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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 12:59:44 AM

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mnottertail Uh, united fruit.......GM, AIG, Banks, and more......yeah, they go out of business, they certainly aint robbing us?
At least their form of robbery ends or should have. By once again the government, that pillar for free enterprise and financial wisdom stepped in to save all those poor people who have become dependant on those companies and could not survive without their help. (please note extreme sarcasm)
The problem with the government is that it never goes out of business. It can keep robbing until it is forcible overthrown which is not going to happen in America because over 90% of the people are dependant on some form of entitlement - welfare, disability, medicare, medicaide, social security, etc. (Yes I'm part of that 90% right now but I won't be in five years. Lifes to short to let someone you don't like control your life.)
united fruit among others got us in a war.
Yes I totally agree war today is about profit. Perhaps if they tossed some of the profit my way I would be less vocal. I'm not gready just give me back all the money they took to finance their wars and compensate me for the loss of purchasing power over the past 40 years. Oh and if they could resurrect some of the boys who have fallen to protect their profits and return them to their families that would be nice too.

< Message edited by CountrySong -- 1/5/2010 1:10:33 AM >

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(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 5:29:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CountrySong

Moonhead Would you even get a transport subsidy and the free entertainment for disabled people at the same time? I'd assume the former is to help people who can't run a car to work, and positive discrimination hasn't made enough impact on the American employment market to make the disabled very desirable employees.
Yes in my state they get both. And the transport subsidy has nothing to do with work. It has to do with the ADA, public transportation, and the need to get to basic services. In my area we have three forms - bus discounts, private vans, and taxi script.

Fair enough.

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 8:15:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CountrySong

thompsonx You have still failed to come anywhere near the $44,400 you claimed.
I notice you also list items that while they may be available are not necessaily used.
You do not seem to be very clear as to what you are trying to say. Is welfare bad or good?
Is it possible that what you have seen is not representative of what goes on elsewhere?
That was just a mid-level example the utility, medical, and food benefits can go even higher. In fact in one program called the community protection program the benefits provided are over $100,000 per year. Also it was based on a single person. Single parents with kids get even more benefits.
It was part of my job to make sure they got all of those benefits so yes I'm sure they where using them all.
I'm saying that welfare based on my experience (which includeds clients, friends, relatives, and myself) provides very little incentive to work and get out of the system. It is financially safer to stay in the system than to risk you benefits by going to a minimum wage job. Which makes it bad from the standpoint that they are trapped in the system and taking money from others rather than supporting themselves.
I don't know what goes on in other states other than the west coast - WA, CA, OR, and ID.

Le me see...you will not provide validation for your $44,400 per year income for those on welfare but now you have ammended it upward to $100,000 per year. I am sure that there are many on these boards who do not make $100,000 tax free every year with out having to get out of bed so how bout you share the dope here. What does one have to do to hook on to this little scam. Are you sure that it is available to everyone or just to your imaginary friend.
You mentioned the transportation subsidy was part of ADA...are you saying that that subsidy is available to those without disabilities?
When you say there is no incentive for a person to get off of welfare because it pays more than minimum wage you seem to be saying that the poor and disadvantaged deserve no more than the bare minimum. That mind set would seem to mitigate against those persons ever progressing.
Whats wrong with giving the not rich the same kiind of welfare that Warren Buffet,Ted Turner,Bill Gates and Dick Chenny get?

T.

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 8:21:08 AM

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quote:

The problem with the government is that it never goes out of business. It can keep robbing until it is forcible overthrown which is not going to happen in America because over 90% of the people are dependant on some form of entitlement - welfare, disability, medicare, medicaide, social security, etc. (Yes I'm part of that 90% right now but I won't be in five years. Lifes to short to let someone you don't like control your life.)

Perhaps in your zip code social security is an intitlement but for the rest of the U.S. it is a voluntary insurance program. I do not think it is a very good one but it is what it is.
I am also going to need some sort of validation on that 90% figure.

T.

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 8:37:16 AM

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SSI and general welfare are very very different kettle of fish
Even in socialist toronto we have a huge differencce to what is available and limits and its nowhere near that.
Also a huge difference as to what is available and what is actually goin into someones pockets to live on per month.
I want a decent source

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 8:58:38 AM

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thompsonx Perhaps in your zip code social security is an intitlement but for the rest of the U.S. it is a voluntary insurance program. I do not think it is a very good one but it is what it is. I am also going to need some sort of validation on that 90% figure.
Try this - use your brain and try to figure out where I got the 90% from. Here is a hint - how many people could afford to retire and maintain their lifestyle if social security did not exist.
As for social security being a "voluntary" insurance program. Why don't you try NOT to pay social security if you are an employee or self employed and not a government employee who pays into the government retirement program or a member of the clergy.
I will agree that the original Social Security plan was supposed to be voluntary, only charged about 1%, and only covered about 60,000 people. But now it covers almost every working person in the United States and taxes up to 15%.
As for it being an entitlement. If the money you recieved from social security came as a direct result of the money you paid into social security and the benefit was tied to normal returns in the market I would agree that it might be real "insurance." But the truth is that it is not and never has been insurance. It was designed to be a social safety net and reduce unemployment by letting people retire who could not afford to so that younger people could take those jobs. Today it is an entitlement that opperates like a giant PONZIE scheme. The original people who put money in are paid by taking money from current employees. (About 25% of the payment do come from the trust fund but that will be bankrupt in 15 to 35 years depending on who you believe. At which point the government will have to - increase the taxes, reduce the benefits, or simply print more money to cover the deficit.)
In 1937 the original recipiants of social security had not paid much into it at all. The government simply gave them money for the rest of their lives and charged the people who where working to cover them. Even today is it is possible to get social security benefits even if you have NEVER paid into the system - look up SSI and SSDAC. Hence it is an entitlement program - not insurance.

< Message edited by CountrySong -- 1/5/2010 9:50:10 AM >

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 9:36:50 AM

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thompsonx Le me see...you will not provide validation for your $44,400 per year income for those on welfare but now you have ammended it upward to $100,000 per year. I am sure that there are many on these boards who do not make $100,000 tax free every year with out having to get out of bed so how bout you share the dope here. What does one have to do to hook on to this little scam. Are you sure that it is available to everyone or just to your imaginary friend.
Hey like I said I don't know what is available to people in states beyond the West Coast states.
As for proof - well if you are disabled and on SSI or SSDAC or SSDI or TANIF and low income then why don't you move to Washington and find out for yourself. Or you could just look it up on the internet since you certainly don't seem to believe my figures. Here's a hint on the $100,000 - I was talking about 1 program when I was talking about the $100,000. Now do the math slowly - take $44,000 + add the cost of a full time 24/7 aide at $16 an hour + add the cost of "job training" five days a week 8 hours a day at a cost of $25 an hour. (Actually you might save yourself some time and look up Community Protection Program costs there where several articals written on it and even a major series in one of the Seattle papers.)
You mentioned the transportation subsidy was part of ADA...are you saying that that subsidy is available to those without disabilities?
Yes - it is also available to some low income and elderly.
When you say there is no incentive for a person to get off of welfare because it pays more than minimum wage you seem to be saying that the poor and disadvantaged deserve no more than the bare minimum. That mind set would seem to mitigate against those persons ever progressing.
No what I'm saying is that they have no financial incentive to get out of the system. Just like retirees have no incentive to get off Social Security Retirement. Even though both programs take money away from people who have earned it and give it to people who have not. They have become dependant on those programs. (Yes I know that people pay FICA taxes for most of their working lives. But the returns that most people recieve exceed what they could have gotten if the money had been invested. And if I remember the information I've read in the past the money you put in is never invested it is used to pay Government expenses and Retirement Benefits for current retirees. For example, the first person to get Social Security only paid $25 into it and got over got over $20,000 paid back to her.[Look it up online.])
Whats wrong with giving the not rich the same kiind of welfare that Warren Buffet,Ted Turner,Bill Gates and Dick Chenny get?
Gosh I was not aware that Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Ted Turner where on welfare though I believe that Warren Buffet and Ted Turner do get social security.

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(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 9:42:20 AM

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The U.S. supreme court has ruled that social security is voluntary and that anyone who wants to may turn in their social security number and not pay into the system anymore.

T.

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 9:46:23 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

- take $44,000 + add the cost of a full time 24/7 aide at $16 an hour + add the cost of "job training" five days a week 8 hours a day at a cost of $25 an hour. (Actually you might save yourself some time and look up Community Protection Program costs there where several articals written on it and even a major series in one of the Seattle papers.)

But CS that still isn't showing where you got the $44,000 figure. I really find it hard to believe that those on Welfare are living that well.

As far as I can see you never addressed my question of how you think it's a good thing to collect Disability when you admit that you are capable of working provided adjustments are made. In my world that is stealing.

quote:

Currently, I'm also on benefits due to an injury and it makes no financial sense for me to return to work until the injury heals either even though there are jobs that I could probably do with some minor modifications to the work enviroment. My NET income is just as much as when I was working and I don't have to spend 40 hours a week plus another couple of hours for lunch and commute away from home.

< Message edited by zephyroftheNorth -- 1/5/2010 9:53:26 AM >

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 9:47:27 AM

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quote:

the first person to get Social Security only paid $25 into it and got over got over $20,000 paid back to her.[Look it up online.])

I bought a new car once and paid the insurance up for the year. I managed to total that car before I got a thousand miles on it. Not only did I get the full price of the car back from the insurance co. but I also got a rebate on my premium of 75% because of the short time the policy was in effect.
That is how insurance works.

T.

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 9:52:01 AM

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quote:

Gosh I was not aware that Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Ted Turner where on welfare though I believe that Warren Buffet and Ted Turner do get social security.

Perhaps you might want to educate yourself. Google up corporate welfare.
Since you do not have a job you certainly have the time.

T.

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 10:01:07 AM

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quote:

Hey like I said I don't know what is available to people in states beyond the West Coast states.
As for proof - well if you are disabled and on SSI or SSDAC or SSDI or TANIF and low income then why don't you move to Washington and find out for yourself. Or you could just look it up on the internet since you certainly don't seem to believe my figures. Here's a hint on the $100,000 - I was talking about 1 program when I was talking about the $100,000. Now do the math slowly - take $44,000 + add the cost of a full time 24/7 aide at $16 an hour + add the cost of "job training" five days a week 8 hours a day at a cost of $25 an hour. (Actually you might save yourself some time and look up Community Protection Program costs there where several articals written on it and even a major series in one of the Seattle papers.)

You do not find this in the least disingenuous?
Twenty five dollars an hour is fifty thousand a year. Your implication is that that 50K is the recipiants to spend on drugs and trashy women when in fact is tuition ment to get the person off of welfare. I would question the $25 per hour figure since I can go to Harvard for less than fifty thousand per year
The $16 per hour 24/7 equals $96,000 per year but again clearly this does not translate to a person getting all that money to spend on drugs and trashy women.

You seem to be bemoaning the fact that the system is not interested in getting people off of welfare so they can do minimum wage jobs. Why?
Would it not make more sense that they leave welfare with a job that would insure that they would not return to welfare?

T.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 1/5/2010 10:02:59 AM >

(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 10:12:18 AM

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thompsonx The U.S. supreme court has ruled that social security is voluntary and that anyone who wants to may turn in their social security number and not pay into the system anymore.
Like I said - try it! Unless you are 1) a member of the clergy or a religious group that object to SS and has another retirement program or 2) part of certain government retirement programs. Even then if your work for a company you will still have to pay social security tax. The Amish and others have been fighting it for years and still can not get around it unless they are self-employed.
Even the social security site states that it is not voluntary!

< Message edited by CountrySong -- 1/5/2010 10:24:45 AM >

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 10:26:42 AM

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thompsonx Twenty five dollars an hour is fifty thousand a year. Your implication is that that 50K is the recipiants to spend on drugs and trashy women when in fact is tuition ment to get the person off of welfare. I would question the $25 per hour figure since I can go to Harvard for less than fifty thousand per year
The $16 per hour 24/7 equals $96,000 per year but again clearly this does not translate to a person getting all that money to spend on drugs and trashy women.
I never said that they where spending it on drugs and trashy women. I'm saying they get a benefit that costs us money. Even though they could care for themselves if they had to. For example - why sould we spend the $16 an hour to watch someone for the rest of his or her life whos only crime was shoplifting?
I would not have any issue with job training if it real was meant to get people of of benefits and back to work. But the reality that I have seen is that is is just another social benefit that lets them get extra money without lowering or emilminating their other benefits. For example - one place in my state has DD client untangle headset cords. When there are no more headset cords they dump stickers out on the table and the clients sort them out. Then they take the sorted stickers and mix them up again and let the clients sort them out again. Some of the clients have been doing this for 10 or more years. How does that enable them to get off of benefits.

< Message edited by CountrySong -- 1/5/2010 10:37:19 AM >

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 10:46:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CountrySong

thompsonx Twenty five dollars an hour is fifty thousand a year. Your implication is that that 50K is the recipiants to spend on drugs and trashy women when in fact is tuition ment to get the person off of welfare. I would question the $25 per hour figure since I can go to Harvard for less than fifty thousand per year
The $16 per hour 24/7 equals $96,000 per year but again clearly this does not translate to a person getting all that money to spend on drugs and trashy women.
I never said that they where spending it on drugs and trashy women.

well then these wealthy welfare patients are truely fucktards, because thats where I'd be banking my money.

Ron

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 10:48:35 AM

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zephyroftheNorth But CS that still isn't showing where you got the $44,000 figure. I really find it hard to believe that those on Welfare are living that well.
As far as I can see you never addressed my question of how you think it's a good thing to collect Disability when you admit that you are capable of working provided adjustments are made. In my world that is stealing.
Zephy - In a later post I stated that medical and other benefits could be higher and also I based my calc (which is still over $35,000 a year) on SSI - the lowest of the benefits programs. Some people on SSDAC and SSDI get a lot more than $661. The highest I saw was over $1,800 a month. That is how I came up with the higher figure. But the main point is not how much they make but the fact that they have no incentive to get out of the system and stop taking money from us because at minimum wage they can not replace their benefits.
I did try to address your question but basically it comes down to this - when they are ready to pay for the re-training and accomidations I'll go back to work until then just call me a legal thief!

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 10:54:29 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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So what you are saying is that $44,000+ is possible but not what the average person on Welfare gets, yes?

But you yourself admit that there is work you could be doing but you choose not to. Soooo really you choose to get more money illegally rather than moving your ass to earn more by working. Maybe it isn't so cushy to actually work but welcome to the real world, most of us don't but we don't take money not entitled to. Yes there are those who screw the system and to be honest I don't see you as any better.

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 10:55:52 AM

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mnottertail well then these wealthy welfare patients are truely fucktards, because thats where I'd be banking my money.
Opps - I forgot on thing that the teacher from Social Security taught us. There is actually a loop hole in the back to work laws that would allow you to make as much money as you want and still retain your benefits. You have to set up your own company to do it. The real life example he used made an extra $50,000 to 75,000 a year and bought a $500,000 home all while getting full benefits! (I'll keep that one a secret for a while as I'm planning on teaching it to some people I know who are on benefits.)

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RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 11:04:58 AM

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zephyroftheNorth So what you are saying is that $44,000+ is possible but not what the average person on Welfare gets, yes?

But you yourself admit that there is work you could be doing but you choose not to. Soooo really you choose to get more money illegally rather than moving your ass to earn more by working. Maybe it isn't so cushy to actually work but welcome to the real world, most of us don't but we don't take money not entitled to. Yes there are those who screw the system and to be honest I don't see you as any better.
Yes - my original example was closer to $35,000. That is something most people can get if they know the system well enough.
Nope - there is nothing illegal about it! Until, they provide the accomidations and retraining it is my legal right to collect those benefits. Don't be mad at me I've told them all about it (in fact I told them about it back in July 2009) and rather than spend the $6,000 to $7,000 to do it they have left me on benefits while they do further research. Welcome to the world of entitlements and big government.

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Jouster of windmills.
Knight in tarnished armor.
Rescuer of damsels who don't want to be rescued.
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(in reply to CountrySong)

RE: Rush taken to hospital - 1/5/2010 11:06:55 AM

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yeah, right to work one thing and the under full retirement age another.

So, some high school or college professor having examined the laws in detail now have a sure fire little known secret for making a half a mill a year as a welfare patient. Does it involve no money down millionairing? If you can't explain it on the back of a matchbook, you got nothing.

I think we found the drawer with the tinfoil.

Ron

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(in reply to CountrySong)

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