RE: Jesus Camp

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/15/2009 5:18:41 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I would rather stick to what I have been told, that silence isn't as strict a word as some people would prefere to make out for their own agendas.

That is an entirely different matter.

K.

It is and it isn't.
Take the sentance 'The party went wild'. Now we could assume by that the party in question turned into some sort of rumpus state... but were they enjoying it, or smashing plates? Or more literal, that people turned into animals - or that animals invaded it.... maybe a huge flock of wild geese soared into the room.
Or stating that *the crowd went beserk* now did they just get really excited and jumping around, or did they kill and mame people? It's all in the context of the environment, the people involved and who is doing the relating.

I'd also like to apologise to you as I re read my post and realised I missed the 's' of Mrs(so it read Mr and Mr)... otherwise it looked like I was making a rude comment to you and that wasn't my intention as I respect your opinions too much Kirata to have done that and I am very sorry if you took it that way, but I can see how it looked. My fault and my bad typo, I should have double checked my post before I made it.

the.dark.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/15/2009 5:38:12 AM

RCdc

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Considering most of your post are made to try to discredit the 'bible' as a book, you always seem very keen when it comes to picking parts of it that support your choices and using it as a literal translation. Oh what? That's funny... isn't that what you usually dismiss other people for doing? Like I said, I don't dig bias and people using it for their own agenda. Hence, I don't really take your discussions seriously, but they are fun to participate in...

Your post history can be paraphrased like this -

quote:

Original: GotSteel
I like what I say and will use anything that supports my agenda, even if I usually try to dismiss it for others.

And this -

quote:

Didn't you just chew out Master Jack for doing that?

No I didn't 'chew out' anyone. I had a pretty fruitful discussion with Jack actually - even he said that himself on the thread - not everyone feels that you have to 'chew somone off' to have a groovy discussion. I like a debate and I discuss peoples interpretations and the way they feel. Jack didn't have an agenda to make everyone believe how he did, he just had an idea and realistion about something that was personal to him and he wanted to speak up - and yes it's disheartening he was chased off by people, but that's his decision and I respect it. But he was kind and polite to me when he realised I wasn't attacking him on a personal level, even if he didn't control his anger with others.

I do find it rather low and disrespectful to bring someone into the discussion in a negative way(without them being able to speak up) to simply further their own agenda of attempting to bring into disrepute anothers(in this case my) words. But that isn't anything unusal and totally expected behaviour of you.
But I live in hope.

the.dark.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/15/2009 9:13:55 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Considering most of your post are made to try to discredit the 'bible' as a book, you always seem very keen when it comes to picking parts of it that support your choices and using it as a literal translation.

False:

1. I'm not trying to discredit the Bible as a book. It is a book, I have no problem whatsoever with its book status. Here's a past statement of mine that actually sums up my position:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I'm not claiming that every belief is equally harmful, the examples I've used are clearly out towards the harmful end of the scale. What I am trying to say is that faith is not a virtue. The news articles I brought up are extreme examples of how being sure of what one hopes for (faith according to Hebrews 11:1) instead of weighting the actual evidence for and against a decision can lead people to make extremely poor decisions.

I hope that the beliefs of the people of faith I’m talking to aren’t as harmful to themselves or others as my examples I’ve posted. I also hope they can see that the moment one becomes convinced that their hopes and their knowledge are the same thing they have disconnected from reality in the same manner as those people in my examples.

2. The Bible doesn't support my choices; portions of it actually call for me and a lot of other people to be murdered. I don't advocate that anyone actually follow any interpretation of the Bible, with the possible exception of Thomas Jefferson's version.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
No I didn't 'chew out' anyone......I do find it rather low and disrespectful to bring someone into the discussion in a negative way(without them being able to speak up) to simply further their own agenda of attempting to bring into disrepute anothers(in this case my) words. But that isn't anything unusal and totally expected behaviour of you.
But I live in hope.

If you don't like my word choice that's fine, maybe it's too strong. I'll go back and quote where you're contradicting yourself. Also Jacks not unable to speak up, I haven't blocked him. His form of Christianity is simple and obviously wrong enough that I'm actually hopeful that (at least to some extent) I'll manage to deprogram him. While we are talking about "low and disrespectful", I'd consider straw manning to qualify.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/15/2009 9:25:22 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
But it's important to be able to, in some way, uphold claims with some semblience of peace and knowledge.

Unlike yourself, I believe and have been taught that to know the bible, one has to know and understand the translations and have a basic understanding of the historical references. Otherwise it's all just guess work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
What makes the OP correct and them wrong. I would like scriptual references, hebrew and greek translation and historical back up. If he cannot produce these, then his apology is empty and void. (edit to remove 'any' - because it would be lazy if I did not request for them all).

I've been asking the same thing of you that you asked of Jack in this very thread; actually back up your position.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/15/2009 3:28:40 PM

RCdc

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Again, you call the 'straw man'. Do you really have nothing new to say?
Your post is full of them, including that you don't have Jack 'blocked' so he can post a response. Anyone remotely knowledgable of the discussion, would know that. And new readers will be made to think something completely wrong.
Usual, usual.

And like I said, I am not going to bother citing your usual wikisources you are asking for - because they don't really amount to anything. We have had this exact discussion before. You want proof and to be lazy and I won't do all the leg work for you, even when I have given you the basics. Like I said, it's not really anything that someone with the basic grip of language can understand the concept of. Just go have some lessons and learn language. But even if you know how the basic english language works, you can grasp the concept.

I'll give you this - The exact same word is used in Acts. Yet there, it's translated as 'quiet' - not silent. In 2 thess - as 'quietness' - as in to become calm. And yet, in Timonthy, the translation suddenly changes to silent?
Hmmm...

the.dark.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/15/2009 8:22:13 PM

GotSteel

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The burden of proof to support a claim rests upon the person making the claim. When you can't be bothered to support your claim; I'm not the one being lazy.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/16/2009 12:02:14 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

The burden of proof to support a claim rests upon the person making the claim. When you can't be bothered to support your claim; I'm not the one being lazy.

And yet when I try to offer you something you can look into using the bible in my very last sentance, you ignore it.
Precisely proving my point. It doesn't matter what one places out for you to look into or discuss (particularly as you are the one who brought up the whole 'silence common in the bible' thing), it's waste of time anyway - even though it's a verifiable and easy example. It's always been that way with you, if I thought you were worth the effort, I'd continue with you but I don't. And that is rare for me, but hey ho.

the.dark.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/17/2009 5:43:38 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
And yet when I try to offer you something you can look into using the bible in my very last sentance, you ignore it.

The burden of proof to support a claim rests upon the person making the claim. You shouldn't be expecting me to "look into" your claim to see if I can find evidence to support it.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/17/2009 11:57:05 AM

GotSteel

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There's a problem with your claim that the word silent in 1 Corinthians 14:34 is a misrepresentation of the word Hesuchia (ἡσυχίαν) which you would have noticed if you'd ever researched this like you told Jack to do. The word Hesuchia doesn't appear in 1 Corinthians 14:34. The word which is translated as silent in that passage is σιγατωσαν (sigao).

ΠΡΟΣ ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΟΥΣ Α΄ 14:34 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550)
αι γυναικες υμων εν ταις εκκλησιαις σιγατωσαν ου γαρ επιτετραπται αυταις λαλειν αλλ υποτασσεσθαι καθως και ο νομος λεγει

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/17/2009 6:44:46 PM

DedicatedDom40

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And just think, one of those Jesus Camp "graduates" almost became number 2 in charge. For 35 years of her 45 years, she was one of those crazy convusling Pentecostals.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94332540

I am sorry, but any political future for Carrie's mom is one scary prospect.

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