RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist"

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 10:41:47 AM

HunterS

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quote:

Out of curiosity, what would Pearl Harbor be but an attack on the US and a defensive response?

Perhaps a little research on the prelude to WW II would be in order here.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 10:55:06 AM

tazzygirl

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Your referring to the embargo?

The Roots of War
The roots of the Japanese attack lie deep within cultural and institutional factors within Japan and the U. S. and in the longer term U. S. - Japanese relationship, beginning with the forced opening of Japan for mercantilist purposes by Commodore Perry, and longstanding racist attitudes on the part of both parties. Some modern historical revisionists have attempted to show that an oppressive and bullying U. S. forced Japan into a corner, where it had no choice but to fight. From the Japanese military viewpoint this is correct, since the U. S. had embargoed certain strategic goods (such as oil and scrap metal), and within a few years, Japan would have used up its reserves and been unable to strike. However, this embargo was a response to Japan's cruel and brutal war to seize China for the Empire. Japan later entered into the the Tripartite Agreement, where Japan, Germany, and Italy were bound to mutual support in fighting wars (forming the "Axis" powers). There were a number of political factions within Japan that saw the error in the Tripartate Agreement, believing that it could ultimately lead to a war that it could possibly loose. One reason that these forces were ineffective in stopping this movement toward war is that constitutionally (as a parliamentary democracy), representatives of the Japanese military held seats in any cabinet, and by vacating these seats could bring down any government that it disagreed with. The final result of this was that General Tojo became Prime Minister. The military was thus not under strict civilian political control, but rather the opposite, with the civilian government subject to military dictates. Despite a veneer of democratic institutions, the social structures at the time were essentially feudal, and remnants of these structures can still be found within Japan.

http://www.ccdemo.info/PearlHarbor/PearlHarborDayRemembered.html

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:00:53 AM

popeye1250

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When the British forceably boarded American ships that in itself is an act of war.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:01:32 AM

slvemike4u

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Such larger political realities have little to no meaning to the soldier killed in action ...

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:14:37 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

When did they quit giving that option in court? I served with two people in the early '90s who had been given that choice. Both were basically good guys who screwed up and a judge gave them a chance to make something out of themselves. I had been told even that the courts no longer gave such options... then I met those two guys.

The US Navy wasn't allowing it in the mid 80's when I enlisted. They specifically asked if you were trying to enlist as part of a court order.

Yep. The Air Force wanted to know the same thing. It was possible to lie about it though. I know a couple of guys who enlisted under such conditions. Mixed results.

I wonder though, if they have taken into account those disqualifying factors which can be waived on further review?

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:27:30 AM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Your referring to the embargo?

The embargo was but an aspect of the prelude to WWII. So no I was referring to quite bit more.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:27:49 AM

slvemike4u

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I was rejected in the late 70's due to a "predisposition to cancer".I had had a lymph node biopsy at age 14...they suspected I had Hodkins disease(a form of leukemia).....I obviously didn't..the large umbrella those Doctors placed the result of the biopsy under was..."an undisclosed blood disorder"...lol(they had to tell my mother something after scaring the shit out of her)
The Navy in their infinite wisdom decided that the risk of my health blowing up in their faces was to great.....despite scoring so well on the entrance exam that they had orriginally offered me a great 6 year enlistment....they would send me to San Diego for 2 years of schooling(as a nuke eng.) and I would repay Uncle Sam with 6 yrs of service....all of this after the recruiter told me how to get around New Yorks GED law...which stated one could not take the test till ones high school class had graduated......they simply sent me to New Jersey and advised me to lie on the form....lol
Long story short( and the kick in the ass) was a Congressional waiver was obtained by way of writing my Congressmen....I took the oath and went down to Orlando for basic......only to wash out of basic due to a wholly unconnected health issue.
p.s.in adult hood I allowed myself to be subjected to two further biopsies...before I swore off letting ENT doctors anywhere near my glans...which do seem to have a tendancy every couple of years to become enlarged
Under the heading of life is ironic (and cruel at times) I wound up burying my younger brother when I was 35(he was 34).....cause of death....leukemia......and he was completely healthy as a child...while I was constantly sick.Life sucks

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:35:47 AM

rockspider

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Well the way the tread is set up is mixing pears with aples. That 70 % of american men is downright unfit and overweight is a bomb under the future economy and the health care system. The answer might be to increase taxes massive on unhealthy stuff and use the money generated on first the health reforms sorely needed in USA and secondly to subsidise healthy food. The day a helping of nice lean steak with a good salad sells cheaper than a helping of KFC or a pizza it would go a long way to aleviate the problem.
Whether the draft is a good idea is a totally different. I am totally against it. Firstly, a soldier who is made to join and on a paltry reward, with the possibility of death or injury with a miserable life to follow, is hardly a good place to start. The young man or woman who join it because it is a well paid carriere move with exellent benefits and a secure future even if disabled and good death benefits so his family is secure for life, is a much better choice. In todays world where warfare is becoming increasingly sofisticated, the draft with relative short education versus the long term and thereby superior training of the professional soldier is much to prefer. This can be borne out really on a few statistisk. We have 2 types of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. The one is ordinary guys. Drafted for 9 months and finished with that. Then they sign up for a tour to the warzone. The other is our "Hunter" the absolute elite 500 aplicants 100 get s the chance and they compete until only 10 left. They recieve all kind of specialised training and carry very long contracts. The truth is that the ordinary guys so far have drawn quite heavy losses for the number there. The Hunters have not one yet. Their successrate is a cloose garded secret as is the number of them there and the nature of their mission. But i believe that maybe not as extreme as the hunters much better trained soldiers is the way forward and drop the draft.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:42:01 AM

tazzygirl

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You are such a wealth of information. The way i see it, Japan attacked US soil, making us the defenders. Spin it as you wish.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 11:55:45 AM

slvemike4u

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Spin baby spin....you would think he would be dizzy by now Tazzy. And all in an effort it would seem to denigrate the sacrifice of US servicemen and woman...though perhaps thats just my spin on his spin....now I'm dizzy!

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 11/21/2009 11:57:10 AM >

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 1:24:04 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are such a wealth of information. The way i see it, Japan attacked US soil, making us the defenders. Spin it as you wish.

You are aware,I am sure, of just how that particular piece of real estate became part of the U.S.?
I am sure you are also aware of the "AVG" (flying tigers).

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 1:31:26 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Spin baby spin....you would think he would be dizzy by now Tazzy. And all in an effort it would seem to denigrate the sacrifice of US servicemen and woman...though perhaps thats just my spin on his spin....now I'm dizzy!

I should think rather than denigrate the "sacrifice" of those in the service I am instead pointing out the subtrefuge used to induce said service and the lies that are used to justify continued international thugery.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 1:37:23 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

When the British forceably boarded American ships that in itself is an act of war.

So what you are saying is that every ship you boarded while you were a revenue agent in the Cost Guard was an act of war declared by the captain of your ship. Please correct me if I am mistaken but I thought the constitution reserved the war making power for the House of Representatives.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 1:58:54 PM

switch2please

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

This is good to know.

If the Taliban comes over here and attacks your house, you aren't defending it, as we invaded that country. You are the aggressor.

Say hi to Alice and the White Rabbit for me.

Which country, exactly? The Taliban are not defending the interests of any particular government as far as I know...
The KKK started in the US, but that certainly doesn't imply that all Americans are members or that our foreign policy is decidedly white supremacist. Your comment is oversimplified and much too broad a generalization.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 2:02:51 PM

switch2please

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider

The answer might be to increase taxes massive on unhealthy stuff and use the money generated......to subsidise healthy food. The day a helping of nice lean steak with a good salad sells cheaper than a helping of KFC or a pizza it would go a long way to aleviate the problem.

Well said.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 2:27:25 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

When the British forceably boarded American ships that in itself is an act of war.

So what you are saying is that every ship you boarded while you were a revenue agent in the Cost Guard was an act of war declared by the captain of your ship. Please correct me if I am mistaken but I thought the constitution reserved the war making power for the House of Representatives.

H.

Revenue agent? care to explain?

quote:

Please correct me if I am mistaken but I thought the constitution reserved the war making power for the House of Representatives.

You are quite wrong.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/21/2009 2:28:48 PM >

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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 2:31:19 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

This is good to know.

If the Taliban comes over here and attacks your house, you aren't defending it, as we invaded that country. You are the aggressor.

Say hi to Alice and the White Rabbit for me.

Which country, exactly? The Taliban are not defending the interests of any particular government as far as I know...
The KKK started in the US, but that certainly doesn't imply that all Americans are members or that our foreign policy is decidedly white supremacist. Your comment is oversimplified and much too broad a generalization.

I couldn't find the White Rabbit but Alice says hi - she always enjoys the delusions of the Mad Hatter

Um....that would be the one we invaded, not the ones we didn't. Or don't call it a country. Doesn't change the example.

Your jump of analogies is irrelevant.

If you want to argue with Hunter that no U.S. soldier has ever defended the country, join him.

Construct an argument first.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 3:29:03 PM

switch2please

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I said absolutely nothing denying that U.S. soldiers have defended this country.
Lately.....? This is debatable, but irrelevant to the point I was attempting to make.

It absolutely changes the example - the Taliban are a political entity of their own, and not acting on behalf of any specific country. Rather, they are acting against a specific group of people - admittedly focused on Americans (which is understandable - we do tend to hog the media spotlight) but their targets are hardly limited to within US borders. If the Iraqi military decided to attack, we would be able to formulate not only a defensive strategy, but an offensive - because they are based in Iraq. If the Taliban formulated an attack - again - what exactly could we do that we haven't already tried? I was merely trying to point out the flaws in your analogy. Aggressor or not, I don't see a difference when we're discussing casualties. No matter who makes the first move in a game of chess, the pawns lost on either side number the same. Then again, in chess, it's easy to say definitively who won. In war? Not so much.

I'm curious about your thoughts on the original topic...? How do you think a lack of fit available military personnel will affect our future as an imperialist nation *ahem* I mean international peacekeeper?

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 3:31:52 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

I said absolutely nothing denying that U.S. soldiers have defended this country.

Then you are talking about something completely different than the topic you're replying to.

Context. Wonderful thing.

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RE: "70% Of Young People Unfit to Enlist" - 11/21/2009 3:33:55 PM

kdsub

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Simply put...I don't believe that to be true..crock of shit

Butch

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