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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:21:47 AM

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quote:

Go to Yellowstone - the dumpsters are locked, and it is illegal there to feed the wildlife. There is a reason for that - the rangers there have learned over the years that if you feed the wild animals you interrupt their normal learned behavior patterns, and because of that you're killing them. They become beggars and theives, they become overly aggressive and they have to be destroyed.

It is amazing how two people can observe the same phenomenom and come away with completely opposite understandings of what they have witnessed.
It is true that the normal behaviour paterns of the bears is interupted when they learn that it is easier to eat human garbage rather than hunt. What the rangers have found is that when the bears are deprived of this source of food they revert back to their original behaviour paterns. You give the impression that the change in diet is the cause of death when the actual cause of death is being shot by a ranger because that particular bear did not revert back to it's original behaviour patern. The shooting of bears is a relative rare last resort after numerous trap and transport exercises have been found to be non productive.
Humans are not bears. Humans have an intellect.
It is with this intellect that we have formed ourselves into societies for the purpose of making all of our lives easier. The U.S. is a very rich country and it is the job of the government to administer the riches of our country in such a way that we all benifit not just the rich and powerful.

T.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:24:01 AM

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quote:

My friend just had a heart attack. I asked her and she said she had excellent care. She's not rich and she's a liberal, so I guess we are both really glad your wrong about that.

My friend just had a heart attack. She was poor and had no health insurance...unlike your friend my friend died.

T.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:28:19 AM

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I never said people don't need them, you're making that up.

You wrote that "government... should provide as much as fiscally possible for all of us" and that is part of what I am arguing against, in fact I wrote that "they are necessary".

I simply have empathy for the poor people who end up crushed by these often well intended but misguided welfare programs.

Some is needed, yes. A safety net, but not a hammock for the fit and healthy.

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:29:37 AM

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To all of our liberal friends out there who have missed Rush. He will be back on the air this coming Wednesday, Jan. 6th...Same time, same station..

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:31:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

But seriously, America's healthcare is the best MONEY CAN BUY! Like so much else in a Capitalist society, if you don't have money, you don't get it!

Why is this concept so hard to grasp?

It's not hard to grasp, just hard to accept.

Health care should not be the equivalent of deciding whether to buy a Big Mac or going out for a steak dinner.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/4/2010 10:33:00 AM >

(in reply to EPGAH)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:31:43 AM

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I'm here for them though, they can tune into me...

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To all of our liberal friends out there who have missed Rush. He will be back on the air this coming Wednesday, Jan. 6th...Same time, same station..

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:33:22 AM

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Would you like a hammock with that free government health care?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

It's not hard to grasp, just hard to accept.

Health care should not be the equivalent of deciding whether to buy a Big Mac or going out out for a steak dinner.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:37:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Would you like a hammock with that free government health care?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

It's not hard to grasp, just hard to accept.

Health care should not be the equivalent of deciding whether to buy a Big Mac or going out out for a steak dinner.

Can you name another G8 nation that doesn't provide free government healthcare? It doesn't appear to be bankrupting the Germans or the French.

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(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:51:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Don't you see that at some point its about buying votes, and rewarding failure?

How much can we reward failure and still survive.

Hmmmmm!

Where have I heard that phrase before?

Are you channeling Merc now?

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 10:59:06 AM

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The problem with the welfare programs - at least in the United States is that they are too lucrative and have too many loop holes. I used to work in the disability system and have several friends on it. Even with SSI the lowest form of disability they get $661 a month and when combined with another $600 in housing benefits which is $1,261. Minimum wage in the Washington state is $8.55 an hour and after taxes that only comes to about $1,250 which is less than the just two of the benefits they get.

I've sat down with several people on benefits and most or them would need to make $2500 to $3700 to replace their benefits. Why would they risk $3700 of benefits by going to work for $1250?

Currently, I'm also on benefits due to an injury and it makes no financial sense for me to return to work until the injury heals either even though there are jobs that I could probably do with some minor modifications to the work enviroment. My NET income is just as much as when I was working and I don't have to spend 40 hours a week plus another couple of hours for lunch and commute away from home.

< Message edited by CountrySong -- 1/4/2010 11:08:35 AM >

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(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:04:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Would you like a hammock with that free government health care?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

It's not hard to grasp, just hard to accept.

Health care should not be the equivalent of deciding whether to buy a Big Mac or going out out for a steak dinner.

Why is it you believe that health care is a luxury item and not a necessity of life?

Why is it so many conservatives believe in a strong military for the defense of our citizens but are willing to relegate those same citizens to their deaths if they can't afford health insurance?

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:07:44 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I never said people don't need them, you're making that up.

You wrote that "government... should provide as much as fiscally possible for all of us" and that is part of what I am arguing against, in fact I wrote that "they are necessary".

I simply have empathy for the poor people who end up crushed by these often well intended but misguided welfare programs.

Some is needed, yes. A safety net, but not a hammock for the fit and healthy.

Sanity I said IF you thought that way I did not make anything up.

Then we agree that many programs are mismanaged...but still necessary and should be changed...do I have this right?

But you seem to of ignored my post where I said the majority do not want, in your words, the hammock...but help...That is why I said I had more faith in the average American than you to be responsible in using the programs in question.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:12:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CountrySong

The problem with the welfare programs - at least in the United States is that they are too lucrative and have too many loop holes. I used to work in the disability system and have several friends on it. Even with SSI the lowest form of disability they get $661 a month and when combined with another $600 in housing benefits which is $1,261. Minimum wage in the Washington state is $8.55 an hour and after taxes that only comes to about $1,250 which is less than the just two of the benefits they get.

I've sat down with several people on benefits and most or them would need to make $2500 to $3700 to replace their benefits. Why would they risk $3700 of benefits by going to work for $1250?

Currently, I'm also on benefits due to an injury and it makes no financial sense for me to return to work until the injury heals either even though there are jobs that I could probably do with some minor modifications to the work enviroment. My NET income is just as much as when I was working and I don't have to spend 40 hours a week plus another couple of hours for lunch and commute away from home.

You will have to spell it out because I find it hard to believe anyone on welfare is making $44,400 dollars a year, as you claim.

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:15:46 AM

kdsub

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As I said with Sanity we all know there are problems with our programs that need to be fixed...I'm not against this...but they are not luxury programs they are very much needed. Nothing worse than working 40 years hard at low wages then to become disabled. The disabled need more than minimum wage equivalents…they will have many special needs to deal with their disabilities.

But I am not against those in the know to be sure the programs help rather than enable freeloaders.

But once again closing the program down because a few abuse it is not fair to the many that will die without it. Here in Missouri many died when a new Republican administration completely ended all social programs to save taxes without putting the decision to the people.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:16:36 AM

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Thats because you are switching terms from benefits (which include much more than cash payments) to welfare payments....your inability to keep up causes much of your confusion.

Trolls do like to switch terms and then demand an explanation. Its rather boring and ruins the debate

< Message edited by luckydawg -- 1/4/2010 11:17:48 AM >

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:18:00 AM

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I'm not ignoring the point, the "hand up" part I agree with, even subsistence allowances for those who are needy for good, solid reasons. But we have to be careful that people don't become unneccessarily dependent on it, thats no good for the individual and its no good for the nation or the economy overall.

Americans, Elbonians, nationality doesn't matter. We're all one species of higher mammalians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sanity I said IF you thought that way I did not make anything up.

Then we agree that many programs are mismanaged...but still necessary and should be changed...do I have this right?

But you seem to of ignored my post where I said the majority do not want, in your words, the hammock...but help...That is why I said I had more faith in the average American than you to be responsible in using the programs in question.

Butch

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:20:00 AM

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Really, all social programs in Missouri were completely ended?

When did that occur?, I would like to examine the results.

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:22:15 AM

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kdsub But you seem to of ignored my post where I said the majority do not want, in your words, the hammock...but help...That is why I said I had more faith in the average American than you to be responsible in using the programs in question.
The problem is that the help comes with the hammock. I don't have faith in Americans to not take advantage of the system when I've been in it and have read the statistics.
I also beleive that our government is a terrible manager of finances. Just look at the stimulus plan - 787 Billion dollars spent - 620,000 jobs created or saved. Do the math that comes to 1.25 million dollars a job. Can you say stupid government people?!!
I vote we turn the national health care plan over to Patch Adams at least he might have a clue about how to do it cost effectively. Our government sure as heck does not.

_____________________________

Cowboy clown and cowboy poet!
Jouster of windmills.
Knight in tarnished armor.
Rescuer of damsels who don't want to be rescued.
Dreamer of Impossible Dreams

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:24:47 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'm not ignoring the point, the "hand up" part I agree with, even subsistence allowances for those who are needy for good, solid reasons. But we have to be careful that people don't become unneccessarily dependent on it, thats no good for the individual and its no good for the nation or the economy overall.

Americans, Elbonians, nationality doesn't matter. We're all one species of higher mammalians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sanity I said IF you thought that way I did not make anything up.

Then we agree that many programs are mismanaged...but still necessary and should be changed...do I have this right?

But you seem to of ignored my post where I said the majority do not want, in your words, the hammock...but help...That is why I said I had more faith in the average American than you to be responsible in using the programs in question.

Butch

Funny...we both agree on what you just said but we talk about it in very different ways...that sound quite different.

I don't believe you can help people with good and solid reasons without raising the money to pay for it...yet you in all circumstances stand steadfast against any new welfare tax...I mean the cost of everything goes up.

Would you deny your mother help just because another abused a program? I'm all for tightening the reins on these programs but I am willing to pay the price for them….Are you if they are administered properly?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/4/2010 11:33:00 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CountrySong

kdsub But you seem to of ignored my post where I said the majority do not want, in your words, the hammock...but help...That is why I said I had more faith in the average American than you to be responsible in using the programs in question.
The problem is that the help comes with the hammock. I don't have faith in Americans to not take advantage of the system when I've been in it and have read the statistics.
I also beleive that our government is a terrible manager of finances. Just look at the stimulus plan - 787 Billion dollars spent - 620,000 jobs created or saved. Do the math that comes to 1.25 million dollars a job. Can you say stupid government people?!!
I vote we turn the national health care plan over to Patch Adams at least he might have a clue about how to do it cost effectively. Our government sure as heck does not.

The government is just people...no less capable then outside management. As I said I am all for tightening the reins...As for the stimulus program it is a completely different subject discussed over and over in other threads...In these threads there were also experts on both sides...Its success cannot be measured this quickly I’m afraid. We need to give it more time…As of now it is working to some degree but its problem is trying to solve too many past abuses at the same time. BUT they had no choice but to try.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to CountrySong)

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