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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/11/2009 11:52:10 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I find it pretty ironic when a person picks on a denomination for taking the bible in a literal state, whilst taking the bible themself in a literal state.
What makes you so correct and them so wrong?

the.dark.

Instead of me providing more examples of religious sects that take the Bible literally, this is probably a better avenue.

Why would any rational person take this ancient book literally?

rule, your question is all cool but that doesn't mean you get to drop your part of this.
'faiths' are not the same as 'religious sects' - are you saying that you made an initial error in using the word 'faith'?
And whilst your question has merit, I am still waiting for the list of examples of faiths you said you were happy to provide.

the.dark.

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/11/2009 11:54:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Whilst that may be the case, that is a weak excuse that might allow a person to get away with not explaining... and I would still ask the same question of the OP regardless.
What makes the OP correct and them wrong. I would like scriptual references, hebrew and greek translation and historical back up. If he cannot produce any of these, then his apology is empty and void.

the.dark.

I never said I'd disagree with this assessment. ;)

But, this is one of the flaws inherent in faith: the divide between those who value its strength in retention and commitment to the complete ideal even under duress and, frankly, reality and those who value it by making the a priori presumption that it must make morally positive sense and only then seeking to interpret things in a way best suited for that outcome.

And, sadly, the zealots...the fanatics will always be the ones who with the piety race because they are willing to go that much farther with their presumption of "truth".

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/11/2009 11:55:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

All I got from the encapsulated blue text is that you either think or were proposing that Jack Van Deventer's insight into scripture is more enlightened than anyone else's possibly could be. He "asserted assured correct knowledge" of how the bible is to be interpreted.

Well, no. Pointing out that parables aren't literally true asserts a correct understanding of language, not theology.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/11/2009 11:56:45 PM >

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/11/2009 11:55:20 PM

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I believe you are either missing my point or trying to distort it to make you look smarter than everyone else. I dont deny that the women stayed when the men ran, but then, the women wouldnt have been tortured and killed as the men whould have been if they had been arrested. As for Christ having women around Him, He did indeed. He even saved one adultorious woman from being stoned to death. He also told the appostles to leave Mary Magdalane alone when she annonited His feet with expensive oils. So whats your point?

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/11/2009 11:57:27 PM

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I think the entire "many faiths" discussion is kind of a side topic. The point being that there are enough handfuls of people who espouse biblical literalism that we've had news stories in at least semi-recent memory of towns, for instance, picketing the non-inclusion of creationism in public schools.

"Faiths" and sects are so hard to even anchor down anymore as christianity has largely become a solitary a la carte religion for most.

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I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/11/2009 11:57:53 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Whilst that may be the case, that is a weak excuse that might allow a person to get away with not explaining... and I would still ask the same question of the OP regardless.
What makes the OP correct and them wrong. I would like scriptual references, hebrew and greek translation and historical back up. If he cannot produce any of these, then his apology is empty and void.

the.dark.

I never said I'd disagree with this assessment. ;)

But, this is one of the flaws inherent in faith: the divide between those who value its strength in retention and commitment to the complete ideal even under duress and, frankly, reality and those who value it by making the a priori presumption that it must make morally positive sense and only then seeking to interpret things in a way best suited for that outcome.

And, sadly, the zealots...the fanatics will always be the ones who with the piety race because they are willing to go that much farther with their presumption of "truth".

I know NZ, please accept my apology if you thought I was including you with those that I was questioning. I am just not big on giving people an easy excuse to their lack of biblical and historical knowledge when they base their faith on it.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:00:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Well, no. Pointing out that parables aren't literally true asserts a correct understanding of language, not theology.

K.

Who is saying which are parables and which are not?

I mean, if you're just objectively assserting (from outside the bubble of the conversation) that the entire book is a collection of parables, then yes.

From the perspective of an acolyte, however, the only determining factor as to which are parables and which are literal declarations is the degree to which the believer believes s/he has the clearer telepathic bond with said deity.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:01:49 AM

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Having served in the Intelligence field in the service for 15 years out of my 20 year career, its nice to see someone who is familiar with our credo: "if you cant dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull shit." What in the hell did this post mean?

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:04:30 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53

I believe you are either missing my point or trying to distort it to make you look smarter than everyone else. I dont deny that the women stayed when the men ran, but then, the women wouldnt have been tortured and killed as the men whould have been if they had been arrested. As for Christ having women around Him, He did indeed. He even saved one adultorious woman from being stoned to death. He also told the appostles to leave Mary Magdalane alone when she annonited His feet with expensive oils. So whats your point?

But I am smarter! Well, when it comes to the bible anyway. (That was sarcasm and a joke, for those lacking both).

quote:

the women wouldnt have been tortured and killed as the men whould have been if they had been arrested

And you get that knowledge from where??? This was a historically and notorious patriarcial society. Do you have any concept of the societies that existed at that time and of the times of the OT?
Regardless... you believe it's cool for men to run away because they might die for their faith or belief in something? I would love to see the outcry of men running away from the front line in afghanistan.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:05:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I know NZ, please accept my apology if you thought I was including you with those that I was questioning. I am just not big on giving people an easy excuse to their lack of biblical and historical knowledge when they base their faith on it.

the.dark.

Silly dark! You know me better.

I was just answering your question as to why some views are more easy to lean up against in order to look bigger.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:07:42 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53
Having served in the Intelligence field in the service for 15 years out of my 20 year career

,

Really? Doesn't show. Amazing what the US tax dollars are wasted on.

quote:

What in the hell did this post mean?

Which one, and I wil respond.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:09:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Who is saying which are parables and which are not? I mean, if you're just....

Oh ferchrissake....

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. ~Matthew 13:13

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables ~Mark 4:11

How's that work for ya?

K.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:09:52 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I know NZ, please accept my apology if you thought I was including you with those that I was questioning. I am just not big on giving people an easy excuse to their lack of biblical and historical knowledge when they base their faith on it.

the.dark.

Silly dark! You know me better.

I was just answering your question as to why some views are more easy to lean up against in order to look bigger.

*enjoys being admonished by NZ*
Makes me feel all fuzzy....

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:11:21 AM

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now you try misdirection. how does Afganastan figure in this? The men that ran in the NEW TESTEMENT knew that if they died, Jesus' work would die with them. Ever heard discretion is the better part of valor? I get my "knowledge" from A) my Bible, B) my 12 years of public school, i.e. history classes,C) the numerous sermons I have sat through, and D) intelligent discussions with people who also use facts when they discuss things (unlike some here. no sarcasam intended. just the truth)

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:13:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Oh ferchrissake....

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. ~Matthew 13:13

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables ~Mark 4:11

How's that work for ya?

K.

So, Jesus admits to speaking to people in nothing but parables. This raises more questions than answers.

And all the happy OT stuff that happened prior to Jesus announcing his figurative speech?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:14:51 AM

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now disassociation and taking things out of context. perhaps you are smarter than I give you credit for. If you've lost track of which posts we are talking about, perhaps you should raise the white flag and surrender. As for the insult to my service and dedication to my country, fuck you both! Did you serve? I doubt it. I dont think you have the balls.

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:16:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

*enjoys being admonished by NZ*
Makes me feel all fuzzy....

the.dark.

Remember the tone some D/s folk get when the TPE discussions come back around in their cyclic manner? For some, being able to chastise the extreme makes their own kinks/views more seemingly acceptable comparatively.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:20:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
You can start listing those "many many faiths" any time you like.

A

B

Baptist Bible Fellowship International

C

D

Destiny Church (New Zealand)

F

G

General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.

I

I cont.

N

New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches

S

Southwide Baptist Fellowship

W

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fundamentalist_denominations"

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:23:10 AM

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I saw the title of this thread and thought "that's a bit harsh - I mean I know he wasn't exactly macho but still ...".

(in reply to MasterJack53)

RE: Jesus Camp - 11/12/2009 12:23:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

So, Jesus admits to speaking to people in nothing but parables. This raises more questions than answers.

Well now, not to worry. The only thing that really matters is the degree to which the believer believes s/he has the clearer telepathic bond with said deity. I'm sure you'll do fine.

K.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

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