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Tounge tied at the party - 3/19/2006 2:36:49 PM

Posts: 154
Joined: 3/18/2006
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Hi everyone, I'm new here.

I went to my first ever play party a couple of months ago with a guy I was getting to know.

While there I got hit on couple of times, no big deal, all of my teen and adult life I've had people come on to me.

The last guy to hit on me kind of bothered me though.

He said I seemed somewhat ambigious. I'm MtF transsexual, so ambigoius can be taken as meaning androgynous in my mind. Considering how I was dressed I thought maybe it was possible I looked a little inbetween genders. Although green velvet body suit, PVC pants, leather boots, braided steel and leather belt with the kind of hairstyle and make up I was wearing doesn't seem to me that I would look androg.

But he then clarified that he couldn't tell if I was Domme or Sub. I said instantly that I was a switch. At this point he was just asking questions and I was just answering matter of factly.

So his follow up was to ask "So you mean you are Domme for men but sub to women?"

And that's when I kind of wondered what chemical he was inhaling all night.

He also at this point put his hand on my arm, and I really had to struggle to not loose my temper over that since I had given no indcations, that I know of, that suggested that he was allowed to be that direct.

But I said very nicely that I could be Domme or sub for a man or a woman. So as to clarify what I meant by switch for me.

Then the hand fell away, thank god. He seemed to not get it. But at least it got him to stop touching me.

I added that I have a lot of dualities, that I was bi , switch, and trans. He walked away without saying another word.

I dunno but I guess I thought that most people in the scene would know what a switch was.

But I see by a lot of the other posts here that it seems sometimes not everyone gets it. My experience says that too.

I'm just wondering if anyone has managed to come up with some effective ways to deal with a person like I encountered?

I don't live and die for play parties but it would be nice to visit occasionally and I get the feeling I'm just clueless about the customs and such at one. I'm usually more at home in queer punk/goth venues which allow for some expression of kink too.

< Message edited by DigitBox -- 3/19/2006 2:37:39 PM >

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/19/2006 2:48:48 PM

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

So he's clueless. Why would you let that affect your life?

One guy, one party. Nothing that can be projected into a larger "truth."

How to deal with him? Give a laugh, put the label "idiot" on your mental picture of him, move on.

_____________________________

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(in reply to DigitBox)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/19/2006 2:56:50 PM

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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LOL,

Well said, John you old wordsmith!!!!!

OP,

See here, if you are at a social gathering and someone grasps your arm as they speak......and you get hinky enough about it to have an actual freak.........

Uff Da.
gonna be a long road to hoe.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/19/2006 3:06:03 PM

Posts: 403
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline

Yeah...What JW said...

I wouldn't have felt bad about asking the Host/ess of the party about their House Rules and such, if you didn't feel too clued-in. I wouldn't have given a second thought to chastising the guy that touched you in that uninvited sort of way, either, but maybe that's just me.

I hope that one idiot doesn't put you off from future play parties. Welcome to CM, btw.

_____________________________

"The reason the mainstream is thought of as a stream is because of it's shallowness." - George Carlin

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most..." - Ozzy Osbourne

(in reply to DigitBox)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/19/2006 8:12:03 PM

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Joined: 2/9/2006
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He was clueless so don't let it bother you. Alot of peeps if you don't say Im definitely Dom or Sub, they have no idea what to make of you simply because they have a one track mind. I am bisexual, I am a Dominant Switch that very rarely subs and thats only to one man. When I tell people this they either nod, say thats cool or have a look of total befuddlement on their faces. Some people think you have to be one or the other that there is nothing imbetween and those are the poor souls I try to steer clear of.

~Lashra

(in reply to TheShadows)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/19/2006 8:15:30 PM

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People like to think in black and white...I tell them I'm an oreo

(in reply to Lashra)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/19/2006 8:17:38 PM

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Joined: 3/18/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheShadows

Yeah...What JW said...

I wouldn't have felt bad about asking the Host/ess of the party about their House Rules and such, if you didn't feel too clued-in. I wouldn't have given a second thought to chastising the guy that touched you in that uninvited sort of way, either, but maybe that's just me.

I hope that one idiot doesn't put you off from future play parties. Welcome to CM, btw.

I dunno, it was a whole mix of resons I suppose that I reacted the way I did. The guy I was invited to the party was an aquaintence of the host and I didn't want to make too much noise by getting really angry at the guy putting the touch on me. Plus I tend to be polite unless someone really tries to manipulate or hurt me.

The guy I was with saw what the guy touching me was doing and commented afterward he wasn't thrilled by it. I agreed with him that was a less that thrilling moment. He told me that if the guy touching me hadn't stopped he was going to make an issue of it himself

The guy I was invited to the party by had his hands on me plenty of times that night but then it was kind of sort of a date so I didn't have any issues with him touching me. We had already established a level of trust so I was okay with contact from him.

Anwhow I will still go to play parties, but I'll be a little more assertive when I get unwanted touching.

Thanks everyone.

(in reply to TheShadows)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/20/2006 6:46:49 AM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DigitBox
I dunno but I guess I thought that most people in the scene would know what a switch was.

Depends on the playspace. A lot of play spaces are either very male dom/fem sub focused or very all over the place.

As well, there is no clear definition of what a "switch" is.

quote:

I'm just wondering if anyone has managed to come up with some effective ways to deal with a person like I encountered?

Your response seemed to be the best one. He was very rude to touch you like that and assume familiarity and rude to presume his definition was the correct one to apply to you. Chalk it up to a dork lacking in social skills. They happen.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DigitBox)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/20/2006 6:56:28 PM

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Joined: 9/14/2005
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Never be afraid of making a scene if someone has their hands on you in an inappropriate manner. Nearly every group I've ever encountered has as a primary rule that you do not touch what does not belong to you without the owner's permission. In your case, it sounds like the owner is YOU, and a politely worded, but firm, "Remove your hand(s) immediately," is certainly warranted in that situation, and no one would fault you for it.

And, as John Warren said... the guy's an idiot. Unfortunately, they're everywhere. But most of them are easily intimidated if you stand up for yourself and don't let them get away with it.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to DigitBox)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/20/2006 11:43:14 PM

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Joined: 10/22/2005
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Well yet another reason to get the "Bi , Poly, Switch and I still wont play with you !" Tshirt ......

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/21/2006 12:17:24 PM

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii
Status: offline

Hi,

I think there's no rule that you have to be this or that or act like a certain way. One of my pet peeves are people who think you have to be a submissive in a certain way or dominate in a certain way (and it's always their way that's the right way).   As long as what you're doing is safe and consensual, I don't think the rest of it should matter to anyone else.

I've definately had a few incidents where I was submitting and some know it all jackass thought I should be a different kind of slave.   I don't play the role of the sensual slave who adores her Master and who is a loved pet for the Master.   I also don't do pain very much so my way of submitting is through humiliation (physical, verbal, public and private), exhibition and of course bondage.   I dominate very similar to how I submit. I don't like to give pain and frankly having some girl (or guy) trying to be the sensual loved slave gets boring for me pretty quick.   Some don't do it that way, fine, but don't tell me how to do it.   I don't let people like that bother me, you shouldn't let it interfere with what you enjoy.

I'm similar I think in that I have a lot of different things going on. Im a bi switch so some would argue that I can't make up my mind, but I would say if you enjoy both roles, why limit yourself?   I like having options!    Anyway, it sounds like you handled things fine.   Touching anyone without permission of either themselves or their owner is never okay, even if it seems to be done in a friendly way.

maliia
maliia.com

_____________________________

If you want to get to know me better, visit my personal (free and non-commercial) webcage at www.maliia.com. Read my blog, stories, fantasies and experiences and see more photos of me. Plus a great open bondage forum community and chat.

(in reply to Dollbecky)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/21/2006 10:47:09 PM

SuzanneSxySadist

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Suzanne SxySadist
Status: offline

Hey Digitbox ... this is my first official post here but this thread caught my eye and I just wanted to pop in and add my two cents.

I have been in the lifestyle as a switch for quite a few years now and it is also my experience that no matter where you go, you will always find people that don't know quite what to make of switches, let alone bisexual or trangendered ones. This may be due to several different reasons but what immediately comes to mind for me are folks whom I have met even with many years in the scene who are uninterested, unwilling or unable to embrace both sides of the dynamic the way that many of us can, and have decided instead to simply label switches as "confused" rather than take the time to try to understand what makes us tick (although that varies from switch to switch).

However, it may just be that some others have not been in the scene long enough to have the points of reference, experience or education in such things as the range of possible dynamics as well as proper etiquette. I would tend to think that someone that was invited to a private party should have some education but this is sadly not always the case. I would suspect that this may be the case with this guy since he went so far as to touch you with out permission. While most of us in the scene consider this to be incredibly rude, a simple touch on the arm is not considered so out of line in many other circles, certainly not something I would send him to the firing squad or automatically label him a "clueless idiot" for.

I get approached by neophytes and “experienced” folks all the time that know absolutely nothing about protocol, etiquette and simple polite behavior in clubs and at private parties as well, and trust me I have met some real winners over the years. But it is up to me to be able to decide how best to handle each situation as it arises. I have absolutely turned “Kali” on a few that have approached me or my partner in the middle of a scene but that has often been from the need to protect the scene, and my partner’s space as much as mine in the moment and there are times that fierceness is the fastest and most reliable way to assure a speedy retreat. Of course it is far easier for me to access that “step away right now or I will rip your head off” energy when I am in my dominant space.

In a social setting, I have the opportunity to take a breath and assess things a bit more leisurely and discern whether this is a time when the greater good could be served by explaining a few things to the offending party more calmly. If you are made to feel uncomfortable by anyone’s unwanted physical attention, you should and could have stopped it immediately with a straight forward but civil: "It is impolite to touch people or their things without asking, please do not do that again." By adopting a non hostile attitude while still protecting yourself and your space, you could give him the benefit of the doubt and do him and others he will come in contact with the favor of educating him a bit. He may or may not be open to learning, that is on him and if he persists then it is certainly proper to be more insistent in your approach so as to not allow yourself to be victimized by his advances. You absolutely should NOT endure unwanted touch because that is not healthy for you spiritually, emotionally or physically.

As far as answering his questions, that again is on you as to what you are comfortable revealing about yourself. You could simply tell him as someone else suggested that you prefer to keep your options open and when you meet someone you are interested in playing with you will negotiate what role you play with them, but that it is not really something you wish to discuss with a stranger. He should take that as a hint.

As a related note I would like to add that I have often lamented about clubs that are more than willing to pack the place with male “tourists” who are often all but jerking off right on the players or approaching them in ways that drive them away from the establishments While I understand that the club owners need to make their rent and the single males are the best source of income, the catch 22 is .. they (the tourists) make the players uncomfortable so then they (the players) stop coming and then the tourists have nothing to watch so they stop coming and the clubs close. Everyone loses. If they (the club owners) or we (the playing patrons) put a bit more effort into educating the tourists and neophytes, then we could possibly help the clubs to survive and it could end up as a win - win - win all the way around but the process is not always an easy one and of course some of these guys are definitely beyond help.

Anyway, it is late and this is far longer than I intended. I look forward to participating more on this board soon and hope to be welcome to share more thoughts wit you and learn from others points of view as well in the future.

_____________________________

Namaste’ Suzanne SxySadist

“Sensual sadism is an artform, the body & soul is my canvas”

http://www.sxysadist.com
http://www.shibarilover.com
http://www.nursenasty.net
http://www.smantics.com

(in reply to DigitBox)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/22/2006 7:02:23 AM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneSxySadist
As a related note I would like to add that I have often lamented about clubs that are more than willing to pack the place with male “tourists” who are often all but jerking off right on the players or approaching them in ways that drive them away from the establishments While I understand that the club owners need to make their rent and the single males are the best source of income, the catch 22 is .. they (the tourists) make the players uncomfortable so then they (the players) stop coming and then the tourists have nothing to watch so they stop coming and the clubs close. Everyone loses. If they (the club owners) or we (the playing patrons) put a bit more effort into educating the tourists and neophytes, then we could possibly help the clubs to survive and it could end up as a win - win - win all the way around but the process is not always an easy one and of course some of these guys are definitely beyond help.

I feel sorry for the newcomers who don't KNOW that's what the club atmosphere is. However, some kinky people LIKE that sort of grungy/touristy/wanker atmosphere and can really get into it. And the tourists are kinksters in their own way as well. Obviously those clubs are doing enough business to keep the atmosphere as it is.

The Crucible has completely different mixes depending on which night you go. Some nights are very Ds oriented and het crowds. Some nights are open public soirees. Some nights are swinger focused. Some nights are specific club or event focused. And some nights mix everyone together. Each time could have a completely different feel to it. I like that it offers something for everyone.

While I agree, nothing excuses basic manners and social graces in public, this is one chica who can enjoy the touristy environment, as long as I know that's what it's going to be.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SuzanneSxySadist)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/22/2006 6:54:47 PM

SuzanneSxySadist

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Suzanne SxySadist
Status: offline

I agree that themed nights can offer something for everyone and would be another possible solution and that there are definitely times that the encroaching tourists can add to a scene. I have taken exhibitionist attention sluts and those craving public humiliation out to places where I knew I could easily draw a crowd several times but more often then not I have found the wrong kind of attention right on top of your scene a nuisence and distraction at best.

I really love the Crucible and have mostly been there on BDSM nights. I feel it is the nicest BDSM club I have ever been to and I have never had this sort of issue arise there. I am really looking forward to seeing the new area of it when I can get down there again. :) The Hartford area has a sweet little place as well and it is mostly a private / members only one that has a respectful and educated crowd.

I am unfortunately located in the NY area and am pretty much stuck with Paddles and similar tourist traps for public play. It won't stop me from going to the NY clubs but I certainly prefer to play in my own dungeons or at private parties since it suits my approach to connection and spirituality better, plus the rules are generally less prohibitive. <wink>

_____________________________

Namaste’ Suzanne SxySadist

“Sensual sadism is an artform, the body & soul is my canvas”

http://www.sxysadist.com
http://www.shibarilover.com
http://www.nursenasty.net
http://www.smantics.com

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/23/2006 12:48:41 AM

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Joined: 1/11/2005
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By a little more assertive, do you mean the next one might be needing ice for their groin? Okay that might be a little over the top but hey idiots need really big signs right?

(in reply to SuzanneSxySadist)

RE: Tounge tied at the party - 3/23/2006 11:16:05 AM

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Joined: 3/18/2006
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quote:

Actually there is a classic move in Jujitsu that uses a pressure point just under the ear near the jawline. It's moderately paintful without causing any real damage. But it would let me shove him away. There is a nerve in close proximity. That's what I like about Jujitsu and Hapkido. They teach how to do locks, holds, and breaks (out of locks and holds) that are good for feather weights like me to keep safe.

Still I'm more likely to just say something verbally that communicated without a doubt that I wasn't the least bit interested. If he really kept it up I'd make sure I got one of the DM's attention. There were like 3 of them circulating in the club.

(in reply to oddity83)

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