, and he was refused, then Mr. Van is guilty of the offenses he was convicted of.

quote:

THEY SAID THEY WANT TO GIVE THIS ADULT 30
YEARS FOR PRACTICING HIS LIFESTYLE WITH
ANOTHER ADULT!!!

Not exactly.

quote:

Murder will get you 25 years.
I guess its time to go out and
murder rather then to do sumthing
concensually as an adult now..

Murder will get you a *minimum* sentence of 25 years. The five felony offenses that Roger Van was convicted of carry a total sentence of anywhere between 16 and 29 years (based on this docket). Unfortunately for him, the sentences are to be carried out consecutively rather than concurrently.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/1/2004 7:19:25 PM

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Status: offline

Thats My point stef

I see that at least
one persons awake
here......
shock journalizum skizzum
does get folks attention
tho you have to admit.

(in reply to stef)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/18/2004 8:20:42 AM

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Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline

The problem here is we do not know the whole story. I cannot back something I do not understand and just because they included life style in the story does not mean the guy was in the right. In these days of the Internet you meet all kinds of story tellers and wannabes. When you meet from the Internet you as a dominant take almost all the risk. But always, in my mind, you take the responsibility to make sure that the person you are considering is ready emotionally, physically and spiritually to walk the path you are going to take them on. It sounds to me (without info) That Van failed at this because this seemingly was a first meet, and seemingly involved a Novice Top with a Novice Bottom neither of which considered fully their actions.

This is the only way I can see this story as it is posted. If they were long term and both new the lifestyle, then I would Back Van. But as these things could only be proven by the Bottoms testimony something is wrong in Nebraska and I will not drag the lifestyle through the mud just to back someone who was wrong in his own belief of the power of this lifestyle. When both agree that a contract was written and understood by all parties it will carry minimal weight and will probably mitigate. Outside of that, I do agree with NoCalOwner. The ultimate responsibility falls on the Dom/me, top, Master etc. to ensure the safety and security on all levels of all involved and in R/t 20 years ago that was one of the first knowledge's presented to me. The Internet has watered education down.

Hemlock

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/18/2004 8:44:10 AM

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Before someone calls me on it, I am talking about true lifestylers. A sub/slave who meets a wannabe Dominant certainly has placed themselves in an unsafe situation.

(in reply to BellaNHemlock)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/18/2004 12:58:23 PM

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

this case was in the news here several years ago, and from what the local gossip is withing the houston Community, The man asked to be released numerous times, he consented only to a weekend of play withing limits and the man caged him, prevented him from returning hom and forced him to sign a contract. Of course this is all hearsay, but from what word on the street Houston were the man is from. He was extremely tortured and maimed and was coerced into signing a consentual statement.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to BellaNHemlock)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 9/29/2004 9:24:49 AM

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Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline

The contract, the conditions it is signed uder, and it's content are irrellevent to the case before the court. It is not possible to contractually sign away protected rights.

Hypothetically, if I signed a contract saying that I consented to sit in a cage for a week, even if it were considered legally binding, you would be legally obligated to release me from it if I so demanded. Mind you, you could then sue me for breech of contract.

(in reply to MaitresseEden)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 12/24/2004 3:08:06 AM

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Your absolutlty right Jerry

Its the BDSM position which should be
protected and not the offence that Im
pointing out. Not to mention that the
offences printed do not fit the punishment.

(in reply to JerryInTampa)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 12/24/2004 4:52:00 AM

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I agree, that two concsenting adults can do what they please.
I and my girlfriend have a limetless relationship, but this is based on that I can tell when she is braking, when she is passing out from whatever. We can do this because we know and trust each other very well.
I can't help thinking of that german cannibal, where the eaten guy agreed on it, actually replyed to an ad that said "i want to eat you".
I see the dilemma in judging the such a case (flowershop man), but the punishment seems very severe.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 12/27/2004 10:47:06 AM

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Joined: 8/12/2004
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This was an illegal contract to begin with.

You cannot sign away your rights-so most "slave contracts" are worth only as much as the parties within them, agree to abide by them. As soon as the bottom says no,and MEANS it, the contract is null and void.

In this case, the Top seems to have refused to accept this,and is now paying the consequences for his idiocy. I VERY much doubt he will win this case.

I would suggest that the rest of you who think you have *REAL* POWER over someone in a country with egalitarian laws, take note of this case.

Get over the fantasy. You do NOT, unless the bottom agrees TOTALLY.

(in reply to Expmfyr)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 12/29/2004 12:34:51 AM

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quote:

You cannot sign away your rights-

Actually this is totally NOT true
A person can and do sign away
their rights every day with
Powers of Attorneys and
other legal means by releiving
ones rights to another.

(in reply to RealityFix)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 12/30/2004 11:41:19 AM

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Sighs, let's not quibble about the differences between a LEGAL power of attourney, and an illegal contract,ok? You are splitting hairs, and this is TOTALLY different than what I spoke of,and taken out of context to boot.

You cannot under most state laws, CONSENT to assault and imprisonment by private individuals.

Only LAW ENFORCEMENT has been given that right. And that within strictly codified limits.

< Message edited by RealityFix -- 12/30/2004 11:44:41 AM >

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 1/1/2005 11:30:00 PM

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Status: offline

Here's a reasonably neutral story on the subject.

And here's the full court decision.

(in reply to RealityFix)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 1/2/2005 8:07:06 PM

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Thanks roughleather.

After mulling through it, it comes down to the state's right to protect it's citizens OVER our private right of privacy.

And pretty much affirms what I had said previously. Private individuals have NO recognized rights to control ,abuse ,or imprison others.

Dot your i's and cross your t's folks..The moment a bottom says NO and you refuse to honor that,you are a criminal in the eyes of the law (and even before then in many cases,if they file a compliant)..Your much vaunted power is an ILLUSION ,unless your bottoms agree COMPLETELY with what you are doing to them!

(in reply to roughleather)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 1/4/2005 7:59:07 PM

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Interesting case and I've read most of the decision. The guy sent to jail is going to be eating porridge for a very long time.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 1/13/2005 8:51:56 AM

domtimothy46176

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From: Dayton, Ohio area
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Even if BDSM contracts were accepted as legally binding, I would think they were much more likely to fall under the purview of civil statutes much as marriage is. Since marriage contracts don't allow the actual vows to be enforced, I can't imagine a BDSM contract being recognized to any greater degree. "...till death do us part" won't keep you from being prosecuted for trying to keep a spouse from leaving the marriage, so why would anyone expect a BDSM contract to give them protection against a false imprisonment charge just because it's specifically stated that confinement is requested?
Timothy

(in reply to Paulnz)

RE: Nebraska High Court to hear case of concensual slav... - 1/28/2005 11:05:03 AM

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Joined: 12/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

Here's a reasonably neutral story on the subject.

And here's the full court decision.

Hi. David here.

I have been a practicing lawyer for over 20 years and did a fair amount of criminal defense work during that time. All I can say after reading the court's decision is that both of the parties were guilty of what we refer to as felony stupid.

The "slave" in this matter managed to enter a situation with no escape hatch. While he may have felt that he didn't care what was done to him, that exit point should have been there. The fact that he did that was bad enough. The fact that the "master" in question allowed him to do so is at least an order of magnatude greater on the stupid scale. The reason I say that should be obvious: he is the one that had the potential for going to jail (as he did).

Without a safeword or the equivalent, how is the dom/top/master supposed to know if there is ongoing consent? Despite the pre-negotiated relationship, the actions taken by the "master" became criminal offenses when the "slave" withdrew that consent. While ordinarily the "master" would need to know that the consent was withdrawn, that lack of knowledge in this case was the result, in part, of his own doing. He failed to insist on a safeword not just for the slave's benefit but also for his.

Something to think about the next time someone wants to play without a safeword.

Just my thoughts on it. Your milage may vary.

David

(in reply to roughleather)

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